Blackfoot/Tuckahoe

truesaponi wrote: Linda,

I have been able to decipher some of her “greek” because I have taken several linguistic classes in graduate school and because I have also taken and been very successful in a few Lakhota classes, which is very similar to Tutelo. I have also corresponded with her since 1995. If you would ask specific questions about the grammar I might be able to give you specific answers. First of all, Tutelo and all Siouan languages are Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) languages. Let me give you a few examples, ignoring the stress and length of the vowels. By the way a colon ( means that the length of the vowel is twice the length of a short vowel.

Anyway my example:

Wa:kta’:ka kiN pi:wa ‘the man is good’

man the good-real

Subject def-art verb

Vs.

Wa:kta:’ka pi: kiN ‘the good man’

man good the

Subject verb def art

In the first example the fact that the man is good is a state of being thus he is verbalized he is being good. The second example does not include a verb, it is the equivilant to what we would call an adjective in English. One might ask the good man did what.

Wa:kta:’ka pi: kiN ophe’:wa ‘the good man goes enters’

This can get quite complex. I have spent numerous days and hours on this and will be happy to answer questions if you have them. I might not be able to answer all of them, but I feel that I am fairly competent in the language.

Thought this thread interesting…

itconani wrote: Hau tom

i have not read your whole line of comments, but assume you know your stuff!

clarity on triracials –

the southeast is a special region, unlike other areas of the continent. The idea of being “less than” is no where in my mind. I claim triracial and biracial descent. many groups from the south are 500 years into intermarriage – similiar to the Metis on your side of the border. please keep in mind that many of these groups identify themselves as indian, even with triracial backgrounds. Not less as a people – just more history of many cultures colliding.

Check out Anthony J. Paredes on southeastern indians of the 20th century, or the last chapter of Charles Hudson’s The Southeastern Indians.

On Cherokee / Blackfoot – no idea if your not from here. maybe a long history of migration (several hundred years?) i thought you had traced yourself back to this neck of the woods.

tuckahoe is interesting though. that is one of many powhatan algonquian “loan words” in the english language. the root is proto algonqian /*takw-/ ‘pound fine, bray, beat, to a powder’ identical in cree, ojibway, shawnee, menominee, delware, and powhatan algonquian dialects. This is homophonous with and perhaps related by semantic extension to the PA (proto algonquian) root /*takw-/ “among or between 2 particulars (pound?), together’

following this is the transitive PA /*-ah-/ ‘by instrument or tool, noun finallized PEA (proto eastern Algonquian) /*ahkw-/ ‘taproot, bole, large root, and trunk’. Many variations beyond this on bread, pounding, roots etc. Check out Frank T.

Siebert, Jr. on Algonquian architypes.

The prescence of arrow arrum from florida texas northward to maine and new york and southern ontario makes this a widespread usage word – and that roots were used for meal long before introduction of maize from the south.

however, since english observers first encountered it in va, powhatan takes credit for the loan in english. hence a special significance to “Tuckahoe” indians in this region. im excited about this term because it is less used than other cultural markers for indian descents.

Ofo and Biloxi are definately our sioun people from the south – along with other major dialects of Catawba, Quapaw, tutelo, and woccon.

However, according the linguistic work done by Horatio Hale (1870)(1883), the Rev. Joseph Anderson (1872), Leo Frachtenburg (1907)(1913), and Edward Sapir (1911)(1913) the closest Sioun to Tutelo (saponi dialect) is Dakota and maybe hidatsa. In a macro view of migration, this lends to the idea of a very early prehistory in the ohio valley region. ( side note: cahokia is thought to have been Dakota linguistically) from there, migration carried the proto group out at different points into different directions.

On garters –

deffinately garters, portion preserved is about 2 inches in width, maybe 8 inches lon. geometric x’s or diamonds in a fingerweave, i believe. ill say garter do to its orientation in situ, however i guess the bandolier is not out of the question. this period along the nottoway and meherrin rivers shows alot of european trade – however shot and firarms were not at the site same circa. Hence, no bandoliers for powder at that time at that site. Garters were documented in use, as was other english broadcloth. Preservation is poor for botanicals here – this piece was saved because of placement near copper.

Linda –

lots of references ill make time next to connect you with authors and publications. you really need to know these folks because they wrote or have written the most on Virginia / carolina earlier years of colonization and susequent indian history / culture / maps.

mostly about Algonquian – but similiar in geography and cultural material. Siouns mentioned as are iroquois of area. more later.

[Quote] However, according the linguistic work done by Horatio Hale (1870)(1883), the Rev. Joseph Anderson (1872), Leo Frachtenburg (1907)(1913), and Edward Sapir (1911)(1913) the closest Sioun to Tutelo (saponi dialect) is Dakota and maybe hidatsa. In a macro view of migration, this lends to the idea of a very early prehistory in the ohio valley region. ( side note: cahokia is thought to have been Dakota linguistically) from there, migration carried the proto group out at different points into different directions.

This is really an interesting thread 🙂