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Thread: Big jake Troxel - Cornblossom

  1. #16
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    Tlagvga --

    there is a book --

    Dianna Everett, The Texas Cherokees: A People between Two Fires, 1819-1840 (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1990).

    =========

    I have read it alhto I don't have a copy. I got it through library loan. I recall it mentioning government reports of a count of just how many Indians remained East of the Mississippi -- the government kept these records. They seem to have ignored mixed-blood communities which still existed. The number was very low, just a handful. Since I don't have the book any more all I can say is I recall reading it in that book.

    I believe the numbers it gave was before 1840 however, in anticipation of how many would be moving west, date probably about 1830s.

    Vance

  2. #17
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    Hello Vance,

    From information we have accumulated, we have estimated that of the dominant Eastern Tribes more than 60% managed to intergrate into white society, and approximately 10-12% managed to survive on their own independent of white society, and gained official government recognition during the late 1800s and early 1900s. We know of more than 30 "safe houses" in Missouri and Eastern Kansas used to help Cherokee, Shawnee, Creek, and some lesser known tribal peoples integrate circa 1825 through 1860. A favorite Trail of Tears participant "escape point" was along the trail on the Gasconade and Niangua Rivers in several locations in Missouri. We also know there were at least three different trails used in Missouri other than the "published mapping" suggests.

    From available records nobody knows when some of the groups departed on their particular journey, or when they arrived in Oklahoma. What has always seemed so strange and odd to us, the fact that documentation of the Removal was so loosely controlled, with significant expenses paid out but unaccounted for in later records.

    The only quote by Andrew Jackson that I find to be true-

    " "I know what I am fit for. I can command a body of men in a rough way; but I am not fit to be President."

    He surely was not fit to be President for he was two-faced, and a poor example of a human being.

    Junaluska said,

    “Oh my God, if I had known at the Battle of Horseshoe what I now know, American history would have been differently written.”

    A sad day for everyone when Junaluska saved the butcher's life.
    Tlagvga

  3. #18
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    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chickamauga_researcher/

    Above is my Chickamauga history research site. It is open to everyone and anyone can post there. Linda, I am gonna post thre about this conversation on oyur forum, as people there would love to know about this conversation also. One has to know "boundaries", adn knonwing which emigrants were Cherokee and which were Piedmont Siouan, or descendants of the other tribes forcibly removed from (Pa/Oh South to Ga) will help people who have their genealogy mixed up understand it better.

    Do you have documentation for the "safe houses" and other things of which you speak? Would you mind sharing it?

    I have heard a number of people speak of Missouri Cherokee and all I could find was i.] records from American State papers/Indian Affairs of a camp/community begun during the Chickamauga Wars 1770s-1790s that remained until the 1811 New Madrid Earthquake, when the people moved to the White River, the Arkansas River near Dardanelles and other nearby locations. This was in the SE corner of Missouri.

    Doublehead was recorded there (SE Mo during the Chickamauga Wars 1770s-1790s) from time to time, by the way, but he was always passing through on the way to or from a raid on the settlers on the Cumberland and/or nearby Rivers.

    I have heard of a "Cherokee Civil War" in the 1840s but never seen it very well documented. I also heard during the Civil war some Cherokee might have moved to Missouri. However none of this is very well documented to the best of my knowledge, and I'd love to know where such documentation can be found.

    Documentation of these "safehouses" that you speak of would go a long way towards confirming the ancestry of some people. I'd love to know where this is found. Thanksk you for bringing it up here. I have been searching for somehting like this for some time, now.

    vance

    vance

  4. #19
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    Hello Vance,

    Most of our information originated from three sources. 1) The McLemore family. 2) Tracking the families of major Treaty signers beginning 1775 at Sycamore Shoals 3) Information from my grandfathers, and their fathers.

    Émigré family 1667 Frederick County, Maryland -
    Next 1721 moved to Bucks County, Pennsylvania-
    Next 1780 moved to Madison County, Kentucky-
    Next 1821 moved to Platte County, Missouri-
    Next 1844 moved to Johnson County, Missouri-
    Next 1875 Indian Nation Oklahoma Territory-

    Beginning with my ggg-grandfather who made the move to Madison County, Kentucky 1780 when age 25, my grandfathers and their sons supplied the US Military, settlers, and Indians alike without reservations concerning the “who” traded or sold to. Items readily supplied were tarps, tents, ropes, harness, saddles, wagons, oxen, mules, horses, and other paraphernalia necessary for life in a difficult environment. He built a facility to make the tarps, tents, and ropes, and employed people to make saddles, bridles, and harnesses. He was an entrapeneur. Locally he supplied salt, sugar, spices, flour (owned mill), corn meal, coffee, tea, dried or cured meat, fish, dried beans, and in season local melons and squash. He would trade with anyone and everyone for whatever they had to trade, furs, produce, and tobacco. Of course he would buy and pay with cash, and sell for cash. He did not trade liquor that we are aware of, but did a booming business with guns, gunpowder and lead, knives, axes, iron kettles, pots, pans, and cloth.

    His sons and daughters (thirteen of them) continued the business after he died 1825, and some of them moved to the area of Platte County Missouri, and they established another facility at Independence Missouri 1831. My gg-grandfather moved to Johnson County Missouri as soon as they shut down operations in Madison County Kentucky. From the three locations they supplied everyone without reservation. Several members of the family married mixed blood spouses, and remained neutral in the ongoing events. I am sure that must have been very trying on occasion. A band of Kiowa Indians killed my gg-grandfather, and a man who worked for him. His wife was the mother of my direct line gg-grandmother. They were killed at Blackney Ford on the Neosho River in what is today Neosho County, Kansas 12 May 1852. They had delivered supplies to a new Dirt Fort located just east of Dodge City Kansas, and were returning home. The father of my gg-grandmother who was killed married a 5/8 blood Shawnee-Cherokee-White Metis.

    According to my g-grandfather, Indians were Indians when he was US Marshall in Indian Territory Oklahoma 1875 – 1880. He married the 5/16 Metis daughter 1868, whose father was killed at Blackney Ford. My family has been associated with the Shawnee-Cherokee since 1670 or thereabouts, and we know the history that came forward is mostly what the White men wanted brought forward.

