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Thread: Big jake Troxel - Cornblossom

  1. #31
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    Hello Vance,

    Thank you for a very detailed response. We too ask for documentation when we do not have access to specific information; however, the sources cited do not address primarily the issue of time frame regarding Wurtea being Sequoyah’s mother if in fact fathered by Nathaniel Gist. That time frame is extremely narrow, so narrow to be one month off is adequate to change the assertion of Mooney and others considerably.

    Christopher Gist, immigrant to Maryland d. 1690 Baltimore Maryland. Will proved March 10, 1690.

    Had one son

    Richard b. 1684
    M: 7 Dec 1704
    Zipporah Murray b. 1684

    They had five sons

    **Christopher b. 1705
    Nathaniel b. 1707
    William b. 1711
    Thomas b. 1709
    John b.? d. 1778

    **Christopher
    m:
    Sarah Howard

    Sons
    Richard b. 2 Sep 1729 Killed at battle of Kings Mountain 1780
    **Nathaniel b. 15 Oct 1733
    Thomas b. 1735 d. 1786

    **This Christopher explored Ohio and part of Kentucky for the Ohio Company in 1750, and was the guide and companion of Washington on his journey to Lake Erie in 1753. With his sons Nathaniel and Thomas, he took part, as guide and scout, in Braddock's expedition, and was present on the fatal field of battle, where those officers' troops were cut to pieces. On October 1, 1755, Christopher Gist was commissioned Lieutenant in the Virginia forces (Va. Mag., i. 285), and in 1756 he was captain of a company of scouts, which he raised for service on the frontier. The same year he went to the Carolinas to enlist Cherokee Indians for the English service, and for a time he served as Indian Agent. He died in the summer of 1759 of smallpox, in South Carolina or Georgia.

    This Christopher is the only son of Christopher Gist with sons named Nathaniel & Thomas.

    This so we are on the same page of history

    By doing this we identify specific time frames for Nathaniel Gist.

    In late 1759 Governor Lyttelton negotiated a peace treaty with the Cherokee, and word was sent to then Colonel Waddell in January 1760 while on the march that his assistance was not needed, and a treaty of peace was negotiated with the Cherokees. At this specific time Nathaniel was with Colonel Hugh Waddell.

    On February 1, 1760, while a large party (including the family of Patrick Calhoun), numbering in all about one hundred and fifty persons, were removing from the Long Cane settlement to Augusta, they were suddenly attacked by a hundred mounted Cherokees, who slaughtered about fifty of them. After the massacre, many of the children were found helplessly wandering in the woods. One man alone carried to Augusta no less than nine of the pitiful innocents, some horribly mutilated with the tomahawk, others scalped, and all yet alive. The Young Warrior of Estatoe (Silouee) led the attack with Round O, Great Eagle (Tiftoe) and other Cherokee & Shawnee Chiefs. The same army of warriors continued to attack Fort Prince George, but was repeatedly driven away.

    Governor Bull replaced Governor Lyttelton, and he decided to go all out and asked for help. On April 1, 1760 General Montgomery arrived at Charleston with a force of 1200 men and instructions to attack. The result was inconsequential; Montgomery lost an estimated one hundred men, while the Indians lost significantly less. Unable to care for the wounded and lacking a secure method of redeployment, Montgomery withdrew his forces. In so doing that he acknowledged defeat, and he was forced to abandon his goal, relieving the garrison at Fort Loudon. The situation remained unchanged with Indians controlling the area. On May 1, 1761 Colonel Waddell with a force of 500 Volunteers including Lieutenant Nathaniel Gist marched against the Cherokee. On July 7, 1761, Colonel James Grant, detached from the main army in command of a force of twenty-six hundred men, took up his march from Fort Prince George. They attacked on July 10th two miles south of the spot where Montgomery was engaged the year before. Grant's army, after a battle lasting several hours, drove off the Indians. The army then destroyed fifteen towns of the Middle Settlements; and then went to Fort Prince George. Peace was agreed upon September 1761. Colonel Waddell with his force of five hundred North Carolinians had acted in concert with Colonel William Byrd then commanding the Virginia detachment. The combined forces camped at Captain Samuel Stalnaker's place on the Middle Fork of the Holston. There the combined forces of both Stephen and Waddell built Fort Robinson, which resulted in another treaty of peace November 1761.

