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Thread: Waters from Newberry SC - Vann Cherokee Cabin

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian Markley View Post
    Interesting note is that Maiden from Long Hair Clan was not a Cherokee but become the grandmother of most that were registered but she is most likely adopted as that was the clan of adoptees. I think she was most likely Algonquin by the matches that I am finding.
    By Algonquin - do you mean from Ontario Canada or do you mean speakers of an Algonquinian language?

  2. #17

    Sarah Vann

    Sarah Vann married Richard Branch Hodges (Hodge/Hogge) b 1700 in Virginia. Both my mother and myself have been dna tested, but do not show anything from that line so far. I have new connections showing every day. My aunt is in the process of doing the dna testing as well. I would be interested in any help that I can get with this as well. I am finding this extremely interesting!

    Thank you,

    Candace Paul



    Quote Originally Posted by StariNelson View Post
    This is what I have on my Vann line through many years of research with various Cherokee/Shawnee genealogists.

    First Generation Vann Family



    William Vann (Vaus) (1660) was born in either Scotland or Ireland. A Cherokee genealogist identified him as belonging to the Sottish Patrick Vaus family. I have lost touch with the genealogist, sadly, and do not have an established concrete line. I think he "may" have been a son/grandson of John I Vaus Vann, born 1616 in Wigtownshire, Scotland. He married an Elizabeth Shaw,
    of Donegal, Ireland.
    The story goes that one Vaus who helped Scotland in their war of Independence during the Jacobite Wars (Battle of Bannockburn). The family name was mutilated in order to hide the family connection to the failed rebellion, and later accidentally misspelled when William Vann, or his father, arrived in The Virginia Colony. The spelling of VANN is unique to the Cherokee Vanns in the US


    Anyway, William came to America and married a Shawano, Sarah. She is possibly the daughter of Hokoleskwa Opechan-Cornstalk Opechan & Nonoma of The Shawnee Cornstalk . I have read that William's adopted name may have been "Hokoleskwa Cornstalk " Vann.

    William and Sarah "Sukey Occaneechi Tikami" the Shawano had at least 6 known children:


    1. Ann (my ancestor) Vann was born 1689 and married John Jesse II Langston.


    2. John Edward "Ned" U Wa Ni (1690) (a trader) Vann married 3 times.
    He married sisters, Charity and Mary Barnes, daughters of Richard IV Shawnee Barnes and Tikami Swan Wapehti (April) Hop Cornstalk.
    He fathered ten children with Mary and two with Charity (Alsey Anna Mary and Edith Vann).
    He then took another wife, Mary Ani kowi Deer Clan King, and had three more sons, William, Edward & King Vann.
    Mary Barnes & Ned's children were: Ann, John, Sarah, Ned II, Elizabeth, Chief John Joseph, Mary, James Clement, Jesse & Thomas.


    3. Joseph Vann, born 1691, had 8 children, wife unknown.
    Mary, Frederick, Judy, Jacob, George, Dorcas, Elizabeth & Ann.


    4. Sarah Vann, born 1693 married an unknown Hogh.


    5. William II Vann was born in 1698.


    6. Elizabeth Vann was born in 1706, and married Charles King. **Note, Mary Anikowi Deer Clan King, wife of Ned, was likely Charles' sister, but unproven.







    Chief John Joseph Vann married Wa-Wli Mary Christeana Polly Vann, his niece. She was the daughter of his brother, Trader John Vann and Sister Raven Elizabeth Ani Gatagewi Dougherty, (daughter of Cornelius Dougherty and Peggy A--nu-we-gi Moytoy).


    With Wa-Wli Mary Christeana Polly Vann, he fathered Jesse, Joseph David, John Issac, Chief James Clement, Avery (married Margaret McSwain and Sarah Godagewi Hughes), Ned, Ann, Jennie and Nancy.
    He became Chief of Tellico in Tennessee.
    Chief John Joseph was accidently shot and killed, by his son, "Crazy James".
    Chief John Jospeh also married Agnes Weatherford and fathered Keziah Vann.


    Joseph David Vann married Sally Hughes, the grand daughter of Indian Trader Bernard Hughes and
    Sister Raven Elizabeth Ani Gatagewi Dougherty, who also married Trader John Vann. Their son James, was her father, who was married to Salle Ani-GA-Gage-WI Bird Clan Teague.
    Benard's other daughter, Sarah, married Thomas Waters.

