August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #31902
i’m considering on having the DNA test done to just see what the results turn out to beAugust 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #31967
I’d like to weigh in here, on DNA, a little. It’s so complex that I cannot claim to know but a little bit about it. However, I had Dr. Malhi, the genetic scientist who discovered and studied the last ancient NA man in Washington State, speak to our Society a few years back. With his discovery and research, he added the new Haplotype of “X” for Native Americans. Unlike me, he sure know exactly what he is talking about.
As far as I recall, he did state that there is a DNA test that will, indeed, tell you what kind of NA American you are and what percentage along with all your Anglo (English, Welsh, Irist, etc.) DNA. The only drawback is that it does not report any DNA results of less than 3%. It is also somewhat expensive. But, if you are NA of 3% or less, it will not report those findings even though you descend from NA ancestors.
Just thought I’d add this. Google Dr. Malhi for futher details. By the way, he has the largest NA DNA database in America. I’ve lost track of him but he was affiliated with the University of California at Davis.
ClydeneAugust 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #31986
vance hawkins wrote: Hi All,
This is not just to you but to many, it just so happens that you are the person who brought this up this time.
I am envious of mixed-blood Indian people in the East. Yall can go up to someone and say “I’m Indian” without someone eyeballing you from head to toe and replying “No you aren’t!” Then laughing as they turn and walk away. They are accustomed to seeing full bloods.
There is such a wide gulf between my experiences and the things I hear on the internet. Maybe it is an unfathomable gap. I took a trip East so I could understand yall better. I wish some of yall might come out here to see where I am coming from, a little better.
I am not sure what you mean by “full blood”. Perhaps the term means different things in different places. I learned that “better” on my trip East. Many times on many boards this topic of full bloods being practically extinct has come up, and it seems that this as acccepted as truth by many. Since I have had full blood neighbors since I was a child (I’m 52 now), this is sort of a pet peeve of mine. Maybe I’m just jealous because I can’t get away with claiming to be Indian as yall can. In Oklahoma, South Dakota, New Mexico, Arizona, and probably a few other places, there are still a great many full bloods. But there never were a lot of Indian people.
Here in Oklahoma, it just means “full blood Indian”. This might have been meant to include those adopted into the tribe in earlier times, but not today because of federal intervention into tribal laws.
Also, someone might be enrolled as “full-blood” Creek but in reality they might be part Navajo (the families might have met at a Pow-wow) or part Kiowa or part something else. These are mixed in historic times, without mentioning probable mixing with other tribes before 1 or 200 years ago. The term “Full Blood” has never met anything else to most Indian peoples. It never has “literally” meant “full Blood Creek”.
So when people say they are full blood, it is with those exceptions mentioned above as being implied. To many Indian people this is understood at a young age.
I invite you (or anyone) to come to any Oklahoma Pow-Wow — all (or nearly all) the dancers will “apear” to be very much full blood Indian, as will many (probably most) of the visitors in attendance. Those of us who are 1/8th or 1/4th will stick out like a sore thumb.
I desperately want people from the East to come out here and visit a Western Pow-Wow.
You know, Vance, even some of us 1/2 bloods stick out against the FBs. Been there often and done that. I live it daily, in fact.August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #32023
I have not yet had my DNA tested, but have paid for my father to have his done through FTDNA. Unfortunately, his side of the family is not where we suspect our Native American heritage. Even so, I do have a neat story to tell. My father is almost 81 years old and the last living member of his family. He was orphaned as a teenager and his only sibling–sister died more than 10 years ago. So I had his DNA tested on both the paternal (full 67 markers) and maternal (both levels: mtdna plus) lines. To date I have found no paternal matches (and there is more to this story below) and I have found 1 maternal match, but have never gotten back an email response from this gentleman nor can I find him on Switchboard.
In doing my research, I found back in 2001 that my dad’s great-grandfather was born a to a widowed woman. Her husband had died in 1836 and he was born in 1842, but he was still given her married surname. At the time I had received copies of both of his marriages from Scotland only to discover he had given his real father’s name on them. From there I was able to trace this man and his family (or at least I think I have the right man) and have since corresponded with his descendants. About a month ago we exchanged some ancestral photos and the resemblance is quite striking (this after corresponding off and on since 2001). I was then able to convinve them to participate also in the DNA testing process. In about 1 month or sooner we should have the results on the 12 marker test.