    According to Chronicles of Oklahoma, Young Nathaniel Gist was present among the Cherokee 1753 at age 20 odd years sent by his father to trade with the Cherokee.

    Goodpasture asserted that young Gist was there 1760 after arguing with Daniel Boone while detached from Waddell for the purpose of hunting, and after the argument Gist went to the Cherokee towns on the Little Tennessee and formed temporary alliance with a Cherokee maiden in 1760-61, the result of which was the birth of the great Sequoyah.

    Is it possible for a Captain assigned to a commander trying to annihilate the Cherokees to form a temporary alliance with a young Indian maiden 1760-1761?

    Wurtea and Robert Due had son Chief John Jolly Due 1759

    Wurtea and Bloody Fellow had son Chief Tahlonteeskee 1761

    This leaves only 1 year 1760 for the birth of Sequoyah if fathered by Nathaniel Gist.

    This documents the time frame of Nathaniel Gist to November 1761.

    The problem with all this is the details of several sources do not match. Richard Pearis was supposedly involved somehow but this is of no consequence and had nothing to do with the events that transpired during the French Indian Wars.

    The hunting trip when Gist and Boone argued could only have occurred in a very narrow time frame. That frame January 1760 to February 1760. Both men were under command of Waddell, and would have been the one time Waddell would have allowed two key men to go take an “extended hunting trip,” omitted from the verification by Goodpasture. At best there was only a “tentative peace” between January 1760 and February 1760, a very short-lived tentative peace. If the Oklahoma Chronicles are correct, the extant records in the states of Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina are wrong concerning specific dates. Governor Robert Dinwiddie of Virginia commissioned Nathaniel Gist a Captain in 1757, and he was paid accordingly for his services in 1757, 1758 1759, 1760, and 1761.

    But there are other sources with explicit information of a different nature; the following quote is from The Conquest of the Old Southwest by Archibald Henderson.

    "In the late autumn of 1761, Daniel Boone and Nathaniel Gist, the son of Washington's famous guide, who were both serving under Waddell, temporarily detached themselves from his command and led a small party on a "long hunt" in the Valley of the Holston, While encamping near the site of Black's Fort, subsequently built, they were violently assailed by a pack of fierce wolves which they had considerable difficulty in beating off; and from this incident the locality became known as Wolf Hills (now Abingdon, Virginia)."

    As you can see references are references, but again confirming Gist was with Waddell, and not with an Indian maiden. If in fact, George Guess’s father were a white man, a more likely candidate would be Henry Timberlake. Moreover, Timberlake was a man held in high esteem by the Overhills people, and made the trip to England with two of Washington’s favorite Indians, The Mankiller of Tomatly (Outacite), Ostenaco and the third, Standing Turkey 1762. Finally, Henry Timberlake is known without doubt to have been in contact with the Overhills people 1762, and again 1764 and in a time frame much more suitable for trysts with an Indian Maiden.

    Sources, Chronicles of Oklahoma, Archives of North and South Carolina, Military Service records of Virginia, and Militia commissions ordered by the British Crown.

    If both of us keep an open mind, perhaps we can unlock the mystery so long hidden behind the mask of ignorance and missing information. Please bear with me.

    We already know when Ostenaco returned from England with Timberlake 1762 they learned he had a new son, and Ostenaco had a new grandson. The child was born to Henry Timberlake, and Ostenaco’s daughter, Sakinney. Ostenaco talked about his new “favorite grandson” with anyone and everyone who would listen. Everyone knows that Ostenaco died in the home of Richard Timberlake at Hiwassee 1780. The question is how many grandsons did Ostenaco have? Ostenaco had no sons, and one daughter.

    We have also been told Sequoyah was raised by his mother; however, that does not wash if she was honestly a Cherokee maiden. In the case of children without a father, an Uncle or Brother is duty bound to raise the child. In the case of neither, the father of the woman is duty bound to rear the child. And if Wurtea was the mother, Sequoyah had at least two half-brothers, and at least one stepfather before John Benge took her to wife.

