December 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11887
There were people known as the “Chickasaw Traders” that seemed to be in the same region as the Saponi (Va/NC border). One of those links mentioned Lawrence and Colbert counties in North Alabama. One man researching the origin of the Chickasaw Colbert’s said James Logan Colbert (father of the Chickasaw surname) — it was said of him his mother was descended from James Logan, one of those Chickasaw traders — and he lived right there at one of those 3 islands on that river where the Saponi were — forget the name. I researched this because my ancestors lived in the Chickasaw Nation here in Oklahoma, but other branches also seem to have been with/near the Saponi on many occasions in earlier days. Lawrence County Alabama was ceded from both the Cherokee and the Chickasaw in 1818 as it was claimed by both until that time. That one article mentioned Creek (Muskogee) and Cherokee having conflicting interests in that region but failed to mention the Chickasaw had as good a claim as either the Creek or Cherokee.
After researching quite a bit, I think some of those “Chickasaw traders” may have been mixed blood Virginia Indians, possibly Saponi.
Now I’m gonna have to look at a map and see where Greene County, Ohio is. Is that where “Xenia” is? My Richeys sort of dead end with a g-g-g-grandpa according to census records, b. 1797 in Va. — can’t find his parents. If mine connect to those in Ohio, maybe there is a lead there I can search. Thanks. Also I was told Dickson and Dixon were the same surname (the mother of my “Mary Polly Wood(s) (b. 1796)was a Nancy Dickson), Mary Wood(s) was born near Holston River in E Tn., but we don’t know where her mother, Nancy Dickson was born. Again, thanks.
vanceDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11899
Is that the confluence of the Staunton and the Roanoke that you’re referring to?December 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11907
Thank you for that info on the traders. I need to find more to read on that sometime…right now I am working these long days and am so tired I can’t think..I sat down five minutes ago and am just about asleep! Take care,
🙂 sue JDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11908
Linda, I think that was where you said you were now living, but I am not 100% sure. Someone recently was looking into the “Colbert” surname and I posted quite a lot about it, I think in both genealogy and history areas. The reseacher was an Oklahoma Chickasaw I believe. Again details might be off. I amonly online 1/2 an hour per day so I don’t have much time to read my mail and respond.
Saj, hope it was helpful. Part of my family took a similar route to N Alabama, but went to Ark and IT (Ok) afterwards.
VanceDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11910
Below is the link and the post found on the History forum that I was talking about. —
The person creating the website above is trying to research the origin of the Chickasaw Colbert’s and says —
———————- quote —————-
According to COLBERT family tradition, a man named “James LOGAN” was the grandfather of James COLBERT. Given the similarity of names, plus the fact that Chickasaw traders lived at Quankey Creek, Occoneechee Neck and on Plumbtree Island, circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that this James LOGAN was indeed the grandfather of James Logan COLBERT.
Additional information on James LOGAN comes from F.B.KEGLEY in his book KEGLEY’S VIRGINIA FRONTIER. In it he describes some of the earliest settlers on “the southwest frontier below the mountains” in Virginia.
“On the south side of the James below the mountains the frontier at this time was represented by the Welsh settlement on the Mcherrin; Col.BYRD’s improvements on the Roanoke above Sandy Creek, including the three charming islands, Sapponi, Occoneechee and Totero; Major MUNFORD’s Quarter near-by; Col.BYRD’s Land of Eden on the Dan and Major MAYO’s Survey adjoining; Richard and William KENNON’s grant on Cub Creek which supplied farmsteads for John CALDWELL’s Presbyterian Colony…
“On the South eastern creeks were…Joseph COLSON at Major MUMFORD’s…and Peter MITCHELL, the highest inhabitant on Roanoke River, about six miles above the fork.Among the first to become settled on Cub Creek were John and William CALDWELL, James LOGAN…”(37)
—————- end of quote ————–
VanceDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11912
Yes, that passage is describing Mecklenburg county where I now live and some adjoining counties. Byrd and Mumford owned some of the first plantations.December 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11951
Linda, I am thinking I wanna research more about possible mixed blood Virginia Indians who might have settled on the Tennessee River in Northern Alabama and might have mixed with either the Cherokee or Chickasaw. That too, might be the origin of the “Blackfoot/Cherokee”, or one of them anyhow. If this is the case, they moved to N Alabama before 1800 and some went to Kentucky after that, maybe the 1830s at the time of the removal. Colbert’s might be just one of several families that fit this scenario.
It would be hard — maybe impossible — to prove tho.
vanceDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11960
You may have already been thru this, but I only found two “possibles”…. not “good” matches, but….
There is another listing for a Joseph Butts in 1880 Greene Co., Oh., in the Sugar Creek District, besides the listing you cited.
