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Thread: Big jake Troxel - Cornblossom

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    1
    Vance,

    Im really not sure where to begin. Bill mentioned something to the effect of holding our tempers so I am going to try real hard.

    First off what is that you are holding under your face in the picture? Looks like you used a mug shot for your picture.

    As far as the Gregory Family goes in this "Tale", So What....

    In american history if your ancestors were here in the 17 & 1800's then chances are you had Indians or indian killers or both in your family. It was just the way this country was formed. There was without a doubt a terribly large number of atrocities done to the American Indians, the original owners of this land.

    Massacre after Massacre, so why not this one? I have to ask are you a Gregory decendant? If these falls and this area were so inaccesible would it not be the Ideal place as an Indian stronghold. One way in means protection and safety.

    Yes the Jake Troxell Monument is in the Daniel Boone National Forest, But the Cornblossom Monument is not. Its in McCreary County. So were the Governor, Mayor of Stearns, & Dan Troxell all in it together?

    We are talking about history that would have been erased and disputed by "The White Man". The only way Many of the stories have been uncovered is by family stories passed down thru the hush hush period. So what is you big beef with the Troxell line?

    Cornblossom not a Cherokee accepted name.....Uh have you heard of americanization? Cornblossom can be found in the Deleware language "Pawalin" means "Cornblossom Falls off". This name was a common name given to women. So maybe she was "Cornblossom", Cornstalk, or even Cornonthecob. It may never be known exactly what her name was. But thru americanization and the stories told and endorsed by the Commonwealth of Kentucky, she has been recorded as Cornblossom. For all you know she may have been named Cornblossom in an attempt at friendship with the Deleware and Shawnee who were there in Kentucky.

    This topic and your input sure yells opposing tribes to me. All of us, of Native American Descent need to drop the opposing tribe crap and bring unity to all tribes. Had this been done in the beginning maybe the "White Man" would have ran from a good butt kicking.


    On a lighter note, thank you for the links and message group listing, and some of your info. You sure appear to be well educated in the matter of indian heritage and I am sure you could help even me with some of your info. But this resentment you hold towards the whole idea of the massacre in question is quite unfavorable and offensive to me personally. Someone so well educated should have more tolerance and a more open mind to things we cannot prove or disprove.

    I've got to run 4 now. I hope this message doesnt offend anyone and hope to speak more about this with you.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    354
    There is no need to get angry. Vance is a decent and knowledgeable man.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by tlagvga
    Hello Vance,

    Thank you for a most excellent and thoughtful response.

    My heritage is truly mixed - Cherokee, Shawnee, Osage, Navajo, Zuni, and Hopi - those six we have documented and proved without doubt, and most likely we have some of the lesser-known eastern tribes as well. My immigrant direct line starts in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Virginia ... with a family of eight siblings all-migrating to the New Land as early as 1634 at Jamestown. Later arrivals up to 1682 included many cousins, aunts, and uncles to Pennsylvania and Virginia.

    My language skills are barely adequate to put a few words together in a couple of native tongues, but for the life of me, in no way could we ever put Cornblossom together in Cherokee, or Shawnee. We are familiar with the Tankersly information and it appears to us he is "in the game only for the money." His claim to fame is via the Benge family, but we quickly dispensed with that claim since a very close personal friend of our family is a McLemore (distant relative of Chief Robert Benge), who does have a nearly complete record for that line. We are also very close friends with a Vincent Hobbs direct down line grandson whose grand pappy shot and killed Robert. Fact is, the three of us live within two miles of one another, and are of the same generation. Our ages are 61, 64, and 73 years. So far, nothing but good will amongst us.

    Run After McLemore is the reason for the McLemore family locating in Missouri. She passed directly through here on the Trail of Tears 1838, and then wrote a letter telling her family in Tennessee and Kentucky to "move to Missouri." That letter in the McLemore family archives and was dated January 1839 at Tahlequah. The McLemore family also has a picture of Run After, and her youngest daughter Catherine b 1832.

    We have copies of the letters between Governors Sevier and Garrard concerning the murders of Red Bird and Will 1797, including the Order by Sever issued to the Sheriff to arrest Ned Mitchell and John Livingston (correct spelling). I think there is a copy of another letter we have, which notifies the Cherokee people about the murders also.