    As an exercise try writing the word Sequiha in cursive.

    Try writing the word Soguili several times.

    Ok, now try Sikwayi.

    Last try writing the word Secoya.

    Historically, when is the first recorded known reference to Sequoyah?

    If you can answer the last question, we could possibly solve the Sequoyah riddle. We have not been able to locate proof of the first known usage of the word representing the man who put Cherokee to paper, and we have been looking for more than 40 years.

    Thank you,
    Tlagvga

  2. #32
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    Tla gv ga,
    This discussion, while very interesting in an historical context, has little to do with Eastern Siouan genealogy. I would like to suggest that you continue your discussion with Vance by Email.
    Bill

  3. #33
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    Very interesting discussion.......... just an aside here....... The Timberlake family in 1700s Granville co, NC are associated with the same Sneede, Tapp, Gooch, Allen, Lunsford, Meadows, et al group which the proponderence of circumstantial evidence would say were mixed saponi.

  4. #34
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    DreamingHawk,
    Quite true, as far as that goes.
    Tla Gv Ga was asked for his sources and he cited none that could be cross-checked. Claims, without sources.

    Tla Gv Ga,
    With all due respect, take your discussion to the "Share History Research" section of the Forum and cite specific documentation to support your heretofore assertions. Yes, I'm aware that some of what you've said here can be documented but the genealogy you have cited is not.
    I'm also aware that this is the genealogy section of this Eastern Sioux Forum and is not dedicated to exploring TlaLaGi history.
    Bill

  5. #35
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    Hello Bill,

    Sorry, but whenever I click on Home, the main pages says nothing about, Geneaology Section, Eastern Sioux Forum.

    If possible, please move this thread to wherever you deem appropriate.

    Thank you,
    Tlagvga

  6. #36
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    The Sappony/Saponi are the Eastern Sioux.
    Click on 'Saponitown Forum' (not a button - it's a 'clickable' title.)
    Scroll down to 'Share Historical Reseach" and click on that.

  7. #37
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    Hello Bill,

    Thank you,
    Tlagvga

  8. #38
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    Everyone,

    My apologies to everyone for intruding with subject mater that does not pertain to Sioux research. Consequently this will be my last post, but will read all responses.

    Thank you Bill!

    To Vance,

    If after reading this you are interested in continuation, post so on your Cherokee forum on Yahoo. We are a Yahoo member, and working there is no problem.
    -----------------------------------

    Hello Vance,

    After reading your posts to glean more information on sources you have quoted, it is now most evident your post of 07-03-2005 01:46 PM claims Toochalar is George Guess or the Sequoyah. In that post you replied to an earlier post by me, where I wrote,
    +++++++

    Tlagvga wrote: “George Guess was located in Texas no later than 1817, and of that there cannot be much doubt. It is not possible that Nathaniel Gist was the father of George Guess. At the exact time George Guess was conceived, Nathaniel Gist was an Army Captain serving in the Byrd and Stephen regiment of Virginia Volunteers, which was on the march against the Cherokee Nation. Research can prove specific facts.”
    +++++++

    Vance replied: “page 3
    # 126
    date -- April 13, 1817, Too-cha-lar, Chief; # in party -- 12; residence -- Willstown

    page 7
    # 316
    date -- may 23, 1818; George Gess: # in party -- 11; residence -- Willstown.”
    ----------------

    If that is correct, and we are not saying we doubt your assertions apparently you are not aware of the fact in the 1817 Treaty of the Cherokee, that he, Toochalar is specifically identified as an Arkansas Cherokee Chief, and his place is rather prominent in that, his signature is first under the Arkansas section as signatory. But, we do find it somewhat contradictory that you claim he was living in Willstown at that time, which means one of two things, confusion about where Sequoyah was, or someone has made serious mistakes in documentation of who Sequoyah the person, was, and his place in tribal society of the Cherokee concerning rank and file order. Be sure to look at the Rank of the Chiefs since beginning at the Treaty of Tellico, the Chiefs ranking order was also their order of where signatures were placed. Treaty of Cherokee Agency July 8, 1817, just two months after the information that you cited, link follows,

    http://dads.ala.nu/treaty9.htm

    Similarly, Springfrog also was an Arkansas signatory for the same Treaty in that, he had returned to Arkansas after his people were nearly totally wiped out 1806 by smallpox.