    We have among the McLemore information diaries beginning 1680, and the same for my family in England beginning the 1500s. Both families endured the Reformation, and they immigrated because of ongoing situations that become, unbearable. Because of the age of many of the items we prefer not to handle them if at all possible, so we must use the transcriptions made circa 1982 for my family by an aunt. The McLemore’s transcribed their information in the early 1900s. We have access to the Hobbs family collection of artifacts and documents including Vincent Hobbs who shot and killed Robert Benge. We have seen the Silver Engraved rifle sent to him by Virginia Governor Robert Brooke. In that collection there is nothing much of interest excepting you are a Hobbs researcher.

    Ask anyone what happened to Tachee, the son of Attakullakulla b. 1736. They might tell you he had a son named Tachee Jr. b. 1775, but nothing more. Fact is, he died in Audrain County, Missouri after 1828, and his family continued the Safe House they originated 1811 for another 27 years after he died. Because of the “rift” between father and son, Attakullakulla and Dragging Canoe, the Cherokee missed the boat following that family down line. We have direct knowledge of a fight between Ostenaco and Little Carpenter, and Ostenaco beat Attakullakulla rather severely. The truth is Ostenaco did not kill him because of his children. That was when Ostenaco moved from the Overhills to Georgia. The Cherokee claim Attakullakulla had eight children. He had ten; he had eight sons and two daughters with three different wives. All of the children survived to adulthood and took spouses.

    I guess the problem we have is the downright refusal of the Cherokee Nation West in its pragmatic rejection of everyone that did not make the Dawes. That alone is enough for us to not even want to be a member of that nation because the CNW turned their faces away from their own brethren. In the process, what was once a Great People, become a puppet belonging to the US Government puppeteers. This is one subject that makes my blood boil, for the historical facts have been hidden so long the damage done is probably irreversible in that, what is taught in classrooms today does not reflect the truth of events as they occurred, and specifically, we don’t have much use for the people who did these things to the Cherokee.

    More thoughts about Sequoyah, the picture you find with him wearing the turban, and holding the copy of the syllabary is not Sequoyah. Sequoyah had only stubs of fingers with one joint on both hands. They were cut off in the middle joint. His ears were cut off, and he was branded in the center of his forehead with the brand of traitors. He was also branded in the middle of his back between his shoulder blades with the same mark.

    Sequoyah fought with Dragging Canoe, and attended the Treaty of Holston 1791 with him. That was the treaty where Dragging Canoe made his famous speech, and refused to sign the treaty. Dragging Canoe repeatedly asked to “read the treaty” himself, but was refused on the basis, he could not read or write English.

    Dragging Canoe could write English better than most people today, and he could speak it with authority. They say he was one heck of a poker player.
    Tlagvga

  5. #20
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    If you have actual documents of undocumented Cherokee Indians in Missouri, that would be of great interest to many people who claim Cherokee blood and are from Missouri, but are told the Cherokee never settled there. Is this published anywhere? Would you mind sharing the transcription? It would mean a lot . . .

    As far as the Cherokee Nation goes, their hands are tied. The BIA forces all Indian people to jump through hoops for recognition. The Cherokee receive people of any blood quantum (for those on Dawes) and just about every other tribe has 1/8th blood quantum, or some have 1/4th. So their membership requirements are actually more lenient than most tribal governments.

    Dawes was really nothing more than a list of people who were eligible to be allotted 160 acres of land, and nothing more. It was a poor choice of citeria for tribal membership, in my opinion (which is worth its weight in hot air). I don't share your view towards the Cherokee Nation, but I do understand it, and know that there are many who feel that way.

    I too have relatives who were soldiers in Indian territory. Jarrett and James Wayland (they were brothers, and they are cousins to my direct ancestor, Sarah Ann Wayland Richey) -- they were members of "Beans Rangers" stationed at Fort Gibson in 1830, and their names still pop up on rolls of soldiers stationed there as late as 1836 (I have never checked beyond 1836). They went on the famous expedition with Levenworth, Dodge, Arbuckle, Jeff Davis, writer Washington Irving went on and wrote about this expedition as did the famous artist George Catlin (this is when/where Tahchee's (aka Captain William Dutch) portrait was painted), Tahchee went as a scount as did David Melton, who it was recorded is related to Doublehead. Shortly before this same timeframe George Catlin painted Sequoyah's portrait, the one you said is not of Sequoyah.

    The troops on this expedition were called "Dragoons" and they visited Kiowa, Comanche, and Wichita villages, and signed a peace treaty at a Wichita village where Elm Creek runs into the North Fork of the Red in present day Greek County, Ok, I believe it was 1834, a couple of years after the Cut-throat Gap Massacre of a couple of hundred Kiowa by the Osage. I presently live just 30 or so miles from the site of that massacre, and about 20 miles distance from the place the treaty was signed. It was the first treaty signed between the US govt and these Southern Plains tribes who still live around here.

    Vance

  6. #21
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    Hello Vance,

    In the course of our research we proved several surnames long associated with Shawnee and Cherokee as living in Missouri and Eastern Kansas. This is especially true prior to the Civil War circa 1850. Dominate names, Welch, Greenwood, White Carnes, Watts, Briggs, Gilliam, Lowery, Boone, McLemore, and Wayland. Check the 1850 Missouri Census for these names and look for origin state. While doing so, you will also notice Missouri births are common before statehood among those particular names. It is hard to prove which tribe people settling in Missouri and Kansas actually belonged to for many of the people traveled in mixed groups representing several tribes, and a lot of them the lesser known tribes that were “adopted” Shawnee, Cherokee, Creek and Chickasaw. It appears Missouri become home for a large group of Chickasaw after Kentucky freed up their lands in Western Kentucky 1817-1818.

    We can prepare a list of known Safe Houses, the locations, and dates they were active, which we would be willing to share. Several were located along the Trail of Tears. The mapping everyone uses for the Trail in Missouri is more or less worthless. There was no set single trail once leaving the Illinois border. In the fall of 1828 conditions in Missouri were very dry, and people had to travel where there was adequate water. That changed drastically in December when the Mississippi was moving so much ice many people were stranded for several weeks waiting to cross the River because of Ice. The Indians learned the trail would pass through Missouri not long after the Removal Order passed Congress because of scouting reports, and existing roads. Missouri circa 1838 had very few trees, with significant prairie land north of the Ozark Mountains to the Missouri River.