    According to the McLemore family records, John McLemore who died 1844 at Knoxville Tennessee was a close personal friend of the oldest son of Red Bird murdered 1797, and signed two Treaties with him. 1) Treaty of Tellico October 1805 signed as Tochuwor. 2) Treaty of Washington D.C. January 1806 signed as Redbird. The Treaty of 1805 at Tellico he signed as a warrior, and was ranking man in the area affected which was then without a Chief. The Treaty of Washington D.C. he signed as Redbird for he had been elected or appointed Chief by a delegation, what delegation and where, we have never been able to validate outside the McLemore family archives. There are some records of Return J. Meigs which everyone knows is missing, and he would have most likely have been the one to give such advice to the local people. We also know the two men went to Washington D.C. with John Greenwood (Sour Mush). The three men allowed seven days from Knoxville to Washington D.C., a distance of more than 450 miles. We are not sure but have a bit of information that causes us to think Meigs made the trip with them. We do know the three men made an agreement between them never to sign another treaty afterward. And to our knowledge, none did.

    The source for most of this information is a family diary kept by John McLemore’s wife, Sarah Carnes. No doubt the Carnes name will ring someone’s bell! That family must be the most difficult family to trace that ever existed! On second thought, the Briggs family could be even worse. The McLemore men started marrying Native women with the first émigrés son, James who married direct into the Gilliam family. That James married Fortune Gilliam. Consecutive McLemore men then married Gilliam, Briggs, Edward, Clanton, Carnes and other known full and mixed blood women.

    One thing we have learned about the McLemore line, most people have it terribly wrong. Run After had several brothers and sisters, and all of them but two married whites. The only two that married Indian were Run After born 1783 the youngest, and Happy, the oldest who was born circa 1756. They were the daughters of Robert McLemore, the son of Charles McLemore and Quatsis Greenwood. Quatsis was the daughter of Chief Caesar (Thomas) Greenwood and Katie (Shawnee woman). Robert signed the Treaty of Holston July 2, 1791 as Robin McLemore, and according to the diary, nobody could figure out how to say “Robert” in Cherokee.

    Again, many thanks for the information. We just want to be sure Cornblossom never existed just in case we step on someone’s toes inadvertently.

    Before I forget, the Will killed with Red Bird 1797 was Chief Will of Akoha who signed the Treaty of Hopewell November 28, 1785.

    I was very interested in your post. I am a McLemore descendant and am disturbed that so many think Margery Henshaw was an English woman with no Indian connections. There is a fellow named John White who goes under a Cherokee name that says Margery was the daughter of John Henshaw, a fur trader who married a full blooded Ojibwa. Would be interested in conversing with you further on this. Thanks for your post....Mary

  4. #49

    Peter Troxell and Jenny (Jane) Stevenson

    I descend from Peter and Jennie Stevenson Troxell. I am completely confused about who Peter's parents were and have know idea who Jennie's parents were. I come down the line through their son George W. Troxell married to Nancy Abbott. I would appreciate any input! Thanks so much, Reba

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by tlagvga View Post
    Hello,

    I am new to this forum, and first wish to thank the hosts!

    Big problem for us is, Big Jake Troxell supposedly married the daughter of Doublehead.

    Does anyone have first hand proof Cornblossom ever existed?

    Every source we have followed ends at the same person, and we have dated the appearance of Cornblossom between 1991 and 1994. Before then it seems she never existed.

    We never heard of the Thunderbolt Chickamauga until about the same time-frame. And then next we heard about the Laurel Mountain Thunderbolt Chickamauaga?

    Can anyone specifically prove the adults who died at the Yahoo Falls Massacre?

    It is known Tuckahoe left Margaret Mounce 1821 and returned to the Cherokee. He left behind one son, and one daughter, but so far as we can discern nobody knows their names. Margaret Mounce married Elisha Roberts 30 Jan 1821 in Wayne County Kentucky accoring to Kentucky Marriage Records. The couple can be documented in 1860 and 1870 Census records in Pulaski County Kentucky proving Elisha b. 1798 and Margaret b. 1800.

    Big Jake Troxell married Elizabeth Chartier 1781 in Pennsylvania after his service in the Revolutionary War. He married Elizabeth Brewer 22 Nov 1806, in either Pennsylvania or Maryland. He last married Elizabeth Blevins Steele.

    Elizabeth Brewer either died or left Jake before March 20, 1823 when he married Elizabeth Blevins Steel, widow of Christian Steel who she married April 12, 1806 in Wayne County, Kentucky (Richard Barrier ... Bondsman for the Steele-Blevins marriage).