    You will also learn Toochalar signed many treaties, of which we believe the first signed by him was the Treaty of Tellico, October 25, 1805. At that time, Toochalar was living in Arkansas, and so far as we know he died before Removal began 1828. His name is not included on subsequent treaties that we have found.

    George Guess & Toochalar were not one and the same person.

    You asked what documentation we can provide; however, we never asked for any info until you cited specific facts-which are illogical, or just plain wrong. We have known for many years the so-called Historical Experts that most everyone uses were often driven by money, bribes, to falsify or feint their documentation. One of the worst was Mooney, and don’t forget where Mooney lived. George Guess, or whomever the person was that put Cherokee to paper never signed a Treaty, and the signature on the 1828 Treaty, as George Guess, was not that person.
    Tlagvga

  9. #39
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    Toochelar is not Sequoyah -- they are clearly 2 men who signed the emigration rolls months apart -- he was Chief of Sequoyah's home town. As I said he was a prominent Chief in Arkansas. In the emigration rolls # 167 is Springfrog's name dated may 20, 1818, also from Willstown. Right after him are 2 McLmore's, John Sr & Jr. By Toochelar's name is the word "Chief", a title not beside Spring frog's name.

    Those dates are straight out of the Cherokee emigration rolls as transcribed by Jack D. Baker., published by Baker Pub Co, po box 20951, Ok C, Ok 73256, (c) 1977.

    The dates are correct. Please feel free to post all this on the yahoo group I spoke of.

    Bill, per your request this is my last post on this topic here.

    vance

  10. #40
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    Originally posted by tlagvga
    Hello Vance,

    In the course of our research we proved several surnames long associated with Shawnee and Cherokee as living in Missouri and Eastern Kansas. This is especially true prior to the Civil War circa 1850. Dominate names, Welch, Greenwood, White Carnes, Watts, Briggs, Gilliam, Lowery, Boone, McLemore, and Wayland. Check the 1850 Missouri Census for these names and look for origin state. While doing so, you will also notice Missouri births are common before statehood among those particular names. It is hard to prove which tribe people settling in Missouri and Kansas actually belonged to for many of the people traveled in mixed groups representing several tribes, and a lot of them the lesser known tribes that were “adopted” Shawnee, Cherokee, Creek and Chickasaw. It appears Missouri become home for a large group of Chickasaw after Kentucky freed up their lands in Western Kentucky 1817-1818.

    We can prepare a list of known Safe Houses, the locations, and dates they were active, which we would be willing to share. Several were located along the Trail of Tears. The mapping everyone uses for the Trail in Missouri is more or less worthless. There was no set single trail once leaving the Illinois border. In the fall of 1828 conditions in Missouri were very dry, and people had to travel where there was adequate water. That changed drastically in December when the Mississippi was moving so much ice many people were stranded for several weeks waiting to cross the River because of Ice. The Indians learned the trail would pass through Missouri not long after the Removal Order passed Congress because of scouting reports, and existing roads. Missouri circa 1838 had very few trees, with significant prairie land north of the Ozark Mountains to the Missouri River.

    Missouri become a state in 1821 and hundreds of thousands of acres were up for sale to anyone in 160-acre tracts. It seemed nobody paid much attention to neighbors and farm labor was in short supply, a win-win situation for everyone. To plot the basic Trail in Missouri, you can use any of the published maps; however, there was no set trail, and people had to travel near water when possible. Follow the Trail to Pulaski County in Missouri, from there the Trail deviated in several places. On December 9, 1838 one group was refused a place to camp near Waynesville in Pulaski County. If it were not for Colonel Swink and his wife who allowed them to camp on their property, most of them would have died. They were cold, hungry, and afoot because they ate their animals, and were without any blankets or warm clothing. The Swink family gave them enough walking beef, corn, and other provisions to finish the trip. Many people swore Colonel Swink went to the nearby fort at Rolla Missouri with two neighbors, and at gunpoint demanded enough blankets to keep the people from freezing to death. Colonel Swink was a retired veteran; his family stated he resigned his commission because of the Indian Removal act, and openly stated if he ever saw Andrew Jackson again he would shoot him on sight. We have no documentation concerning the events at Waynesville Missouri December 9, 1838, but we believe them to be true. Very few people know the Removal began much earlier than 1838. We have documented the first known group to travel the Trail through Missouri took place 1837, and was under the command of conductor, B.B. Cannon escorting 365 persons.