    Benard was likely a grandson of Captain John Hughes and Nicketti Powhatan. Nicketti would have been Sarah the Shawano's cousin.


    James Clausee Vann was the son of Sally Hughes & Joseph David Vann.

  3. #18
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    Hi Candace,

    Welcome to Saponi Town!

    If you are looking for help interpreting DNA results I can try. Have you uploaded your raw DNA to GedMatch yet?

    Biwa,
    -Marc
    GrandMother - Potter, Jones, Smith, Gates, Walburn, Good, Routh, Redfern, Brower, Bechtel, Buck, Wiley, Beeler, Kyger, Heaton, Stainbrook, Ihinger, McColley, Thomas, Franklin, Warden, Hurst, Schule, Mauler, Weller, Snyder
    GrandFather - Drybread, Wheatley, Marshall, Cotton, Kitchen, Passmore, Harrell, Coppock, Pontius, Zeller, Waters, Charlton, Sager, Barbee, Wimberley, Decker, Nay, Hibbs, Tucker, Irwin, Baker, Cone, Llewellyn, Bayley, Miller->Bunch
    DNA - Parrish, Merritt, White

  4. #19
    Thank you! I have not...had not heard of it, but I will do it today and let you know. Thank you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcSnelling View Post
    Hi Candace,

    Welcome to Saponi Town!

    If you are looking for help interpreting DNA results I can try. Have you uploaded your raw DNA to GedMatch yet?

    Biwa,
    -Marc

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcSnelling View Post
    Hi Candace,

    Welcome to Saponi Town!

    If you are looking for help interpreting DNA results I can try. Have you uploaded your raw DNA to GedMatch yet?

    Biwa,
    -Marc

    Hi Marc! I got my my dna (and my mother's) uploaded to GED Match. Not sure what I'm looking at though lol. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you,

    Candace Paul

    These are the kit numbers....
    A061852 Penny Hodges Killingsworth
    A574775 candace paul

  6. #21
    Join Date
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    There are different tools you can use to compare yourself to other kit numbers, or list all your cousin matches.

    A One-To-One will compare you to an individual kit number.

    For example my kit is M223631. A one-one compare of us at default thresholds (7cM, 500SNP) shows no matches.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare0.PNG 
Views:	13 
Size:	24.0 KB 
ID:	1016

    Often I will lower the threshold to 1cM, 500SNP to see smaller matches. Many matches at this level are random in nature. But some of them can be small parts of a large match you share with someone else. For example at this threshold you match my uncle on a small part of chromosome 13.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare.PNG 
Views:	12 
Size:	28.3 KB 
ID:	1015

    To see if it is random you can look for a third person that shares any of the match. If I lower the thresholds even more I can see you do have a small match to me in the same place.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare2.PNG 
Views:	11 
Size:	27.9 KB 
ID:	1017

    So I will take this result and look in my Genome Mate database to see if I can find others who match you, me and my uncle in that area of chromosome 13 - to see if it is a traceable match.


    A One-To-Many search with your kit number will list all your cousins in the database.

    If you are looking for a specific surname you can search this list. For example I ran a one-to-many with your kit number and searched for people named Vann and Waters. Didn't find any.

    A GEDCOM + DNA match search will give you all your matches who have posted trees. You can try searching these trees for relevant surnames or locations.

    Another thing you can see in the one-to-many cousin list is haplogroups. If you are looking specifically for cousins on Native lines you can look for kits with Native American / East-Asian haplogroups. (A,B,C,D some M and X for maternal) (C and Q for paternal).

    For example with your kit you have a cousin who is C3e paternal, and others that are A and C maternal. So those direct maternal and paternal lines are surely of Native descent.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare3.PNG 
Views:	6 
Size:	8.1 KB 
ID:	1018


    I recently gave a presentation 'Genetic Genealogy Tools: GedMatch and Genome Mate' that covered some of this territory. We posted the presentation slides online: http://www.grandmasgenes.com/downloads/presentations/
    GrandMother - Potter, Jones, Smith, Gates, Walburn, Good, Routh, Redfern, Brower, Bechtel, Buck, Wiley, Beeler, Kyger, Heaton, Stainbrook, Ihinger, McColley, Thomas, Franklin, Warden, Hurst, Schule, Mauler, Weller, Snyder
    GrandFather - Drybread, Wheatley, Marshall, Cotton, Kitchen, Passmore, Harrell, Coppock, Pontius, Zeller, Waters, Charlton, Sager, Barbee, Wimberley, Decker, Nay, Hibbs, Tucker, Irwin, Baker, Cone, Llewellyn, Bayley, Miller->Bunch
    DNA - Parrish, Merritt, White

  7. #22
    You are AWESOME! Thank you so much! I can't wait to play with this some and see more.
    Thank you!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcSnelling View Post
    There are different tools you can use to compare yourself to other kit numbers, or list all your cousin matches.