    This Elizabeth attempted to continue Jake's Pension for his Revolutionary War Service after his decease. Elizabeth Blevins Steel was born 1796 Morgan, Ashe County, North Carolina. She was the daughter of Wells Blevins, and Elizabeth Armstrong ... married 22 May 1789 in Patrick County, Virginia. Jake and Elizabeth Blevins Steel had one daughter.

    We have accounted for every child born to Jake and his three wives, and all of them survived by at least 20 years the event that supposedly took place at Yahoo Falls, Kentucky 1810.

    It seems people are confused about War Chief Peter Troxell. He was the bastard son of David Troxell and Elizabeth Chartier. Elizabeth was the grandaughter of Peter Chartier, a Canadian Fur Trader who married a Pekowi Woman. Peter Troxell is the man who married Jenny Stevenson (Standing Fern) 16 Jan 1803 in Wayne County, Kentucky (marriage record is extant).

    Anyone have any ideas about all of this?

    Thanx,

    tlagvga
    Tuckahoe was killed by white traders who followed him to the secret silver mine that was once owned by Chief Doublehead. Doublehead's cave is in Wayne County, Kentucky approximately 6 miles NE of Monticello. It is locally called Hines Cave.
    In 1928, Webb and Funkhouser wrote a book about the desecration of the cave. The book is entitled "Ancient Life in Kentucky".

    The Margaret Mounce in question is actually the daughter of Tuckahoe and Susanna Mounce or Mounts. This is in an old family Bible handed down from my great great grandmother, Dona Roberts, whom was the daughter of Margaret Mounce and Elias Roberts.

  6. #51
    In the past 10 yrs I have seen so many stories on the Brock family as well as the Natives from Southeastern Ky. I myself like most I would assume while growing up, was being told of my native blood, however living so far away from my father and his family, it wasn't exactly something you seen or heard everyday, atleast not from the horses mouth. My mother was the one that always brodcasted it, which at times got to by very annoying and sometimes humiliating. I've never been one to be in the spotlight, and to have someone place me there at times, well, lets just say I wasn't the happiest at those times.

    As I got older I started traveling more and spending more time with my fathers family. However, being of native decent wasn't something that was talked about very much. Perhaps it was the place in which they grew up, or maybe not. I do however know that when my father or my aunt or my grandmother speak of their blood, they always refer to my great grandmother, and more so to her parents. They themselfs however don't believe their diluted blood carrys much of anything with it. Which I guess is why they refer to "the indians" when talking about different things in the mountains etc. My grandmother has always stated that the "Brocks" had native blood in them, to what degree she never really stated, however from her and their looks it evidently was bred back in throughout the generations.

    I knew nothing of this "Red Bird" of Aaron Brock etc, until my stepmother had my fathers lineage done. They gave me a copy and I started going over it. Right off the bat I thought something was wrong. I thought there is no way that 5 generations back from me 50% of them were Brocks! So, for the past 10 yrs I've been going over all of this information. And for the people that I can find documented proof of as far as actually being alive and marrying one another etc, the census list them as "white". Which kinda throws me for a loop when looking at my family. So, that is why I am documenting the lineage before anything else. Which back tracking 10 yrs really sucks, considering I'm stuck on a great great grandmother with no d. cert who died in 1961. My father finally told me tonight that she remarried after her husband had passed. That could be why I can't find her. As for my fathers father, my grandfather, who was supposidly born in 1932, there is no birth cert for him, however I did find a birth cert with my grandfathers mother listed, however the childs name isn't the same and the supposid father isn't correct either. The birth cert for the child is listed as 1 Apr 1931, and my grandfather was supposidly born 2 Apr 1932. Now his mother only had 1 child, out of wedlock, before she was murdered on 4 Jul 1938. And my father is a Jr. and my eldest brother a 3rd, however on my grandfathers death cert. his middle name isn't what my fathers believed it was, making my father not a jr. etc.. So, I believe my grandfathers name was changed along the way, after his mother was murdered. I assume either because his grandmother my great great grandmother didn't want him to be seen as a bastard child, or because the father was looking for him.(?) I still don't know. I still don't know why his mother was murdered either, in public on the 4th of July at 24 yrs old.