    This may not be the place for this; however, we think these types of documentaries are needed by many researchers; therefore, a few comments. Without this type of reference material people simply will never understand the terrible conditions the people who made these trips endured. Why in the world would anyone plan a departure for a journey known to take several months during the month of October? We know why, and we fully understand why. Such planning was nothing less than calculated and planned genocide a people specifically designed to reduce their numbers for easier management once they arrived at destination.

    What follows in the next three posts is the Chronological Record submitted by B. B. Cannon, Condudtor.

    -----------------------------------------
    I wanted to add to this. My family's property is bisected by the Old Wire Road (telegraph wire ran along it, the Springfield to St. Louis Road) in Pulaski County, MO, just west of Waynesville. There was a stagecoach stop there during the Civil War, but I don't think it was there in 1837.

    It has been my family tradition that we were of Cherokee descent. Supposedly the Riddle's (now known to not be Cherokee) came on the Trail of Tears, through Steelville and down what later became the Old Wire Road through Waynesville, where they somehow were able to settle.

    In speaking with Mr. Mooney of Tahlequah, my mom was told that the Riddles were associated with Doublehead's group. The only connection I have seen is a Riddle Benge...any info on him?

    I do have Cherokee blood, but I don't believe it came from the Riddle side. Most likely the Bench side (via Lucinda Bench, who married Andrew Jackson Riddle). I could never understand how a Cherokee boy could be named Andrew Jackson in 1843...but who knows.

    Also, there is a known Shawnee settlement that is located about 5 minutes from my house, where the Bourbeouse River runs into the Meramec River near Moselle, MO. I have been meaning to visit it in the spring or fall (too overgrown in summer). This settlement was known as Shawneetown and is said to have been largest in the late 1790's. Supposedly the Spanish encouraged the Shawnee to move here in order to keep the Osage in check. The Osage, by the way, supposedly lived near what is now my town, Union, MO. The Osage are said to have been over 6 ft. tall, handsome, and fierce.

  11. #41
    Originally posted by vance hawkins
    Tlagvga --

    there is a book --

    Dianna Everett, The Texas Cherokees: A People between Two Fires, 1819-1840 (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1990).

    =========

    I have read it alhto I don't have a copy. I got it through library loan. I recall it mentioning government reports of a count of just how many Indians remained East of the Mississippi -- the government kept these records. They seem to have ignored mixed-blood communities which still existed. The number was very low, just a handful. Since I don't have the book any more all I can say is I recall reading it in that book.

    It reminded me of them patting themselves on the back for finally succeeding in achieving the "final solution" to the "Indian problem".

    Vance

    Hello Vance (and everyone who has been a part of this thread)...this topic really did catch my eye becuase my husband's line paternally descends from the Troxell's you made mention of...we too have read about the Falls massacre and the Cornblossom info...we even took a trip to see her "grave" near Whitley, KY...we have also been to Dan Troxell's site and read much of what he wrote but as of this writing, we have not heard anything further from him in many months....as with any minimally documented family history...alot of what is "out there" is in fact supposition so who is to say if or what occurred at the aforementioned locale. I know that alot of ppl have vigorously tried to make their ancestral connection to the Native American families and irreguardless, some ppl will embrace a NOTION of it wholeheartedly without pause. The truth of it is that we are ALL intrigued by family lore and tales and liek another member said: "We know what we know what we know." I read a little "ditty" once whereby an elder woman encountered a younger fellow and he told her he was "part Indian"...and she pointed to him and asked: which part of you is Indian son?...your toes? hands? legs? or arms?....she then told him that there is no such thing as being "part Indian"...that the Indian is innately in your HEART and that anyone with Native American heritage should embrace that lineage and know that they ARE Indian and feel it from within their heart. I know I didn't fully detail the ditty but the basic premise is the same and is worth noting I feel. Some stories or family "mysteries" or "brick walls may never be fully documentally proven and that is fine too. It is all very interesting to me irreguardless....the more we read, the more we research, the more learn and come to know ourselves via our past kinfolk. That said...no arguments here....thank you for sharing what you have learned and believe and allow us to all ponder...here are a few links I had handy that touch on some of the Falls massacre and Cornblossom data we "bumped" into when we first started our Troxell researching:

    http://home.fuse.net/genealogy/cornblossom.html

    http://www.cville.com/members/ridenour/attak1.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/genealogydavis/jakecorn.html

    http://victorian.fortunecity.com/rot...ski/yahoo.html

    http://www.geocities.com/jillserenam...headlinks.html

    http://www.cherokeebyblood.com/cherdates.htm

    I hope some of the above links are interesting at the least...I have more but don't wish to overpost and overshadow the topic. *grin* Blessings to all in your endeavors~~~~Laurie

  12. #42
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    BlondeyeLaurie,

    I have written to every website there is conserning the Troxell's, and asked them what was the source of their material -- not a single site could provide it. All went back to saying they had copied it off of Dan Troxell's website. He was the ultimate source for ALL of it. I suggest you try writing all those website that you looked up and ask them where they found the source for their material. I've already done it, and I did it 3 or 4 years ago.

    I never said they were not mixed blood Indian -- Dan himself said his ancestor is part-Delaware. Famous Cherokee genealogists say there was no Cornblossom, and laugh at the notion saying "corn doesn't have a blossom" -- and that it just isn't a name a Cherokee would ever have.

    I have researched this thouroughly and would love for the story to be true -- but there is no evidence for it other that the family story of one man. Where did Dan Troxell get it? There was a Thomas Troxell in N Tn who wrote a series of short stories called "Legion of the Lost Mine" and in the foreward says "some of the persons in the book are fictitious." That is where the stories came from.

    I talked to a historian from McCreary Co., Ky who said he researched this tale -- probabluy more than any man alive -- and he found no evidence at all for it. His ancestors lived there for a long time and he was a descendant of the Slaven family mentioned in some of those tales. He wrote a book on the topic called "SouthFork Country" (his name is Samuel D. Perry) and I got a copy from him which he signed for me -- everyone interested in this topic should read it.

    It is very possible that an early day Troxel married an Indian -- it just wasn't any daughter of Doublehead -- that's fiction.

    Doublehead has known descendants today, some are enrolled Cherokee and some Chickasaw (he had a daughter that married a well known Chickasaw Chief George Colbert). They don't claim any Troxell heritage either and don't believe those stories. Bird Doublehead, Doublehead's son, walked the "Trail of Tears". There is no record from these folks of a "Cornblossom" . . .

    I have spent so much time on research of this one topic -- probably over 100 hours -- seeking, hoping, one source would eventually pop up -- and never have found anyone with a document that would support these claims altho many claimed the had something. If you ask them to get specific they can't. I started out trying to provide proof of these stories as I saw a few ties to my family -- but I was dissapointed, and I will not spread rumors.

    There is a grave injustice in those stories to the Gregory family. Since there is no evidence of a massacre -- archaeologists have searched and say there are no bones, and there is no evidence of lead shot in the ground at the site (I've talked to the archaeologist hird by Daniel Boone National Forest who works in S Ky), as would be the case if an actual massacre had taken place there. I have heard through Mr Perry that some Gregory's still live there and here is this man saying their ancestor massacred over 100 children, something he most likely never did. If you were a Gregory, how would you feel about that? I have also talked to several Cherokee historians ahd they agree with Mr Perry -- no massacre ever took place.

    If you have any evidence at all for a massacre, of of the existence of Cornblossom or Tuckahoe (also "Tuckaho" is NOT a Cherokee word), please bring it forth. I let people know "this is a family story and we can't prove it" and make that VERY CLEAR when I say things, tales in my families history. My family stories are every bit as interesting as Dan's are, but nobody knows much about them. Why? Because I don't have beaucoup websites proclaiming these family tales as tho they are known facts.

