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November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #4186
well I have been wondering where to put this info so people looking can find it easy. I have put this on a few sites in order to spread the word around for other
“indian” researchers , if the researcher is searching ,, shawnee or cherokee chickasaw choctaw creek or a even few other even older concepts …, who are researching mixed tribes and and mixed tribes people.. who may or may not be famous as one tribe or another. I have put this basic info on a few sites just because sites disappear and so does info . so I wanted to get this info spread around to as many people who as children remember
kings emperors and even “princesses” and famous governors in their family as possible, and I am not jokin.. because that is exactly how I remembered it when I was a kid and I don’t won’t blaqme any child for having those kind of memories either!!!
so
this man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hamilton_(governor) of many places including Quebec and North west territory
who drew these
http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hou00125
was as best I can recall the father in law of Shoeboots AKA Turtle at Home’s ( you can search info about John boggs wife’s mother’s father who was a famous Governor. but it seems everyone had forgot who the Governor was.. I just remembered it !
and it all fit’s very well everything that is recorded about these individuals . except they are suggesting that Henry hamilton never had any marriages until he was 70 years old.. that is probaqbly a bit old for a virgin governor.. so the wikipedia probably should have said his first ” legally recorded child and marriage” was at 72 years old… as that is not likely the first time he picked or poked a lady..
if you know what a Cherokee paint clan male can look like no matter the dads , and you know what cherokee leaders were wearing in that era, it is pretty easy to pick out the real cherokee there in spite of the fact some goof ball thinks it is a white guy, oh gee what is new!!!!!! that has to be Shoeboots and he is a fullblooded native , probably a U5b2 of mixed tribal connections , his mother was an Ollie -Alleg- Allegewi- Aleshiya- Elishah -Elisani -Ellisippus etc etc etc , it is said many ways in many languages now days etc.. ..
so what is kind of cool is It appears GOV Henry Hamilton is the one who actually gave his son in law Shoeboots ( at that age Shoeboots is called
‘White Owls Son” just means JR.)and also a pair of red boots for his bother what will become their famous red showy boots that the white folks will later come to know him by those same red boots in his older age .
here is that record
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/rot…ple/canoe.html
So Gov Henry Hamilton supplies Cherokee with guns and money for scalps . and has an unrecorded marriage to probably a creek woman( or mixed muskogee speakers) as stated in Boggs family who says “creek “( and I think that is what grandma was saying about the creeks too ) the Boggs who also settled in Florida . now even Shoeboot’s dad and Cornstock dies living with the Creeks in that time frame .
It appears there is some connections to and between the North west territory-Detroit and Pensacola Florida in that time frame with all these people and even possible connections to the Onondaga around Canada or NY with the Shawnee and many more tribes all involved .
Gov Hamilton was Governor many places . some of which are the Bahamas and the island of Dominica in the end of his life and so if any one anywhere out in the Caribbean is trying to find a genetic dna or oral history of Cherokee connections and ancestors somehow out there .. finding a link to where Gov Hamilton was is probably a good bet for some very strong Caribbean and Cherokee connections.
maybe that will help someone someday , I hope so ! and that is just the start of the story..
( Ps it also proves that you can’t believe everything you read or the conclusions drawn about natives or the allies , because it says Henry Hamilton only had one child at 70+ years old.. dang what an old virgin! and they want everyone to believe he was 70 before he ever picked or poked a woman ? of course the wiki should say ” his first documented marriage and child ” but it doesn’t do that ! so also don’t believe where people say cherokee are and are not , because they do not know what they are talking about! and don’t believe who they say cherokee are either by dna as they seem to be calling Shoeboots a white guy even in that photo at that site ! so don’t believe much of what you read about native americans.. it is sucky political bs..) most of his offspring are denied citizenship in OK years before the Dawes rolls even come about . just the politics of ugly … and I don’t know if it was the same ol politics going on in eastern band or not so maybe there is nore of his offsping there I don’t know .. but I suspect many more of his offspring may have ended up there . just maybe.. but I suspect most aren’t on any rolls for many reasons.. but maybe it was always for the best someway only God can know.
so I have spent many years trying to find Shoeboots very first family, just beause grandma told me about them too.. I wish I could have found his sisters too but I just can’t remember.. and this is as close to it as I am going to get to it I am afraid i have run out of those childhood stories and memories . the names walker and walkingstick and boggs and Mary polly/ polly parrot . and a few more are as close as I can get at this time…. to find his picture was amazing and I am very excited about it. it will be hung in our house along with his dad and grandads pictures.