    Missouri become a state in 1821 and hundreds of thousands of acres were up for sale to anyone in 160-acre tracts. It seemed nobody paid much attention to neighbors and farm labor was in short supply, a win-win situation for everyone. To plot the basic Trail in Missouri, you can use any of the published maps; however, there was no set trail, and people had to travel near water when possible. Follow the Trail to Pulaski County in Missouri, from there the Trail deviated in several places. On December 9, 1838 one group was refused a place to camp near Waynesville in Pulaski County. If it were not for Colonel Swink and his wife who allowed them to camp on their property, most of them would have died. They were cold, hungry, and afoot because they ate their animals, and were without any blankets or warm clothing. The Swink family gave them enough walking beef, corn, and other provisions to finish the trip. Many people swore Colonel Swink went to the nearby fort at Rolla Missouri with two neighbors, and at gunpoint demanded enough blankets to keep the people from freezing to death. Colonel Swink was a retired veteran; his family stated he resigned his commission because of the Indian Removal act, and openly stated if he ever saw Andrew Jackson again he would shoot him on sight. We have no documentation concerning the events at Waynesville Missouri December 9, 1838, but we believe them to be true. Very few people know the Removal began much earlier than 1838. We have documented the first known group to travel the Trail through Missouri took place 1837, and was under the command of conductor, B.B. Cannon escorting 365 persons.

    This may not be the place for this; however, we think these types of documentaries are needed by many researchers; therefore, a few comments. Without this type of reference material people simply will never understand the terrible conditions the people who made these trips endured. Why in the world would anyone plan a departure for a journey known to take several months during the month of October? We know why, and we fully understand why. Such planning was nothing less than calculated and planned genocide a people specifically designed to reduce their numbers for easier management once they arrived at destination.

    What follows in the next three posts is the Chronological Record submitted by B. B. Cannon, Condudtor.



    -----------------------------------------
    Tlagvga

  7. #22
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    Post 1 of 3........

    Chronology of the First Wagon Train of Cherokee to pass through Missouri on the Trail of Tears starting October 13, 1837

    Cannon, B.B. - 1837 - Cherokee Removal
    B. B. Cannon’s Journal of Occurrences with a Party of Cherokee Emigrants. October 1837
    A Journal of occurrences in conformity with the Revised Regulations No 5. Paragraph 8. kept by B. B. Cannon, Conductor of a Party of Emigrating Cherokee Indians, put in his charge, at the Cherokee Agency East, by Genl. N. Smith, Superintendent of Cherokee removals, on the 13th day of October 1837.
    Oct. 13th, 1837.
    Sent the wagons to the Indian encampment and commenced loading, in the evening.
    Oct. 14th, 1837.
    Completed loading the wagons and crossed the Highwassee river at Calhoun, encamped, at 5 o’c. P.M.
    Oct. 15th, 1837.
    Marched the Party at 8 o”c. A.M. halted and encamped at Spring Creek, at 11 o’c A.M. where Genl. Smith mustered the Party, which consumed the remainder of the day, 5 miles to day.
    Oct. 16th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted and encamped at Kelly’s ferry on Tennessee river, at 4 o’c. P.M. Issued corn & fodder, Corn meal & bacon, 14 miles to day.
    Oct. 17th, 1837.
    Commenced ferrying the Tennessee river at 8 o’c. A.M., having been detained until the sun dispelled the fog, every thing being in readiness to commence at day light, completed ferrying at 4 o’c. P.M. and reached little [p. 2] Richland creek at 8 o’c. P.M.., where the Party had been directed to halt and encamp, Issued corn & fodder, 7 miles to day.
    Oct. 18th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c. A.M., one of the provision wagons oversat, detained a half hour, no damage done, ascended Wallens ridge, (the ascent 2 miles) halted at Ragsdale’s at 1 ½ o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn-meal & bacon, 10 miles further to water, all wearied getting up the mountain, 5 miles today.
    Oct. 19th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c. A. M. descended the mountain, halted at 2 o’c. P.M., at Sequachee river near Mr. Springs, Issued corn & fodder, 11 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 20th, 1837.
    Marched at 6 ½ o’c. A.M., ascended the Cumberland mountain, halted at Mr. Flemings, ¾ past 3 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn meal & Bacon, 14 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 21st, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c. A.M., descended the mountain, halted at Collins river, 4 1/r o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, the Indians appear fatigued this evening. 13 miles today—road extremely rough.
    Oct. 22nd, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M. passed through McMinnville, halted at Mr. Britts ½ past 12 o’c. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn meal & Bacon, Sugar [p. 3] and coffee to the waggoners & Interpreters, no water for 12 miles ahead, procured a quantity of corn meal and bacon to day. ## 7 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 23rd, 1837.
    Marched at 6 ½ o’c. A.M., Capt. Prigmore badly hurt by a wagon horse attempting to run away, halted at Stone river near Woodbury, Te. ½ past 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, 20 miles to day.
    Oct. 24th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c. A. M., halted at Mr. Yearwoods, 4 o’c. P.M., rained last night and to day, Issued corn & fodder, corn meal and bacon, 15 miles to day.
    Oct. 25th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., buried Andrew’s child at ½ past 9 o’c. A.M., passed through Murfreesborough, halted at Overall’s creek, 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn and fodder, 14 miles to day.
    Oct. 26th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., passed through three turnpike Gates, halted at Mr. Harris, 3 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn meal & bacon, 16 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 27th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c. A.M., passed through two Turn-

    ## I would remark here that all supplies, both of forage and subsistence, were purchased, and Pikages, toll and ferriages contracted for on the way west by a contracting agent, and paid for on my request by Doct. Reynolds, the [continued at the bottom of page 4]

    [p. 4] pike gates, and crossed the Cumberland river on the Nashville toll bridge, at Nashville, halted at Mr. Putnams ½ past 3 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, Isaac Walker and [sic] emigrant belonging to the Party, overtook us. Mr. L. A. Kincannon, contracting agent, left us, and returned home, having, on the way, near McMinnville signified his intention, verbally, to do so, assigning as the reason the delicate situation of his health, 13 miles to day.
    Oct. 28th, 1837.
    Rested for the purpose of washing clothes, repairing wagons, and shoeing horses. Reese, Starr and others of the emigrants visited Genl. Jackson who was at Nashville, Issued corn & fodder, corn-meal and bacon, Assigned Mr. E. S. Curry to supply the place of Mr. Kincannon.
    Oct. 29th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 ½ o’c. A.M., halted at Long creek ½ past 2 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, 13 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 30th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 ½ o’c A.M., halted at Little red river ½ past 5 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn-meal & Bacon, 18 ½ miles to day.
    Oct. 31st, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted at Graves, Ken. 3 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, 16 miles to day.

    Disbursing Agent for the Party.