On to my ancestry; I do plan to have my DNA tested also. But I may be so far down the chain that my Native American heritage may not even show up. I am not sure how you calculate the percentage or fraction; but here would be my ancestry:
1. (N)Etheldred Godwin/Peggy Ball (she is the one we believe to be 100% Cherokee/Blackfoot)
2. Margaret Godwin/George W. Sabin
3. Maria E. Sabin/James K.P. Smith
4. Charles J. Smith/Flora M/ Belt
5. Fred R. Smith/living Grandma (turns 91 next week)
6. Anita M. Smith/living father (will be 81 in Jan)
Note: we now believe our ancestor Peggy Ball to be the right person as I have corresponded with 3 others in our large family (all of whom do not know each other). The other 2 people have pointed to Elizabeth Godwin Thomas who is the sister to Margaret Godwin Sabin and all us of share the same story of either Cherokee or Blackfoot.August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #32027
Interesting! Here in Vallejo, CA we have a Pow Wow that is put on by the Inter Tribal Council that my Choctaw friend founded. Anyone of any Tribe and any percentage, enrolled or not, can take part in the Council or Pow Wow. I guess we are a little bit more liberal but some of our dancers have blue eyes. Our Mayors openly support NA activities in our city. By the way, we are the City that went broke – seems to be more politics with an effort to bust unions than how much money we have….the City Council signed an agreement with the union that they could not live up to so they filed bankruptsy instead of paying out the retirements too policemen and firemen…….but that’s another subject entirely…..ha ha. Back to the subject.
This is just my opinion but for those of us who are mixed blood, we are diverse. We are from two worlds and love both of them – devoting time to both. The FB’s, of course, are of the Indian World and devote much more time and effort to Tribal Customs & Laws. Therefore, in Oklahoma, you are likely to find more Full Blood participation at the Pow Wows. I don’t think that they deny us our percentage of Indian Blood – just that they also understand our diversity and that our every effort is not to sustain the Tribe as theirs is. They play a very important roll dealing with the Feds every single day to try to sustain the rights of the Indian. I appreciate them as the Tribes and rights would have been gone long ago had they not been steadfast in their efforts.
And, Yes, Vance is correct – many Full Bloods are percentages of different Tribes because of the custom of not marrying into their own clan. While this builds a healthy DNA chain, it sure makes it difficult to trace Indian genealogy…ha ha.
So, if the Eastern and Western Tribes had a Pow Wow, there will be a lot of differences in all subject areas. I think that this is just the way it is because of the development over the past 400 years.
ClydeneAugust 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35881
roca;25618 wrote: Had several tests done last month by dnatribes.com.
Results were delivered by e-mail and were downloaded into pdfs readable by Adobe Acrobat.
I believe (?) there are over 700 populations in their database.They match one’s DNA against said populations.
The 1st test listed my top 20 matches relative to native populations,global
populations,and world region.( 3 separate charts) Summing up,I showed strong matching with various African-American,Flemish,German, Guinea-Bissau,and Equatorial Guinea populations.
Because of my triracial background,I also had both African and Native American panels drawn also to show the top 20 matches in those categories.
The African panel showed highest matching with several Guinea-Bissau and Equatorial Guinea groups.
The Native American panel showed highest matching (trace possibility) to
3 Sioux-Chippewa groups in Minnesota.
The testing might not show exactly who one’s descended from since the
database only has 700 (?)+- populations listed.
Anyone else had experience with DNA Tribes?
Long time 😀
Well, I took the big leap and FINALLY invested in a DNA test (DNATribes). If you like, I could send you an email to show the results. I am still trying to figure it all out. However, the following is the link to my homemade video:
Enjoy!August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35882
I retested with DNA Tribes in 2009 and earlier this year.
The 2009 test used more markers (21) than in 2007. My highest matches were with Central and Eastern European populations.
So,in 2007 they had me as a “black” man and in 2009 as a “white” man. (?)
A month ago,I submitted my raw data from 23 and Me to DNA Tribes for their new SNP report which also estimated one’s continental ancestries. They put me down as:
53.44% Sub-Saharan African
1.69% South Asian
1.05% Middle EasternAugust 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35883
Was it a free service where you could find out your percentages?
Do you already know about the link below:
Do you understand my results?August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35884
1_optimistic;36400 wrote: Hi Roca,
Was it a free service where you could find out your percentages?
Do you already know about the link below:
Do you understand my results?
My latest test with DNA Tribes wasn’t free. It was $99US. They processed it rapidly;I submitted,
paid,and the analysis was delivered by e-mail the same day.
I don’t know about that link.
Not sure if I understand your results. Interesting video!August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35885
Okay, so your SNP results were based on raw data you already had from 23andme and DNATribes only charge $99? That may be something I will get in the near future. I would rather have a simple breakdown like yours.
Thanks Roca!August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35887
I’m afraid to ask…August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35888
Three Crows;36404 wrote: I’m afraid to ask…
Afraid to ask what?August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35889
Hey Erica and Roca, are either of you planning on coming down for the Occoneechee pow wow May 14th? I mass mailed to everybody on the site. Did you all receive? I’m not sure if the sent.August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35890
I hope you and yours are doing well.
I am planning to go, but there has been a death in my family and I am not sure if the memorial will be this Saturday or next in Baltimore, MD. I hope I will be able to go to the Pow Wow because it has been 2 years (I’ve been in school and dealing with other things).
Oh, I just realized it is on May 14th not the 7th. Whew! Yes, I will be there!!!;);)August 3, 2005 at 8:00 pm #35891
Great! Did you see an email from me about it, though?
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