A 15 yr old son of George (53, Va) and Mary (43, Oh.). Bear with me here…. They were in 1870 Guernsey Co., Oh., where Joseph is listed as 5, consistent with the 15 y/o in 1880 and a seeming “mismatch” to the Joseph T. you’re looking for….. my point here is that a person “working out” was probably really “working out” in the fields when the census taker came by and the lady of the house didn’t really know that much about the hired hands……
A second possibility is a Joseph T. BUTZ, 10, b. Oh., son of Andrew, 46 (widowed), b. Pa., in 1870 Stark Co., Oh., Bethlehem Twp (your’s is listed on the 1900 census as born October 1860 in Va.).
Not “great” matches but they might bear more research if you haven’t already. Sorry I couldn’t do more.
BillDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11968
Thanks for the additional info. I will keep those in mind when I receive his death record.
I did look for some more census records after my earlier posting and found them in Dayton, Montgomery County, Ohio in 1920 and 1930. And, then I found him in the online Ohio Death Certificate Index, 1913 – 1937:
Name: BUTTS JOSEPH T
County Name: MONTGOMERY
Date of Death: 2/18/1933
Volume Number: 7145
Certificate Number: 11305
I am going to send for this. I am hoping it will have his place of birth and parents’ names and maybe we can see if this family links up to Techteach’s family.
StaceyDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11969
I looked for Joseph Butts in my Green genealogy. There are several. They are earlier than yours, though, but one had a date that caused me to see if he seemed to be the father of yours. The wife’s name does not match though. They start off in Berkeley County, VA, now WVA and go with the Greens to Licking County. A few go on to Kansas and maybe several other places. I have not followed them closely, as they splinter from my direct line and marry sisters and brothers of my Green ancestors. I skimmed their part of “The Green Tree.” That was why it surprised me to find one in my direct line.
TechteachDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11970
Well i’ll try this, Kinnon in NC and Ga, Raines in NC, SC, GA, and Fla., Walker in WV, Carte in Ohio and WV. BluejoyDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11976
Thanks. I will keep those in mind too when I receive Joseph’s death record. The last time I sent for one, it took about a month for me to get it. I will let you know what I find out.
In regards to the Greens, I checked my file and suprised to see that I had one in there. My grandpa’s cousin (Walter DAVIS, b. 1898 in Kokomo, Indiana) was married to Pauline HUBBARD (b. 1899 in Kokomo). Pauline’s grandmother was Eliza GREEN (b. 1820 in Indiana). Online family trees have her as a daughter to Daniel GREEN (b. 1783 in North Carolina) and Nancy VARDAMAN (b. 1789 in South Carolina).
StaceyDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11980
I only see Davis, but no Walter in “The Green Tree.” I ought to say that this is where I find the Butts too.
TechteachDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11986
On the Chickasaw traders…there were two Moses Meltons father and son.
And today I found more on James Allen Chickasaw agent, son of William allen born about 1720-1725 in Va. James born about 1760 in Va. Went via NC and followed the Natchez Trace. died in Toccopola, Chickasaw Indian Territory, Pontotocco, Ms. There was a reference to William allen, Cherokee trader, described in 1799 as being “too old to be of service”..James was a subagent to Malcolm McGee. Married Susan Colbert and then Betsy Love..I don’t know if he is of the same Allen line as mine but I don’t know how many Williams in Va in early 1700’s were not either. It seems every Robert had a William. etc. There was one in the right line born 1725…there was also another trader Jim Allen and the two Allens owned a tavern together and both belonged to the Monroe church in MS. The daughter of James Allen and susan Colbert, Margaret “Peggy” Allen married Simon Burney in IT.
Making some progress..will post more on traders as I find..
Sue JDecember 3, 2003 at 2:13 am #11990
From “Passports of Southeastern Pioneers, 1770-1823”, by Dorothy Williams Potter, pg. 329:
“…….. Knoxville, 11th March 1797
My instructions from the Honorable the Secretary of War require that I report to you the names of all persons residing in the Cherokee country not natives of the land.
For this purpose I have collected the following Schedule of their names & employments which I am induced to believe is tolerable accurate.”
(on that list)
Name: “William ALLEN”
“Old, condemned as unfit for service.”
A “Dutch” Trader, Benjamin Hawkins is also on this list as is “Thomas Gess, esq., English, A Magistrate under the territorial goverment”
(this document ends as…..)
“The blanks in the Nation column are either Americans or unknown. Those whose characters are noted in the third column I have represented according to the best information I have been able to receive.
I am very respectfully, Sir,
His excellency Governor Sevier”
Same source, pg.248:
Tuesday 31st October 1809
That passports be prepared for the following persons to travel through the Creek Nation of Indians – to wit – one for Doctor John Smylie, and one for William and Eason Allen the former with his family
….. which were presented and signed.”
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