    I don't know that the Brock native blood will ever be able to be proven. I think perhaps it may always be just what it is, a family story. But then again, being native isn't about blood, it's about culture and language and identifying to something as a people. I will keep my searching for documentation, and DNA when I need to make a connectiong to another person(with name changes), until I get that and proven back to 1850 or earlier, proving the Brocks had native blood in them, won't do any good. Atleast not for me. However, when I look at my family, I see the blood, I feel the blood, and for me at the moment, thats enough.

    I'll try to attach a photo of my father and my aunt. To me, they don't resemble Brocks from southeastern Ky, and according to my father, who won't talk about it, him and his sibilings have more than 1/4th in them, which I believe is where his father comes into play, since a dark poorly taken picture resembles him to be more so than his children. My father has Brocks surnames on both his mother and fathers mothers side.....

    -Chad

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    Last edited by SEKY Decendant; 10-17-2010 at 04:10 AM. Reason: mis typed sentence

  7. #52

    Big Jake & Cornblossom

    Hi, According to all my relatives (mom included) Cornblossom did exist. Her and her husband were my great++++ grandparents thru my grandfather John. I have heard about her for years from my mom. I am not familiar on her role in history, this is all new to me and I am just reading up on her. All I knew was her name, her childrens names and so on up to my grandpa. But I plan to do some DNA testing and whatever else needs done.


    Quote Originally Posted by tlagvga View Post
    Hello,

    I am new to this forum, and first wish to thank the hosts!

    Big problem for us is, Big Jake Troxell supposedly married the daughter of Doublehead.

    Does anyone have first hand proof Cornblossom ever existed?

    Every source we have followed ends at the same person, and we have dated the appearance of Cornblossom between 1991 and 1994. Before then it seems she never existed.

    We never heard of the Thunderbolt Chickamauga until about the same time-frame. And then next we heard about the Laurel Mountain Thunderbolt Chickamauaga?

    Can anyone specifically prove the adults who died at the Yahoo Falls Massacre?

    It is known Tuckahoe left Margaret Mounce 1821 and returned to the Cherokee. He left behind one son, and one daughter, but so far as we can discern nobody knows their names. Margaret Mounce married Elisha Roberts 30 Jan 1821 in Wayne County Kentucky accoring to Kentucky Marriage Records. The couple can be documented in 1860 and 1870 Census records in Pulaski County Kentucky proving Elisha b. 1798 and Margaret b. 1800.

    Big Jake Troxell married Elizabeth Chartier 1781 in Pennsylvania after his service in the Revolutionary War. He married Elizabeth Brewer 22 Nov 1806, in either Pennsylvania or Maryland. He last married Elizabeth Blevins Steele.

    Elizabeth Brewer either died or left Jake before March 20, 1823 when he married Elizabeth Blevins Steel, widow of Christian Steel who she married April 12, 1806 in Wayne County, Kentucky (Richard Barrier ... Bondsman for the Steele-Blevins marriage).

    This Elizabeth attempted to continue Jake's Pension for his Revolutionary War Service after his decease. Elizabeth Blevins Steel was born 1796 Morgan, Ashe County, North Carolina. She was the daughter of Wells Blevins, and Elizabeth Armstrong ... married 22 May 1789 in Patrick County, Virginia. Jake and Elizabeth Blevins Steel had one daughter.

    We have accounted for every child born to Jake and his three wives, and all of them survived by at least 20 years the event that supposedly took place at Yahoo Falls, Kentucky 1810.

    It seems people are confused about War Chief Peter Troxell. He was the bastard son of David Troxell and Elizabeth Chartier. Elizabeth was the grandaughter of Peter Chartier, a Canadian Fur Trader who married a Pekowi Woman. Peter Troxell is the man who married Jenny Stevenson (Standing Fern) 16 Jan 1803 in Wayne County, Kentucky (marriage record is extant).

    Anyone have any ideas about all of this?

    Thanx,

    tlagvga

  8. #53

    Cornblossom & Big Jake Troxell

    If anyone has any info they would like to share it would be a blessing. I am new to this forum and I am doing my geneology research. I have read a few things on here about Cornblossom and Big Jake Troxell. My mother and her brothers/sisters have talked about them for years. My mom is from Pulaski County, KY. We are direct descendants of this couple. My grandmothers last name was Dykes and my grandfather was Gibson. I always knew without DNA testing that my grandfather had native american, but recently found out so did my grandmother. I am doing further DNA testing myself this year. Any insight on anything else would be a blessing. Thank you. Leah

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