January 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6530
“The Monacans have only been in the area 300 years” — I thought that was funny. My ancestors were shoved west for 100 years, but have stayed “relatively” put for the last 120 or 150 or so years. But 300 years ago? They are all lost in the mist to me. I don’t know where any of them were that long ago.
What’s this about “Cherokees of the Midwest” wantin’ to claim Monacan are really Cherokee? I never heard that, but I’m lis’nin’ & learnin’.
Most Cherokee I know here in Oklahoma want Eastern Tribes and people to quit claiming to be Cherokee and assert many of the folks in the East were realy descended from other smaller tribes, and they are not Cherokee.
vanceJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6531
I got some unsolicited emails from someone who called himself White Eagle, I believe it was, who said he was Amonsoquath, and then went on at length about how the Monacans are really Cherokees. I’m in no position to know one way or another, but I didn’t appreciate the hostile way it was being broadcast.January 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6532
Hello Vance & Linda!
It’s no secret regarding the Monacans being Cherokee. In the book, “Indian Island”, it has interviews with the Monacan people regarding how they lived most of their life believing they were Cherokee. They do not dispute this claim. However after the book was written they claimed that they are Monacan instead of Cherokee. So “White Feather” probably got his information from the book that was written about the Monacans.
I am not out to disrespect anyone. Personally it doesn’t matter what tribe your ancestors were from, we are all as one, & need to work together. That was the point I was trying to make in my previous post.
Take me as an example, I was told that we are Cherokee, on my mother’s side. My great grandfather said his grandmother was Indian. On her Marriage Bond it clearly states “INTERMARRIAGE”. Even though both bride & groom are listed as white. One ancestor is buried on Shawnee Hill in Vesuvius, Virginia. A book claims we are Tuckahoes & Cohees. Then on my father’s side,
his mother was born on the Pamunkey River. My dads brother looks Indian, but they swear that they aren’t. So, until I can prove otherwise I am Cherokee.
[This message has been edited by CoheeLady (edited 12-11-2002).]January 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6533
Well I guess that explains it pretty well, about the Monacan I mean. Thanks.
If you ask Oklahoma Cherokee tho, you’ll hear “Cherokees were never in Virginia” by some.
From what I’ve been reading it seems maybe they were in SW Va and W Va, & probably made war party trips up there from time to time. But they were not home, jut there a short while and left. Is that what ya’ll think? I might be wrong, ya know . . .
vanceJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6534
I know someone who can make quite a case that there were Cherokee in Virginia. He’s something of a maverick researcher. He also believes a lot of what we assume were Powhatan tribes were really Siouan, based on the linguistics.
The western part of the state is awfully close to the generally accepted Cherokee range, isn’t it? And territories shifted so much. I wouldn’t say they were “never” in VA, personally.January 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6535
To Vance & Linda,
I know how some people feel about there being Cherokee’s in Virginia, some people in Va. don’t even believe it. However times have changed & the ones that think it’s only a myth are few. In 1835 the boundaries were changed & Virginia was no longer a part of Cherokee Country as it had been, legally. But the people were still Cherokee, a boundary change can’t take away your true ancestry, only cover it up.
Due to many intermarriages with Europeans the Cherokee’s of Virginia exist today in a large number. We can’t discount someone’s heritage, due to their ancestor’s choice of a husband or wife. On the Virginia Council of Indians there is a Cherokee representitive. This to me is a big step in the right direction & a sign of respect to the Cherokee population of Virginia. I am glad I lived long enough to see it!
Vance I am glad to know that I could help you understand the Monacan Cherokee story. Also, Linda I want to thank you very much for your kind words in regards to Virginia Cherokees.
CoheeladyJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6536
Hello All, what a question to postulate over, Cherokees in VA?,
When I was researching materials in the Smithsonian, I found a northern style purse typical of the MicMAc etc, listed as made by a Cherokee lady from VA, also I have a good friend that has a basket her grandmother made as a girl when she lived in VA, perhaps a reference book to tribal territories could answer this question. Certainly the Cherokee people were as high up as the Ohio and down near the Okeefenokee swamp, so probably VA aswell. Alll the best TomJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6537
Thanks for the information on the research you did at the Smithsonian. It is silly to question the existance of Cherokee’s in Virginia, but it has been done for years. After the boundary change in the 1800’s Va. was no longer Cherokee territory. So all those that stayed behind were no longer officially Cherokee. If someone has Cherokee ancestry at birth, you can’t take it away, simple as that. Thanks again for your kind words!
CoheeladyJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6538
If you go to http://www.cherokee.org you will find on their home page what’s called “Cutural Tidbits”. It states, “BECAUSE OF OUR TREATY STATUS, THE DISTINCTION OF BEING CHEROKEE IS A STATUS OF CITIZENSHIP, NOT A RACIAL ISSUE.”
This is the site of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.
CoheeladyJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6724
To answer some of the first issues raised on this thread with some new data, I’ve just been told there is documentation at Six Nations of people called Blackfoot who joined them in the 18th century, after coming up from Virginia.
This is another bit of documentation showing that the use of the word “Blackfoot” to describe VA Indians was in use a century or more before the word became popular in usage after the Wild West shows of the 1890s.
Also, the idea that it’s unlikely the word would have been used as a straight translation right off the bat without any corruption is dispelled by the usage out west. Both the Blackfoot Sioux (Sihisapa) and the Algonquin Blackfoot usally associated with the name (Siksika) went straight to the English translation without a hitch. Why should it be any different here? If Sihisapa means Black foot, then why shouldn’t they too, switch to the English translation as readily as the other two groups?January 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6726
Also the mention of the “Blackfoot” Church (historically stated as having that name because of the Blackfoot Indians living nearby)in Pike County, Indiana dated to the end of the 18th century, to me that means the 1790s probably. My ancestors were near there about that time and we have proof of it. Oour ancestors before this were in Virginia where the Eastern Blackfoot also were. It is possible this is a coincidence. But I think it is more than that now. A year ago I might not have said that. I am ready to accept more things now, than I was then.
I think this speaks of a migration that eventually wound up in Arkansas and Missouri, as this is where my ancestors went and it is the rout the northern branch of my ancestors took. My southern migration was undoubtably Chickamauga Cherokee, but these other people undoubtedly were not, I’m prertty sure, and they mixed with the Cherokee. Also I have seen others say their “Blackfoot” ancestors mixed with the “Cherokee”, and I think I have discovered that happened to out family as well.
I am grateful to everyone here for helping me discover these things.
And it is important and good to be skeptical, because there are charlaitans out there who will take advantage of our desire to find our ancestors. I have just come full circle I think — from being gullible and believing all the groups out there and their claims, to disbelieving most of the groups who are not federally recognized, to thinking now there is a lot of truth found and I don’t know much of it! 🙂
The only way to discover what is true and what is not is historical research, I think. But I might be wrong here too.
So there was a migration of Eastern Blackfoot to the Six Nations too, huh? Is seems ALL the Eastern tribes either died out and intermixed in the East, or went North to Canada/Six Nartions, or fled to the Ozarks and winding up near Missouri, Arkansas, or Oklahoma doesn’t it? Too many people have heard these family stories and can back it up with other things, for it to not be true.
vance hawkinsJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #6728
go to this web site for a description of a fake group calling itself Cherokee, this time in Massachussettes of all places! CNO and EBC and UKB constantly have to put up with stuff like this.
Sometimes they don’t know what is real and what is not, and generalize about the unenrolled just as many unenrolled generalize about the enrolled. Both us and them need to quit generalizing and take each situation on its own merit.
vanceJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #7568
Bringing forwardJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #21113
I have been reading these threads and can see good constructive conflict here, much creativity comes from conflict, as long a we are all striving for the same thing, truth. There is a wealth of information in the individuals on this site and I really am enjoying learning so much about the Saponi/Blackfoot. A little personal history; I was born in Kalispell, Montana. My maternal grandfather was a cattle/sheep rancher in Lone Pine, which is on the Flathead reservation. Just over the hill (Glacier Park) is Browning, which is the hub you could say of the Blackfeet reservation. My mother drove school bus there for many years. My mother told me my father was Blackfeet, and as a person from that part of the country, I automatically thought, “Oh, Montana Blackfoot” (I did not meet my father until I was 18, and knew nothing of him). Later I found out my father was from West Virginia and his mother’s family from the Grundy area of Virginia. My first thought was Blackfoot? Virginia? Then I happened upon this site and have found so many answers, though not enough to end the search. I commend all of you for hepling the novice, such as myself to learn more and to keep digging, Thanks.
ShirleyJanuary 2, 2002 at 2:34 pm #21115
hello and welcome to SAponi Town if I hadn’t done so already, I too live in the land of crooked trees and chinook winds,
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