December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #11906
There are two different types of the commercial tests. (That I know of, could be more.) One tracks your male or female ancestor — but can only trace the mother or your mother’s mother’s mother’s… you get the idea, all the way back. Or father’s father’s etc. While interesting, not that useful if you don’t happen to have the person you want on that direct female-only or male-only line. Or don’t have access to a relative who does. (This wouldn’t work in my family’s case.) The other is supposed to give you percentages of various ethnicities. They seem to have come up with 6. Don’t understand how this one works. From what I can figure it seems to be based on more questionable assumptions. But it’s the only one we could use, and I’d wondered how good it was for tracking native-american ancestry. Does it for instance, trace some gene that only appears in native-americans, or something? Or does it match your gene pattern to those of other people they already have in the system?
Oops, gotta go.December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #11909
Hana, your post was fine, if I sounded upset — I wasn’t. You can’t see “body language” in an email. 🙂 In fact I haven’t seen that website yet — no time at present.
Here are my responses to you questions
1. Blackfoot vs Blackfeet — easy to answer. I don’t know. 🙂
2. Blackfoot-Cherokee — My opinion based on my research is that i.] mixed blood Christian Indians from the East Coast migrated with the first White Settlers west of the Appalachians. The first generation fought against the Cherokee and Shawnee and basically took those lands from them. ii.] Some of their children later married into Cherokee families, that also migrated north from their homes in SE Tn and adjacent states. This is my “guess” and probably can’t be proven and it is just one idea of many that might have some validity. I might be wrong.
3. Physical attributes — some say they are importand and others that they are irrelivant. I don’t know. To be Indian, I’d think Brown skin and eyes, and black hair are most common. Beyond that I don’t know . . . 🙂
4. DNA — I heard there were 2 tests, one for the male side and one for the female. But if your ancestor who you think was Indian was your father’s mother — and he is passed on, you’ll never find it unless you test his DNA somehow, because one tests the male descended from a male descended from a male (etc) while the other works for the female descended from a female descended from a female (etc). Female test was through mitochondrial DNA nad male was Y chromosone test, I believe. There is a website somewhere that discusses this. I think there are four genetic markers for American Indians showing perhaps four migrations. I need to look this up before spouting anything else off . . .December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #11917
Well, I found nothing upsetting or wrong with your info. or your intent. This has been a very good piece, indeed. I never imagined there would be things like flat feet (all the women in my moms side as well as all of her daughters and Kerry, have not only flat feet, but bunnions the size of NEW YORK CITY!:D ) And teeth! Bill, I had no clue! This is so fascinating! I find nothing offensive with any ancestoral blood no matter who it came from, even if they were green skinned. Blood is blood, we all have it and there is both good and bad in every single person through all walks of life. We live and learn and hopefully find ways to help one another along the way.
I hope I find that there is Blackfoot/Cherokee. Because we were always Blackfoot, according to my mom. Written lineage has shown me there is also Cherokee in me. So some how some where along the way, I got both. I think finding the Blackfoot link is going to be harder for me than I thought. My sister found the Cherokee and I’m just verifying that. All my life I’ve been Blackfoot, even if somehow mom got it wrong. That’s just the way it is. AND I LOVE YOU GUYS! Lynella.:DDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #11918
Tom, Techteach, Vance, Hana, EVERYONE,
Christmas is coming, where do I send the cards? If ya’ don’t want to post your address, e-mail it to me at email@example.com
And if ya’ don’t want me to send ya’ a card, that’s o.k too, atleast ya’ know I thought and think about you all!:DDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12665
I have read everyone’s comments, and have come to the conclusion that Europeans are still using menthods of divide and conquer via DNA, racial re-assignment and methods of psychological insecurity. Don’t be fooled.
If the one drop factor applies to being Black, then the one drop factor should work if your Red!
JulieDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12678
Bless you! You’re right. Love & Light and Darn Good Seeing Ya’! 🙂 Lynella.December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12683
Thanks for your opinion. It reflects the way that most people feel on this board I believe. Because of my great-grandparents shunning that part of my mother’s family, I am only now meeting (at least online) cousins who are related as closely to me as the cousins on my German father’s side that I used to celebrate Christmas with. My great grandparents would not associate with my great grandfather’s family, so I never met the people in my family who knew their native traditions and continued to celebrate them. My great grandmother would not even sit in the same room with my gggrandmother. I feel as if they stole part of my heritage. So do other descendents. My ggggrandmother now has a new headstone proclaiming her as Blackfoot, replacing the one that simply read “Mother,” placed there by a cousin who felt her story needed telling also.
TechteachDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12689
It’s too bad that society influences our self-worth and shapes us into everything other than what we are supose to be.
For Example: My birth certifiacate has me listed as Negro, yet I have a federally issued ID card.
Talk about psycholgical warfare!
JulieDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12694
Originally posted by Linda
…..I found it interesting, since I have met so MANY Indian people here in the upper south who resemble my dad’s side of the family (Meditteranean). One of those two told me they tested a group of Mohawks that came up positive for Zena. ….
I find this very interesting as well. My father-in-law is Italian. My mother-in-law is Irish. Both are first generation in the US, so no chance of mixing up the genes over here.
My husband has shovel teeth and the bump on the back of the head thing (anatolian bump?)
Many people think my husband is either Mexican or Asian.
Could be something about that Italian side of the family……..supposed to come from the Italian Alps area.December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12705
Julie, I agree, the labeling is a crucial part of manipulation of groups against each other and the continuation of class warfare. I believe that discrimination in this country IS about race, it IS about gender, it IS about sexual orientation and it’s ALL about class. The labels some of us get stuck with are tools that are used to keep us in the lower classes.
It’s one of the ways those with power keep people fighting with each other over the scraps in life, while others walk away with the bounty. (or, if you’re less paranoid than I am, it’s how we all lose out by fighting over the scraps)
If they can stick a label on you (and especially if they can get you to accept it), then they can find a way to make that label a bad thing. Whether it’s religion, color, gender, heritage or sexual orientation, they can then find some group somewhere that wants to hate you for it, even to the point of denying you your rights. As long as we’re all fighting over who sleeps with who and what color the babies might be, we all lose.December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12707
Originally posted by Hana
A bit of interesting historical musing and material, mostly in Melungeons and Mestis, but briefly mentions Saponi, Lumbee, and others we’ve been looking at. http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish/melungeons.html
OK, I’ve been reading this article, and I got to this part:
The Melungeons usually have been peaceful, and while they are prone to shooting towards flatlanders snooping in the hills (suspected of being revenuers), these expert hunters who live on rabbits and squirrels rarely actually hit the person. They never served in the military (Jean Bible notes about 40 Melungeons served in the Union army in the Civil War, but out of a group of several thousand even then, that is very few) until the First World War, when they were finally allowed to serve in white units (only after presenting the army with affidavits from the county clerks in their home counties saying they were not considered black). In the Second World War, they learned to drive jeeps in the army, and when they returned to the hills, they could then deliver their moonshine to the towns and eliminate the white middlemen. This is their main danger to outsiders, since they frequently will be found driving the mountain roads of northeast Tennessee and southwest Virginia at night at high speeds with their lights out.
….and I guess I hafta laugh, because…..this sounds a whole lot like a LOT of my relatives from Kentucky and so far, I haven’t found one reference to Melungeons among them. We might be Melungeon, we might not, but there certainly was enough moonshining, fast driving and rabbit & squirrel eating to fit the bill. Isn’t this true of a lot of Appalachian folks??December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12717
Not only are we talking race, but the ever expanding market culture. The expansion of (white) corporate power is driven by this pervasive commercialization and commodification for two basic reasons, First, market activities of bying and selling, advertising and promoting weaken nonmarket activities of caring, sharing, nuturing and connecting. Second, private aims trump public asperations. As Native Americans, this system of egocentric thinking is not comprehensible and therefor, has retarded our potential for growth in the 21st century.
JulieDecember 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12735
Julie, I like the way you think, very interesting concepts!
Clinton’s former adviser Robert Reich said in an interview a while back that we have a responsibility to save capitalism from itself. I’m not real sure what that means, but I do think we’ve “run amuck”. When the insurance companies determine our health care instead of our doctor, something is seriously wrong.
I read an article back before all this news about Vioxx and Celebrex, that said you should never take a prescription drug that has been on the market less than five years because it’s still considered to be in a “testing phase” to see if there are bad reactions. Well gee thanks for making us all guinea pigs!! I guess we can see how well that works out now that there are serious health risks with some of this stuff. I’m also what’s called a DES Daughter, which is another profit driven mess created by the pharmaceutical companies.
We hear a lot about how workers have to make sacrifices because it’s good for the economy. Jobs are being exported to other countries, pensions are drying up, retiree benefits are under tremendous attack, Social Security and Medicare will not be there when I retire…..(wonder where all our money went??)
Lately, when I’m listening to the news I substitute the phrase “the corporations” every time I hear “the economy”.
It’s very enlightening…..December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12736
Yes, I fit the bill, squirell eating and all!:)
I like the way you both think. Though at this time of evening my brain starts running out of words to express myself. Julie, I love your gift for conversation it is absolutely a winning quality!:) And I think you’re beautiful too! It must be nice!;)
Julie at your words I started getting all rialled up inside again! My cantankerous side really wants to stand up and fight!
Ah, but I must controll myself or I’ll be getting me into trouble! Red Hawk had the same effect on me last summer! Everytime he spoke his mind, I was ready to jump in there and pick a fight!
Bless you both, and thank you for your keen insight. Love & Light, Always, Lynella.December 1, 2004 at 9:01 pm #12757
Just do what every good Indian woman would do… kick some butt, and then go waeve a basket!
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