    [p. 5]
    Nov. 1st, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c., A.M., buried Ducks child, passed throug [sic] Hopkinsville, Ken, halted at Mr. Northerns ½ past 5 o’c. P.M. Encamped & issued corn & fodder, Flour and bacon, 19 miles to day.
    Nov. 2nd, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M. and halted one mile in advance of Mr. Mitchersons, 3 o’o. P.M., encamped and issued corn and fodder.
    Nov. 3rd, 1837.
    David Timpson and Pheasant, emigrants belonging to the party, came up last night in the stage, having been heretofore enrolled, and mustered, marched at 8 o’c. A.M., passed thro’ Princeton, Ken., halted and encamped near Mr. Barnetts, at ½ past 4 o’c. P.M. Issued corn & fodder, Flour & bacon, 17 miles to day.
    Nov. 4th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted and encamped at Threlkelds branch, 4 o’c, P.M., Issued corn & fodder, 15 miles to day.
    Nov. 5th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., passed thro’ Salem, Ken., halted and encamped at another Mr. Threlkelds branch at 4 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, corn meal, a small quantity of flour, and bacon, 13 ½ miles to day.
    Nov. 6th, 1837.
    Marched at 7 o’c. A.M., arrived at Berry’s ferry (Golconda opposite on the Ohio river) 9 o’c. A.M., every thing in readiness to commence ferrying, but [p. 6]
    Prevented on account of the extreme high winds and consequent roughness of the river, which continued the remainder of the day, encamped in the evening, Issued corn & fodder, 5 ½ miles to day.
    Nov. 7th, 1837.
    Commenced ferrying at ½ past 5 o’c. A.M., moved the Party as it crossed one mile out and encamped. Completed crossing 4 o’c. P.M., all safely, Issued corn & fodder, corn meal & bacon, 1 mile to day.
    Nov. 8th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., Mr. Reese & myself remained behind, and buried a child of Seabolts, overtook the Party, halted and encamped at Big Bay creek, 4 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, (James Starr & wife, left this morning with two carry-alls to take care of, and bring on three of their children, who were too sick to travel—with instructions to overtake the Party as soon as possible without endangering the lives of their children.)—15 miles to day.
    Nov. 9th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c., A.M., halted and encamped at Cash creek, ½ past 4 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, corn meal & Bacon, 15 miles to day.
    Nov. 10th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., were detained 2 hours on the way making a bridge across a small creek, halted at Cypress creek, 4 o’c., P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, & salt, 14 miles to day. [p. 7]
    Nov. 11th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c, A.M., passed thro’ Jonesboro’ Ill., halted and encamped at Clear creek, in the Mississippi river bottom, ½ past 3 o’c. P. M., Issued corn & fodder, corn meal & bacon—13 miles to day, issued sugar & coffee to the wagoners, & interpreters.
    Nov. 12th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., arrived at Mississippi river, 10 o’c. A.M., Commenced ferrying, at 11 o’c. A. M., directed the party to move a short distance as they crossed the river, and encamp, Issued corn & fodder, Starr came up, the health of his children but little better, Richard Timberlake and George Ross, overtook us and enrolled, attached themselves to Starrs family.
    Nov. 13th, 1837.
    Continued ferrying from 7 o’c. until 10 o’c. A.M., when the wind arose and checked our progress, 3 o’c. P.M., resumed and made our trip, suspended at 5 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, corn meal & bacon, buried another of Duck’s children to day.
    Nov. 14th, 1837.
    Crossed the residue of the Party, Marched at 10 o’c. A. M., halted and encamped at Mr. William’s, Issued corn & fodder, sickness prevailing, 5 miles to day.
    Tlagvga