I had already found Attakullkulla and Oconostota and I wish I would have found a picture of Ollie or even Nancy Moytoy and a few more ladies names can’t remember now nanny and nono or nini ( or heck there is just sounds now ,kind of like that ) and other noises/indian names I have long forgot , but finding all my childhood hero’s pictures of my Ideas of my ” indian princess’s ” wasn’t in the works,, but it seems I found a few of the most infamous Characters imaginable, who were at least as big bold and brave and funny!!!!!! as I remember , but not all of the hero’s and heroines (sp?) do I remember .
what I know for sure is , I can say for sure,
” apples do not fall far from a tree”
reading the records of Attakullkulla drunk was like reading my sisters life story..gee are those two peas in a pod or what .. reading about Shoeboots and his missing Clarinda that he was a “Snapping turtle at home” and miserable with out his family , sounded just like my dad’s life..
so I hope someone enjoys this and I hope that somehow my brick walls fills in some of blanks for some one else’s brick walls.. because it proves
at least part mixed tribe /AKA cherokee indians were everyplace … so don’t let them tell you where “real indians” were or were not. ok.. because the politics of ugly has been playing with us for way too long.
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36259Nannanae, Have you researched this Hamilton family much more? I am related to a Robert Shaw Hamilton son of Thomas Hamilton who founded Hamilton Station in the Nashville TN area(?). I know they settled in the Pecan Bayou TX area near now Paris, Red River Co., TX. Many of those who traveled with this family went on to OK. Robert was the penner of the TX Declaration of Independence. He was also, a Captain of the Light Horsemen. This would relate to the Chickasaw and or Choctaw.
Does any of this make sense to your research?
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36262NO actually I am a awful researcher and just wanted to provide what I do remember so people can find their famous families or could it be find out why some indians hated your family ๐ really I am an awful researcher especially if I don’t know what I am looking for first!
I don’t have a clue what all names may have been used , sometimes to hide who people were.
and I am a really lousy researcher unless I know first what I’m looking for. and yes there are some very good chickasaw Connections that I can’t really prove , if you need that info.
if you do a google search using the words “Red King” I think and “Hair lip” you should find it someplace . one of the unnamed pictures done by Hamilton is of a hair lip with a Turbin like thing on his head. it says walking and or wandering person .. . this is a relations of Shoeboots. is either a brother or a brothers son or maybe his sisters sons . and he is called a name like Tuskingo ,Tuchihingo( sp????????? Tuskihigo so it says in that document When talking to RED KING it means “hair lip” it might even be translated as “going snake..” I’m not positive of that , I thought that name meant “horse..” (well Someones name someplace in the family means ‘horse..” or horse thief ) and so you can see with the communication there in those documents with RED king. That the man named Hair lip is very respected with the Chickasaw as representative/ ambassador like of that family group . and IF he is really ‘ going snake’ or son of going snake he is also very respected in the Creeks and maybe Choctaw too under that name. which also points to there being family connections in those places maybe.
so some good questions is like is RED King really maybe Pumpkin Boy ? then Shoeboots sister is Pumpkin boys wife and he is king of creeks and or Chickasaw who later became part of the Creeks. SO when Pumpkin boy dies he very wealthy and they have a daughter . so …..see we can trace these things in circles forever and spellings and translations of words and forcing of things political in boxes that may or may not ever be admitted.. and that can drive you insane….. just a lot of stuff has been forgot and Don’t stuff get forgot on purpose usually? so can anyone really put it back right now or even close ? probably not so much.
no I am am really a lousy reseacher. because I see things that maybe aint there and sometimes can or can’t prove ๐ either way I can get in big trouble ;P
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36267Nannanae;36891 wrote: NO actually I am a awful researcher and just wanted to provide what I do remember so people can find their famous families or could it be find out why some indians hated your family ๐ really I am an awful researcher especially if I don’t know what I am looking for first!
I don’t have a clue what all names may have been used , sometimes to hide who people were.
and I am a really lousy researcher unless I know first what I’m looking for. and yes there are some very good chickasaw Connections that I can’t really prove , if you need that info.
if you do a google search using the words “Red King” I think and “Hair lip” you should find it someplace . one of the unnamed pictures done by Hamilton is of a hair lip with a Turbin like thing on his head. it says walking and or wandering person .. . this is a relations of Shoeboots. is either a brother or a brothers son or maybe his sisters sons . and he is called a name like Tuskingo ,Tuchihingo( sp????????? Tuskihigo so it says in that document When talking to RED KING it means “hair lip” it might even be translated as “going snake..” I’m not positive of that , I thought that name meant “horse..” (well Someones name someplace in the family means ‘horse..” or horse thief ) and so you can see with the communication there in those documents with RED king. That the man named Hair lip is very respected with the Chickasaw as representative/ ambassador like of that family group . and IF he is really ‘ going snake’ or son of going snake he is also very respected in the Creeks and maybe Choctaw too under that name. which also points to there being family connections in those places maybe.
so some good questions is like is RED King really maybe Pumpkin Boy ? then Shoeboots sister is Pumpkin boys wife and he is king of creeks and or Chickasaw who later became part of the Creeks. SO when Pumpkin boy dies he very wealthy and they have a daughter . so …..see we can trace these things in circles forever and spellings and translations of words and forcing of things political in boxes that may or may not ever be admitted.. and that can drive you insane….. just a lot of stuff has been forgot and Don’t stuff get forgot on purpose usually? so can anyone really put it back right now or even close ? probably not so much.
no I am am really a lousy reseacher. because I see things that maybe aint there and sometimes can or can’t prove ๐ either way I can get in big trouble ;P
Thanks, Good hunting… Bob
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36268cherosage;36896 wrote: Thanks, Good hunting… Bob
well Bob I can’t really prove Tuskingo is also the name Tuskiehigo sp?