    A One-To-One will compare you to an individual kit number.

    For example my kit is M223631. A one-one compare of us at default thresholds (7cM, 500SNP) shows no matches.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare0.PNG 
Views:	13 
Size:	24.0 KB 
ID:	1016

    Often I will lower the threshold to 1cM, 500SNP to see smaller matches. Many matches at this level are random in nature. But some of them can be small parts of a large match you share with someone else. For example at this threshold you match my uncle on a small part of chromosome 13.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare.PNG 
Views:	12 
Size:	28.3 KB 
ID:	1015

    To see if it is random you can see if a third person shares any of the match. If I lower the thresholds even more I can see you do have a small match to me in the same place.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare2.PNG 
Views:	11 
Size:	27.9 KB 
ID:	1017

    So I will take this result and look in my Genome Mate database to see if I can find others who match you, me and my uncle in that area of chromosome 13 - to see if it is a traceable match.


    A One-To-Many search with your kit number will list all your cousins in the database.

    If you are looking for a specific surname you can search this list. For example I ran a one-to-many with your kit number and searched for people named Vann and Waters. Didn't find any.

    A GEDCOM + DNA match search will give you all your matches who have posted trees. You can try searching these trees for relevant surnames or locations.

    Another thing you can see in this list is haplogroups. If you are looking specifically for cousins on Native lines you can look for kits with Native American / East-Asian haplogroups. (A,B,C,D some M and X for maternal) (C and Q for paternal).

    For example with your kit you have a cousin who is C3e paternal, and others that are A and C maternal. So those direct maternal and paternal lines are surely of Native descent.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gedMatch_compare3.PNG 
Views:	6 
Size:	8.1 KB 
ID:	1018


    I recently gave a presentation 'Genetic Genealogy Tools: GedMatch and Genome Mate' that covered some of this territory. We posted the presentation slides online: http://www.grandmasgenes.com/downloads/presentations/

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada -unceded Algonquin territory
    Posts
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    Blog Entries
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    Happy to help!

    I had a chance to check my Genome Mate database and found one kit that might help us triangulate our small match: A668253. I don't know this person but they match you and my uncle on the same part of chromosome 13:

    You have a small 5.0cM 805 SNP match between 65M and 72M.
    My uncle has a larger 29.4cM 2965 SNP match between 60M and 94M.

    A match of 29.4cM is estimated around third cousin 1x removed. So I might actually be able to find the common ancestor between A668253 and my uncle. I'll contact the kit owner and see if they have a tree they are willing to share.
    GrandMother - Potter, Jones, Smith, Gates, Walburn, Good, Routh, Redfern, Brower, Bechtel, Buck, Wiley, Beeler, Kyger, Heaton, Stainbrook, Ihinger, McColley, Thomas, Franklin, Warden, Hurst, Schule, Mauler, Weller, Snyder
    GrandFather - Drybread, Wheatley, Marshall, Cotton, Kitchen, Passmore, Harrell, Coppock, Pontius, Zeller, Waters, Charlton, Sager, Barbee, Wimberley, Decker, Nay, Hibbs, Tucker, Irwin, Baker, Cone, Llewellyn, Bayley, Miller->Bunch
    DNA - Parrish, Merritt, White

  9. #24
    I can see that I've got a lot of learning and playing with this to do. Please let me know on the shared ancestor!

    Thank you !


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcSnelling View Post
    Happy to help!

    I had a chance to check my Genome Mate database and found one kit that might help us triangulate our small match: A668253. I don't know this person but they match you and my uncle on the same part of chromosome 13:

    You have a small 5.0cM 805 SNP match between 65M and 72M.
    My uncle has a larger 29.4cM 2965 SNP match between 60M and 94M.

    A match of 29.4cM is estimated around third cousin 1x removed. So I might actually be able to find the common ancestor between A668253 and my uncle. I'll contact the kit owner and see if they have a tree they are willing to share.

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