  8. #23
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    Post 2 of 3

    Nov. 15th, 1837.
    Rested for the purpose of washing &c., Issued corn and fodder, corn meal and bacon.
    Nov. 16th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., left Reese, Starr and fam- [p. 8] ilies on account of sickness in their families, also James Taylor (Reese’s son in law) and family, Taylor himself being very sick, with instructions to overtake the Party, passed thro’ Jackson, Mo., halted & encamped at widow Roberts on the road via Farmington &c., Issued corn only, no fodder to be had, 17 miles to day.
    Nov. 17th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at White Water creek 4 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, corn meal and beef, 13 miles to day.
    Nov. 18th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted and encamped at Mr. Morand’s 5 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder, Flour & bacon, 16 miles to day.
    Nov. 19th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted and encamped ½ past 4 o’c. P.M., at Wolf creek, Issued corn & fodder, 14 miles to day.
    Nov. 20th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., passed thro’ Farmington, Mo., halted at St. Francis river, 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, Flour & beef, 15 miles to day.
    Nov. 21st, 1837.
    A considerable number drunk last night obtained the liquor at Farmington yesterday, had to get out of bed about midnight to quell the disorder, a refusal by several to march this morning, alledging [sic] that they would wait for Starr & Reese to come up at that place, Marched at 8 o’c., A. M. in defiance of threats and attempts to intimidate, none remained behind, [p. 9] passed through Caledonia, halted at Mr. Jacksons, encamped and issued corn & fodder, beef and Bacon, mostly bacon, 14 miles to day.
    Nov. 22nd 1837.
    Marched 8 ½ o’c. A.M., pass through the lead mines (or Courtois diggings), halted at Scotts, 4 o’c. P.M., issued corn, fodder, and corn meal, 13 miles to day.
    Nov. 23rd, 1837.
    Rested for the purpose of repairing wagons, shoeing horses, washing &c., Starr, Reese, and Taylor came up, the health of their families in some degree improved, Issued corn & fodder, and beef, weather very cold.
    Nov. 24th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 ½ o’c. A.M., Considerable sickness prevailing, halted at Huzza creek, 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, 12 miles to day.
    Nov. 25th, 1837.
    Doct. Townsend, officially advised a suspension of our march, in consequence of the severe indisposition of several families, for a time sufficient for the employment of such remedial agents as their respective cases might require. I accordingly directed the Party to remain in camp and make the best possible arrangement for the sick, In the evening issued corn & fodder, flour and beef.
    Nov. 26th, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness continuing and increasing, Issued corn & fodder, beef & corn meal. [p. 10]
    Nov. 27th, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness continuing to increase, Issued corn & fodder, Bacon & corn meal.
    Nov. 28th, 1837.
    Moved the Detachment two miles further to a Spring and School-house, obtained permission for as many of the sick to occupy the school-house as could do so, a much better situation for an encampment than on the creek, sickness increasing, Issued corn & fodder.
    Nov. 29th, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness still increasing, buried Corn Tassels child to day, Issued corn & fodder.
    Nov. 30th, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness continuing, Issued corn and fodder.
    December 1st, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness abating, Issued cor and fodder, Bacon & corn meal, Buried Oolanheta’s child to day.
    Decr. 2nd, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness abating, Issued corn & fodder, Beef & corn meal.
    Decr. 3rd, 1837.
    Remained in camp, sickness abating, Issued corn & fodder.
    Decr. 4th, 1837.
    Marched at 9 o’c. A.M., Buried George Killian, [p. 11] and left Mr. Wells to bury a waggoner, (black boy) who died this morning, scarcely room in the wagons for the sick, halted at Mr. Davis, 12 past 4 o.c. P.M., had to move down the creek a mile off the road, to get wood, Issued corn & fodder and corn meal, 11 miles to day.
    Decr. 5th, 1837.
    Marched 9 o’c. A.M., left two waggoners (black boys) at Mr. Davis sick, this morning, halted at the Merrimack river, ½ past 3 o’c. P.M., Encamped and issued corn and fodder, corn meal and beef, 10 miles to day.
    Decr. 6th, 1837.
    Marched at 9 o’c. A.M., passed Masseys Iron works, halted at Mr. Jones’ ½ past 3 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn and fodder, 12 miles to day.
    Decr. 7th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 ½ o’c., A.M., Reese’s team ran away, broke his wagon and Starrs carry-all, left him and family to get his wagon mended, at 17 miles, and to overtake if possible, halted at Mr. Bates son, 5 o’c., P.M., encamped and issued corn and fodder, corn-meal & bacon, 20 miles to day.
    Decr. 8th, 1837.
    Buried Nancy Bigbears Grand Child, marched at 9 o’c. A.M., halted at Piney a small river, ½ past 3 o’c. P.M., rained all day, encamped and issued corn only, no fodder to be had, several drunk, 11 miles to day. [p. 12]
    December the 9th, 1837.
    Marched at 9 o’c. A.M., Mayfields wagon broke down at about a mile left him to get it mended and overtake, halted at Waynesville, Mo. 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, beef & corn meal, weather extremely cold, 12 ½ miles to day.
    Decr. 10th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted at the Gasconade river 4 o’c. P.M., Issued corn & fodder. 14 miles to day.
    Decr. 11th, 1837.
    Marched at ½ past 8 o’c. A. M., halted at Sumner’s 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder. 15 miles to day.
    Decr. 12th, 1837.
    Marched at 9 o’c. A.M., halted one mile in advance of Mr. Parkes at a branch, 4 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, corn meal, beef and a small quantity of bacon. 14 miles to day.
    Decr. 13th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 ½ o’c. A. M., halted at a branch near Mr. Eddington’s, 4 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, Reese & Mayfield came up, 13 ½ miles today.
    Decr. 14th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at James fork of White river, near the road but which [p. 13] does not cross the road, 3 o’c. P. M., Mr. Wells taken sick, Issued corn meal, corn & fodder, 15 ½ miles to day.
    Decr. 15th, 1837.
    Joseph Starrs wife had a child last night. Marched at 8 ½ o’c. A. M., halted at Mr. Danforths, 1 ½ P. M., waggoners having horses shod until late at night, encamped & issued corn & fodder & beef. 10 ½ miles to day.
    Decr. 16th, 1837.
    Issued sugar & coffee to the waggoners & Interpreters this morning, Marched at 9 o’c. A. M., passed through Springfield Mo., halted at Mr. Clicks, 4 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder and corn-meal. 12 miles to day. (left Mr. Wells)
    Decr. 17th, 1837.
    Snowed last night, Buried Eleges wife and Chas. Timberlakes son (Smoker), Marched at 9 o’c. A. M., halted at Mr. Dyes 3 o’c P.M., extremely cold weather, sickness prevailing to a considerable extent, all very much fatigued, encamped and issued corn & fodder, & beef. 10 miles to day.
    Decr. 18th, 1837.
    Detained on account of sickness, Doct. Townsend sent back to Springfield for medicines, buried Dreadful Waters this evening, Issued corn and fodder & corn meal. [p. 14]
    Decr. 19th, 1837.
    Detained to day also on account of sickness, cold intense, Issued corn & fodder and beef.
    Decr. 20th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 ½ o’c. A. M., halted at Mr. Allens ½ past 3 o’c. P. M., encamped, and issued corn & fodder & corn meal. 15 miles to day.
    Decr. 21st, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at Lockes on Flat creek, 12 past 3 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, & beef. 15 miles to day.
    Decr. 22nd, 1837.
    Buried Goddards Grand child, Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at McMurtrees, 3 o’c. P.M., encamped and issued corn & fodder and corn-meal. 15 miles to day.
    Decr. 23rd, 1837.
    Buried Rainfrogs daughter (Lucy Redstick’s child). Marched at 8 o’c. A. M. halted at Reddix, 3 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder & beef. 16 miles to day.
    Decr. 24th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at the X hollows, had to leave the road ¾ of a mile to get water, 3 o’c. P. M., Issued corn & fodder, Pork and corn meal. 15 miles to day.
    Decr. 25th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., took the right hand [p. 15] road to Cane hill, at Fitzgeralds, halted a half mile in advance of Mr. Cunninghams at a branch, 3 o’c. P. M., Issued corn & fodder and salt Pork. 15 ½ miles to day.
    Tlagvga

  9. #24
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    Post 3 of 3

    Decr. 26th, 1837.
    Marched at 8 o’c. A.M., halted at James Coulters on Cane hill, Ark. ½ past 3 o’c P. M., encamped and issued corn meal, corn & fodder, 16 ½ miles to day.
    Decr. 27th, 1837.
    Buried Alsey Timberlake, Daughter of Chas Timberlake, Marched at 8 o’c. A. M., halted at Mr. Beans, in the Cherokee nation west, at ½ past 2 o’c. P. M., encamped and issued corn & fodder, Fresh pork & some beef. 12 miles to day.
    Decr. 28th, 1837.
    The Party refused to go further, but at the same time pledged themselves to remain together until the remuster was made by the proper officer, for whom I immediately sent an express to Fort Gibson, they alleged at the same time that the refusal was in consequence of the sickness now prevailing and that only.
    Doct. Reynolds Disbursing agent for the Party dismissed the wagons from further service, Buried another child of Chas Timberlakes, and one which was born (untimely) [p. 16] yesterday of which no other account than this is taken, Jesse Half Breeds wife had a child last night, issued Pork, corn meal and flour, corn & fodder for to day.
    Lieut. Van Horne arrived late this evening, having missed the express on the way.
    Decr. 29th, 1837.
    Remustered the Party, Issued a small quantity of corn meal & Pork yet on hand.
    Decr. 30th, 1837.
    Completed the Rolls of Remuster, turned over the Party to Lieut. Van Horne, and dismissed my assistants.
    Respectfully submitted B. B. Cannon
    Source: National Archives Record Group 75, Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Letters Received, Cherokee Emigration, 1837, C-553, filed in Special Case 249
    ----------

    My apologies to everyone, but this is about all this old mind can take today.