I can’t prove Red king is Pumpkin boy. but in that document where there is one man Red King will not talk about , that someone who is not mentioned who is the elephant in the room of that conversation I recall.. you see . Muskogee will not talk about the dead, so you have to talk around the dead.. . so the one not talked about is also a possible relation or maybe Pumpkin boy or even maybe Canoe. .. ( guess I can’t claim that blood legally ๐ because i’m talking about the dead )
I can prove Shoeboots and his family use the name Tuskingo at least with the Creeks.
I can prove his dad dies when living with the Creeks and you can find this name “Tuskingo “in the Clarinda story even.
I can prove Shoeboots sister is wife of Pumpkin Boy a Chief of the Creeks. and that they have a daughter and that Pumpkin Boys estate is given to Shoeboot’s sister and her daughter.
I can prove Shoeboots has a relative that has a hair lip and we got pictures of him now. . and that for ages I looked for someone in his family who has a hair lip. I really for years thought it was Shoeboots or Dragging canoe..like I said I was just a little kid when great grandma told me these things. SO maybe it is Young Canoe or even another brother of his that I have forgotten the names of . Someone who is almost the same age as Shoeboots. and it this “hair lip” issue right there is why Shoeboots had cherokee women problems. it Seems Cherokee woman didn’t like imperfection ( that they knew about ) or relationships with relations of the imperfect either and grandma told me this caused huge problems for probably most cherokee men. and so Shoeboots wanted to remain cherokee by law and the cherokee men wanted him there to lead them and protect them . but the woman wouldn’t marry him. so culturally they had his fanny over a barrel. and this is why two of his wives were captured woman and one was a slave.. he had no other choices if he wanted to remain with the “cherokee” or not with a cherokee woman more imperfect than his relation was . ๐
I can prove that there is a Indian in the Chickasaw who is named Hair Lip with a Tusk???ingo like name . and Since Dragging Canoe has no Clan in the cherokee , He was not from Ollie Nionee he was not paint clan , and he was not cherokee by law, he is known as Chickamauga for a reason . I think his direct male line did have a clan with in the Muskogee tribes who were more patriarchal in their clans I think! I think he was accepted with them all .. Canoe is remembered as Cherokee only by oral history and somewhat culturally and by association, but was not one legally until those laws were changed and maybe at sometime some of his family was accepted or not in the cherokee , I doubt many were in the cherokee in OK . I don’t have a clue where they ended up. but I suspect a lot ended up in the Creeks or in NC .
so that is what i can and can’t prove.. so far.
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36270You have a lot of good info. Dragging Canoe was a famous Cherokee among the Chickamauga river Cherokees. He passed away just prior to the mass exidus west. Bowles was elected as the leader when they got over here. Many went south into AR, many came west on into MO, and some went north along the Iowa area. Remember that there were no actual states or such named territory, just NDN territory. Bowles went on south, the rest who stayed aroud the now OK AR MO corner area were the Old Settlers now known as the Ketoowahs. We are the other Fed. Rec. Cherokee Tribe with the OCN and the Easterns. In our area among the Cherokees many of our families have multiple blood lines among the Ketoowahs and the OCN along with the Shawnees, Delawares, Osages and Creeks. Not to mention any other Tribe in the area.
Dragging Canoe, if I’m not mistaken was from the Blue Clan. My Grandma Woolery was a Putney with Wilson and Bryant relations. Grandma was Blue Clan. My Grandpa Woolery is related to Red Bird Smith and the Byrds, Starrs, Howards, Murrells, Whites, Shirleys and many more. Our blood line is very mixed Tribally. My Mom is from the Selby, Hale, Herring, Hamilton and Parrishes among others. She is the direct line from Robert Shaw Hamilton of Red River Co, TX from Hamilton Station in TN. My Mom is of the Chikasaw, Citizen Band Potawatomy, Cherokee and maybe Choctaw, Osage etc…. Well, I’m rambling now. Hope you find your family.. Bob
November 1, 2011 at 8:38 pm #36271HI Cherosage
Well I am pretty sure that Dragging canoe had no clan. It is history things and I sure get stuff messed up some times .. but stuff gets forgot , and not just me , so who knows.. but I remember what I was told pretty clear.
Could his wife had been Blue clan? and so she was cherokee I believe so had to have some clan . at least one of his wives was one.
We can all choose to disagree on if Dragging Canoe had a clan. I am pretty sure I remember what I was told and maybe no one else was told some of that stuff.. but had a big oh discussion with great grandma about what a “real” cherokee /and what a “real ” native american was and wasn’t .
Maybe we should just leave it with some stuff is forgot . maybe on purpose .
especially stuff that is hard for kids to understand…:P
mostly because parents don’t want to explain it.. ;P
and mostly great grandmas sure didn’t like it :O
but I was nagging until she told me anyway ! rotf
I think real history is rough on talkers and the listeners.. or if it is all smooshy it probably isn’t real history.
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