    As for what part of me is Indian, a hand or a foot, et cetera -- (I've been told this tale 100 times and I am tired of hearing it over and over) -- well, it just doesn't work that way, I am sorry. A little coffee flavors the entire cup of water, yet the coffee without the water wouldn't be very good either. They say mixed breed dogs make the best pets, and mixed blood people can be the best as well. I am very proud to say I am MIXED-blood. When dad was asked he'd say "Oh, I have a little Indian blood, not much (he was about 1/4th)."

    That's not a bad way to behave. All those websites might have cought the attention of Doublehead's known descendants and maybe they don't care for it -- maybe that's why Dan is layin' low and not as talkative as he once was a few years back . . .

    vance

  13. #43
    Hello Vance....thank you ( I think?) for your reply to my post...I am admittedly a bit miffed at your candor with me personally but perhaps you reaction was based on your own negative experinces with the whole "Cornblosson saga"? It was NEVER my intention to incite anger or hostility over the topic...it simply caught MY eye being as my husband's father is related to the Troxell line as such: his father Gary's grandma was Alice Troxell...daughter of William Peter Troxel....son of David Troxell...son of George Washington Troxell....son of "War Chief" Peter Troxell....son of "Big Jake" Troxell....and according to Dan Troxell....this mysterious and perhaps fictional Princess Cornblossom. That said...we too have TRIED locating data and info and factual reasoning for this ancestry as well...we have emailed Dan and tried to seek answers and like I mentioned he is in fact either "laying low" or avoiding or just on one of his "sebbaticals". We have NOT been afforded "proof" either and if YOU personally already wrote to the site owners and inquired about the validity of such claims and recieved a null or void reply....gee, I'll pass on that opportunity thanks. I am not personally versed enough in the Cherokee given name customs so I just cannot responde to the Cornblossom name being meritously or NOT in sync with their heritage. If in fact, as it appears that these "stories" are untrue....it is a shame and a sham both...I can recognize that. We have made numerous trips ourselves to McCreary county and have spoken at length with the folks at the McCreary County Historical Preservation Society....great folks...and have visited some of the numerous cemeteries there for my husband's ancestors....they do a fine job of preserving their burial history and recording the internments. If the Doublehead ancestors do not "claim" any Troxell heritage then so be it...either out of ill-will or simply non-affiliation. I would like to make it very clear as well that I am not spreading rumors either....just joining in (or trying to) on a "close to home" topic that concerns my spouse's lineage. Forgive me if I stepped on your geneological toes...that was not my intention in the least...we, like so many other simply seek answers to our family connections. I hope you can forgive me the misnomer of repeating a story that YOU personally are tired of hearing...perhaps tolerance of others who are NEW to this site will follow you and lighten the emotional load that I apparently placed upon your shoulders? I am not a seasoned Native American researcher...heck, we only just started "digging" about 18 months ago after my mother passed away and I realized I knew so very little of her family lines, primarilly: Nichols, Jett, Triplett, Cole, Gisbon, Perkins, Collins, Beall, Jones, Scott.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your contention that for the Gregory family...a "tale" of a massacre would in fact be horrid especially if completely untrue. My late mother never "hid" her "mixed-bloodedness" either...she told her truths as she knew them and for that I am grateful...I just hope I can, in my own endeavors, honor her ancestry and memory with clarity.
    Blessings from Cincy~~~~Laurie

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    2,316
    Laurie,
    Vance was disputing the assertion, not you personally.
    But no one here should use "you" in caps, it's too inflammatory.

    Everyone....
    Let us, including myself, be more tolerant than most of my ancestors would have been. We all have our 'hot-buttons' and we all need to exercise more restraint at times when those buttons are pushed.
    Declare a truce and get on with the work.
    We have a lot to discover.
    Bill

  15. #45
    Howdy Bill...if Lance was in fact upset over said assertion...that is understandable and if, as you said, he was not directing it at me then I will indeed dismiss the notion and call a "truce"... I am not a demeaning nor drama-inciting individual and honestly never intended even an iota of harm in posting what I did. *shrugs* I will certainly adhere to your no- caps "you" policy henceforth be it emphatic or otherwise. 'nuff said~~~~Laurie

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