    Vance, I will try to finish responding to you later today.
    Tlagvga

  10. #25
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    waDO! Thank you very much.

    You mentioned Cherokee and Shawnee in Missouri and I saw you also mentioned Wayland. Since my Wayland ancestors migrated to Arkansas in 1815 and some are found in IT as early as 1830, I am curious about those in Missouri in those times also. I've seen that there were Waylands in Missouri also but I am not sure how they relate to mine. I elieve those in Missouri CAN trace their Caucasian ancestry to the Germanna Colony (1715 or 20 or so settlements of Germans in western Virginia). There was a known Saponi Indian settlement on Gov. Spotswoods lands nearby. As with mos of my research, I just "think" but can not prove that's where my Waylands came from as well. I can say mine were near there, however, 4 or 5 counties away in the 1790s, ut that's as close as I can trace them at present to the germanna Colony.

    You are right -- many groups migrated through Missouri on their way to Ok and Ks and some down to NE Tx as well.

    I will certainly be looking through this in the next few days. I have to work 10 more days in a row before i get another day off, so don't worry if I don't post much -- I'll get to it as time permits. .

    donadagohv --

    vance

    ps -- I reread my last post -- I meant "Greer Co.", not "Greek Co." It might e possible I am living in denial -- always blame my keyboard -- gonna have to start thinkin' maybe a little bit of my spelling problems might be partly my fault . . .

  11. #26
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    Jun 2005
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    SW Missouri
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    Hello Vance,

    Capt. William Dutch was a different person than Tachee the son of Attakullakulla, and people confused the two long ago. Capt. William Dutch d Mar 14, 1848, and was much younger than Tachee, son of Attakullakulla.

    Before the Revolution kicked off 1776, and before winter 1775, Cherokee and Shawnee from the lower towns of Running Water, Nickajack, and Crowtown put together a force of about 300 warriors and attacked the French lead mines in SE Missouri. We are not sure but we think Peter Cornstalk led the war party. That would have been before whites murdered his father while in captivity at Point Pleasant West Virginia. Lead was in short supply over a broad area. Supposedly it was the Spanish of Florida who outfitted the warriors for the attack, but we have no evidence to support the premise. Logically that makes sense because the Spanish wanted Shawnee and Cherokee to move west to keep the French in check about that time, and to serve as a buffer between Spain and France in the area.

    Successful in the attack, Cherokee and Shawnee did not move there immediately, but maintained a protective force, and mined lead until 1785. The Treaty of Hopewell changed the situation drastically, the Shawnee and Cherokee quickly populated the area with families who rejected the Treaty. It was at that time when Springfrog moved many of his combined Cherokee and Shawnee people into Arkansas. This essentially would be the first formal “voluntary removal” from traditional lands by Cherokee and Shawnee allied with them. Springfrog, who was aka “Dustu”, built the first documented village in Arkansas 1785. By 1795 Springfrog and his people were living in Texas. Springfrog’s group would later be nearly wiped out by smallpox 1806.

    Chief Duwali of Hiwassee (NC) moved to Arkansas 1795, and set up first on the St. Francis River, staying there until the New Madrid earthquake 1811, after which he moved his people to the White River for a few months, then to the south bank of the Arkansas River and stayed until 1819 when he moved his people to Texas. In 1809, Talontuskee and Chief Takatoka settled in near the White River, which was where Duwali took his people after the New Madrid earthquake. Talontuskee become the principal Chief of the mixed villages of Cherokee and Shawnee peoples south of the Arkansas River. Simultaneously 1809 Walt Webber (son of Capt Will Webber) and another mixed band of Shawnee and Cherokee joined Talontuskee. Walt became a principal Chief 1824. Walt married the sister of Stand Watie. John Jolly, brother of Talontuskee moved another mixed band of Cherokee and Shawnee to the same area around 1817. He would become a principal Chief the following year 1818.

    Prior to these migrations several mixed bands of Shawnee and Cherokee had already migrated to either Arkansas or Missouri. They were primarily people from what is known as the Overhills and Valley towns, which were totally destroyed by the Shelby Raids 1777 through 1779 who got tired of the constant running, and decided to find a quieter more peaceful existence. These people were some of the first to abandon their former ways of life and accepted the opportunity to assimilate into White society. It is my opinion these are the people of our origins for many of us were mixed bloods that could adapt. Our blood quantum often was less than ¼, and many of us were eyed of differing colors, as was our hair.

    In 1837 Missouri, Kansas, and the Upper Missouri River basin suffered a deadly outbreak of smallpox, which is thought to have killed approximately 50% of then living Natives in the general area.

    George Guess was located in Texas no later than 1817, and of that there cannot be much doubt. It is not possible that Nathaniel Gist was the father of George Guess. At the exact time George Guess was conceived, Nathaniel Gist was an Army Captain serving in the Byrd and Stephen regiment of Virginia Volunteers, which was on the march against the Cherokee Nation. Research can prove specific facts.

    George Guess b. 1760 or 1761, or some people favor a date of 1764.

    Wurtea Watts married 1st Robert Due (Chief Jolly) 1758 and had son Chief John Jolly (John Due) 1759.

    Wurtea Watts married 2nd Bloody Fellow 1760 and had son Chief Tahlonteeskee (correct spelling) 1761.

    Wurtea Watts married 3rd John Benge 1761 and had children.

    Martin (Tail) b. 1761
    Chief Robert b. 1763
    Lucy b. 1768
    Naquisi b. 1769
    Tashliske b. 1770
    Richard b. 1774

    Tahlonteeskee was born either January or February 1761, and Martin Benge was born December 1761.

    Wurtea Watts was not the mother of George Guess, or Sequoyah, or the man who wrote the Cherokee Syllabary. Nathaniel Gist was not the father of George Guess, or Sequoyah or the man who wrote the Cherokee Syllabary. The engagement of Nathaniel Gist as an Army Captain did not end until 1763. He immediately returned to Virginia and his white wife and family.

    George Guess, aka Sequoyah was shot at, wounded, and died from the wounds suffered while crossing the Brazos River during the Relocation of Indigent peoples then living in the State of Texas. The record of George Guess’ death is still held by the State of Texas in the Archives of the Republic of Texas President Mirabeau B. Lamar, who succeeded President Sam Houston 1st President of the Republic of Texas.

    Texas Militia (Rangers?) shot George Guess under orders of President Lamar on June 5, 1839. He died under guard June 9, 1839. After George Guess was killed his people went to Mexico where many other Cherokee-Shawnee found refuge.

    When Texas became a republic in 1836, President Sam Houston sought peace with all Texas Indians. He enlisted the services of the friendly Delaware in protecting the frontier from hostile western tribes. In 1837 Delaware scouts accompanied several ranger corps as they patrolled the western line of settlement. Houston also worked to secure the land claims of the immigrant tribes, without success. Houston's successor to the presidency, Mirabeau B. Lamar, considered the immigrant tribes to be unauthorized intruders who threatened public safety and illegally occupied Texas land. He ordered them to be expelled from Texas. His removal policy culminated in the Cherokee War (1839), a conflict that involved all the immigrant bands of every tribe. Result of the Removal Order by President Lamar resulted in the final war fought for Freedom by the two tribes.

    Out of respect for both peoples and their friends, I use the phrase,

    The Great Allied Brotherhood of Cherokee-Shawnee, and Friends

    The Shawnee first came to Missouri because of the Miami, and we have two pieces of information of the Chartier family (French) of which, indicates the Shawnee were in northeastern Missouri several times before 1650, and perhaps before 1600. The French were knowledgeable about the Osage, displaced Huron, and tribes forced to migrate by the Iroquois during the Beaver Wars. Unfortunately only a few people know much about the French concerning their fur trading activities before 1700, and getting hands on items of proof is terribly difficult. Everyone says the Spain was first to explore the Americas, but we are not so sure about that. Spain might have been first to allow news of travels by Spanish explorers, but we know of graves found and conclusively dated to 1520 along the White River in Canada not far from Mobert, in Ontario Province. The graves were found 1978 by students looking for Indian artifacts. They found an engraved ring with a man’s name on it, and a sword scabbard belonging to the same man. Both items were noted in his estate at time of probate in France 1537.
    Tlagvga

  12. #27
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    That's interesting. The Tahchee/Dutch/Tatsi/Datsi I was talking about was the last Cherokee War Chief wo did live with or just to the North of Duwali in Tx for about 3 years I think it was. He was killed in the 1840s when his horse kicked him accidentally. I knew he couldn't be the same man in earlier records -- people don't lie that long! i didn't know anything about the earlier one, but the latter one I have read about some, the one called Dutch. Dutchess Creek was named after him. It flows into the Canadian River in Ok and that is where he died. It was originally "Dutch's Creek" but that evolved into the present "Dutchess Creek". his is per well-known Cherokee historian and author, Robert Conley.

    It is hard for me to believe what you are saying about Sequoyah though. He is said to have had a son who was killed in Texas, I forget what his name was. The story of his trip to Mexico is well documented by The Worm in the Cherokee Phoenix in the 1840s. I'm like doubting Thomas, and I need to see and read the records of the things you speak of concerning Sequoyah to believe them.

    I tend to think unorthodox claims must be accompanied with documentation that is undisputable.

    There is one website that talks about "Spring Frog" a lot -- on Comanche Lodge, and that fella is full o' lots o' hot air. He's had more complaints of falsifying genealogy than just about anyone I know of. And this is complaints by well known genealogists. I really don't know much about Spring Frog, tho.

    Muscle Shoals (NW Al near the bend in the Tennessee River) was another jumping off point where a Creek/Chickamauga community grew up. It was from this location that the story of Duwali killing some white families, and fleeing to SE Mo arose. His is often called the first perminant settlement (other than warring parties) west of the Mississippi. This was 1794 I think it was. What documentation do you have of Spring Frog in SE Mo earlier with a permanent settlement, and not just a raiding party, many of which wre there between the 1770s and the mid 1790s?

    Please forgive me, but I learned on this forum (that I have taken to my Chickamauga project) that I can believe what I can document. I can speculate only about the things I can not document. I noticed when people talk of Cherokee history they tend to state this or that happened and never document it. I don't know why that is. I noticed here people try to document what they are saying. It is a lot easier for me to follow it that way. I might not always do it but I try to, to document what I say. If you can provide documentation for what you are talking about -- cite author, title and whatever else you have -- page, publisher/printer, et cetera, it can be followed more easily. Such comments require more documentation since they go against the grain of other well documented events.

    I gotta go to work in 1/2 hour (midnight) so I can't finish this till later. I appreciate your posts. wado.

    vance

  13. #28
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    Jun 2005
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    Hello Vance,

    The first problem anyone faces when attempting to document a person of the past is the name. In the case of Sequoyah, the word is meaningless in Cherokee, and every other Native Tongue we know even a snippet about. If we begin from here, we are looking for evidence to support the historical record, that is, the record we know about, have learned from the books. But, what if that learned from the books is not true?

    Do you honestly believe a man such as Sequoyah, could die without people knowing about such an event? What about his estate? According to the record, Sequoyah was an accomplished silversmith by trade. What evidence do we have this is true? Supposedly he moved to Arkansas circa 1825 where he owned a blacksmith shop and salt works, but he was an accomplished silversmith? George served in the War of 1812 in Col. Morgan Jr. Cherokee Regiment. Has anyone ordered his Military Records for study? Some say he was wounded, which caused him to limp; some say he was otherwise crippled, but when did the Military accept crippled men for Service? If Sequoyah were born 1760 he would have been age 52 in 1812. He supposedly went to Washington D.C. 1828 for the treaty discussion concerning land in Oklahoma Territory. Did Sequoyah ever sign such a Treaty? If so, when did he become a Chief? If not, what was the purpose for going to Washington? How many people are aware that a Gist Family Archive is extant in the form of a Manuscript Collection dating from mid 1600s to very late 1800s, which does include a rather accurate accounting of the Gist family? Exactly which person by name Nathaniel Gist is subject of concern?

    Nathaniel Gist b. 1707
    Nathaniel Gist b. 1733
    Nathaniel Gist b. 1736

    By the time Sequoyah died he was Famous, or at least the scholars want us to believe he was Famous.

    I cited source of information for the death of the man who put the Cherokee Syllabary to paper using pen and ink. I cannot produce the document, or even a scan of it for anyone since we do not possess it. But anyone going looking for the grave of Sequoyah will not find it, because it does not exist. There never was a man named Sequoyah, only the man who was presented, as Sequoyah existed.
    Tlagvga

  14. #29
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    Tlagvga said --

    George Guess was located in Texas no later than 1817, and of that there cannot be much doubt. It is not possible that Nathaniel Gist was the father of George Guess. At the exact time George Guess was conceived, Nathaniel Gist was an Army Captain serving in the Byrd and Stephen regiment of Virginia Volunteers, which was on the march against the Cherokee Nation. Research can prove specific facts.

    reply --

    Emigration rolls (direct quote). Most researchers say he didn't leave immediately for Arkansas. What documentation do oyu have that he was in Arkansas earlier?

    page 3

    # 126
    date -- April 13, 1817, Too-cha-lar, Chief; # in party -- 12; residence -- Willstown

    page 7
    # 316
    date -- may 23, 1818; George Gess: # in party -- 11; residence -- Willstown.

    ================

    You said Nathaniel Gist was not in E Tn at the time of sequoyah's conception and that research could show that. my research has shown the following (please read the whole article, I have just taken parts relating to where Nathaniel was in 1760-1761 -- I haev several references, but this has it in a concise format, covering the matter in question.

    excerpts taken from Chronicles of Oklahoma; Volume 15, No. 1
    March, 1937;
    THE FATHER OF SEQUOYAH: NATHANIEL GIST by
    Samuel C. Williams

    http://digital.library.okstate.edu/C...015p003.html--

    Young Gist was evidently a visitor, for trade purposes, to the Overhill Cherokees as early as 1753. Manifestly, he was the son

    Page 4

    referred to by Christopher Gist in the following excerpt from his Journal of 1753, kept while on a tour to the Ohio with Major George Washington: "A messenger came with letters from my son who has just returned from his people at the Cherokees."1

    In 1754, at the age of 20, Nathaniel Gist was among the Overhill Cherokees.

    . . .

    In the Dictionary of American Biography (Vol. VII), in the sketch of Christopher Gist by W. J. Ghent, the statement is made that "in 1756, he [Christopher Gist] went to the Cherokee country in East Tennessee in the vain effort to enlist Indians for service, and for a time he was an Indian agent in that locality."

    . . .

    Summers, in his History of Southwest Virginia, gives a glimpse of Nathaniel Gist and Daniel Boone in 1760: "About the same time Daniel Boone, accompanied by several hunters, visited the Holston and camped the first night in what is now known as Taylor's valley. On the succeeding day they hunted down the South Fork of Holston and traveled thence to what was thereafter known as Wolf Hill (Abingdon). Boone and his companion * * * disagreed and separated, Boone taking the Indian trail to the Long Island, and Nathaniel Gist, his companion, following the Indian trail to Cumberland Gap."

    Relying, in part, upon this datum, Albert V. Goodpasture, a thorough investigator and most competent historian, in his "Paternity of Sequoyah,"9 advances the contention that, after this hunt-


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    8June 17, 1758. Kimball (ed.) Correspondence of Wm. Pitt, II, 279.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    9Chronicles of Oklahoma, I, 12. et seq.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Page 9

    ing trip, Gist went to the Cherokee towns on the Little Tennessee river and there formed a temporary alliance with a Cherokee maiden in 1760-61, the result of which was the birth of the great Sequoyah.

    . . .

    Goodpasture reinforces the argument by citing the facts that in Gist's petition to the legislature of Virginia asking confirmation of his title to Long Island of Holston from the Cherokees he represented that he had obtained it in 1761, thus evidencing his presence among the Indians in that year.

    end of quote --

    question -- what research documents do you have to disprove what is stated above?

    thanks

    Vance

  15. #30
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    you said --

    Do you honestly believe a man such as Sequoyah, could die without people knowing about such an event? What about his estate?

    reply --

    I have visited sequoyah's log cabin outside of Sallisaw -- it contained one room only. Out front was a large cauldron for processing salt He had no estate to speak of.

    His death is well documented. The Worm wrote about it at it was published at the time of his death.

    you said --

    Exactly which person by name Nathaniel Gist is subject of concern?

    Nathaniel Gist b. 1707
    Nathaniel Gist b. 1733
    Nathaniel Gist b. 1736

    He was the Nathaniel who was the son of Christopher, the man who saved George Washington's life in the French and Indian war. Nathaniel at first allied himself with dragging Canoe until 1777 in the Revolutionary war -- he was a Tory for 2 years. When he switched sides, many men wanted to hang him on the spot.

    Here is a pretty good article about him --

    http://unitedkeetoowahband.org/sequoyah.htm

    you said --

    I cannot produce the document, or even a scan of it for anyone since we do not possess it. But anyone going looking for the grave of Sequoyah will not find it, because it does not exist.

    reply --

    from

    Chronicles of Oklahoma
    Volume 8, No. 2
    June, 1930
    THE LIFE AND WORK OF SEQUOYAH
    By John B. Davis, B. S., M. A.

    http://digital.library.okstate.edu/C.../v008p149.html

    The following letter gives the most circumstantial account of the death of Sequoyah:

    59Warren's Trading House, Red River,
    April 21st, 1845.
    "We, the undersigned Cherokees, direct from the Spanish Dominions, do hereby certify that George Guess of the Cherokee Nation, Arkansas,

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    56Letters of Sept. 12, and Nov. 23, 1844, from Agent Butler to Commissioner of Indian Affairs.

    57Letter of Commissioner of Indian Affairs to Agent Butler, Jan. 17, 1845.

    58Letter of Oo-no-leh to Agent Butler, May 15, 1845.

    59Starr: Early History of the Cherokees, p. 68.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    departed this life in the town of San-fernando in the month of August, 1843, and his son Chusaleta is at this time on the Brasos River, Texas, about thirty miles above the falls, and he intends returning home this fall.
    "Given under our hands the day and date written.
    his
    STANDING X ROCK
    mark
    his
    STANDING X BOWLES
    mark
    his
    WATCH X JUSTICE
    mark
    WITNESSES
    Daniel G. Watson
    Jesse Chisholm."

    end of direct quote --

    so records of his death were well known and documented by many, including the half-Cherokee for whom the Chisolm trail was named, a son of Duwali, and others.

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