Senecas of the Sandusky

Searching for Saponitown Forums Share History Research Senecas of the Sandusky

This topic contains 96 replies, has 24,942 voices, and was last updated by  techteach 15 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 97 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1085

    techteach
    Moderator

    I found an interesting web site that describes the Senecas of the Sandusky. We have discussed them here before, but I thought I would give folks this URL. Check this : http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Seneca/SenChapIII.htm and this : http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Seneca/SenChapII.htm

    Very intriguing for me. I have Van Meters marrying into the family and buried near my Blackfoot ancestor. Does this mean something? Maybe, maybe not. There were Van Meters in Licking County, OH with the PA/WVA bunch and near the Greens when then were in WVA.

    Techteach

    #10574

    vance hawkins
    Participant

    Those are great links. Thanks for suplying them. I saw the Knicely surname one ex-poster used to mention a lot. Also saw McNutt, and some McNutts married into my family. My great great grandparents raised an orphan boy Thomas McNutt in Arkansas. It talks aboout Logan, and many other interesting topics. It said Shawnee Chief Blackhoof was called Blackfoot. Many little things.

    again thanks. 🙂

    vance

    #10577

    Tom
    Participant

    Hey VAnce tha’s very interesting about this Chief Blackhoof, aka Blackfoot, he showed up in Tn in white Co. I believe on Calf killer creek a Shawnee but like many Shawnee hung around with Cherokee Folks, my family was there when this Chief was , rather interesting , but is there some connection ? we may never know!

    #10589

    vance hawkins
    Participant

    Really? That’s interesting, we too “might have” ties to White County (not proven yet tho). What years are you talking about?

    vance

    #10590

    techteach
    Moderator

    Blackfoot was the Shawnee chief at the time of Tecumseh. He sided with the whites and tried to remain peaceful. In consideration, he was given land near Wapakoneta, Ohio where he died at age 90-something. He was the head Shawnee chief.

    One of my cousins who writes and speaks on hidden native ancestry believes that our family is Shawnee. To her, my Blackfoot ancestor (this ancestor is not hers but moves to Iowa to live with mutual ancestors) only proves her theory further. She insists that Shawnees who followed Black Hoot, aka Blackfoot, called themselves Blackfoot. Three cousins who met one another online as we looked at genealogy all say that our family tradition is Blackfoot Cherokee. She just explains the Cherokee tradition as claiming Cherokee to claim a tribe generally considered to be “tame Indians.”

    Vance, do you know the location of the Cherokee reservation in Oklahoma? One family member went from Iowa to Kingfish, OK and is buried there? Any ideas why it might have been Kingfish, assuming that they were native, that is, do you know if there is a specific tribe found there? And, assuming that they were native can be safely assumed – one of these online cousin’s line continued to marry native and move west. She is a member of the Colville tribe.

    Techteach

    #10622

    Tom
    Participant

    Hey Vance well my folks were in White county during the very early 1820’s to 1840’s, I may have seen Hawkins there on a partial 1820 census record , there are many names on that census that are NC Cash’s Collins Lowery’s etc.

    tech, I really like your post, I wondered what Blackhoof aka Blackfoot had to do with the Cherokee’s but your cousins theory is a little off though atleast for my family, no offense though.

    Vance did you see the post’s that Bill did, where there were Hawkins moving around with the Hardins ? Carey’s, Collins and Gibson’s in my line!?

    #10627

    techteach
    Moderator

    Tom:

    No offense taken. I think this cousin is off too, although I am willing to concede that they were probably a mixed bunch. However, I think it is to simplistic to shake off the Cherokee tradition when three of the descendents of Sinkey/Ralston and Huston brothers and sisters, who did not know one another (and still do not know one another face to face), have the same story. However, this cousin has a tradition in her family that one of her ancestors married Tecumseh’s niece (not my direct line), so best to say they were mixed tribes or simply Eastern Woodland.

    Techteach

    PS: Sorry about the typo on Black Hoof. Did not mean to call him Black Hoot.

    #10629

    vance hawkins
    Participant

    Tom, I am missing a lot of posts, as I am working pretty much 6 days a week, and just read a little now and then, so I missed that post. I’ll try and find it. Thanks,

    vance

    #11007

    Bess
    Participant

    Cindy

    The Van meter line that migrated to Fairfield and Licking counties Ohio, formerly resided in the area of what became Berkeley Co WVA. Before that they were from the Hudson River valley and upstate New York The Van Meters (VanMetres) were an old established Indian trading family. In the early 1700s they congregated along a broad strip of land at the junction of Opeccum River and the Patomic. Here they “took up” thousands of acres of land” (stole from the aboriginal population). As with the other Indian traders, they adopted the barbaric, inhuman system of chattel slavery, and plunder the labor of the Africans, and likely, Native Americans as well. Moreover, the Vanmeters seized lands in the vicinity of Martinsburg and Shepardstownn. The Old Warriors Path, which went from New York through Pennsylvania to the Carolinas, passed over their land. Thus, this family had contact with most tribes of the Southeast. This family intermarried with the, Hites, Swearingans and Shepard and Demoss. They had economic ties with other well-known Indian traders of the neighborhood including the Pearis and Hite families. Given their location they assuredly had contact with the Greens and the Ulms who also were of the area. The latter families don’t appear to have been involved in chattel slavery. Here are a few passages that give background on the Van Meters:

    1. ”In 1725, a group of Deleware warriors accompanied by John Van Meter, a white settler, crossed through Hardy County on their way to attack the Catawba Indians. Unfortunately for the Deleware, their war party was discovered by a group of Catawba warriors who ambushed them in what is now Pendleton County. John Van Meter escaped, and returned to his home in New York where he recanted his adventures in the wilds of western Virginia to his son, Isaac Van Meter.

    In 1736, Isaac Van Meter decided to follow his father’s path and traveled to near present-day Moorefield. He made a “Tomahawk Claim” on the land (he staked his claim to the land by using a tomahawk to mark slashes on trees outlining the claimed territory). He then returned to his home (now in New Jersey) After doing this, Van Meter left Virginia and returned to his home in New Jersey. Later, he returned to Virginia to find James Coburn settled on the land he had previously claimed for himself. Coburn was a member of a group of families which had settled in the Hampshire County vicinity around 1735. The dispute over the land was settled peacefully as Van Meter paid Coburn for the land, and in 1744, Van Meter relocated his family from New Jersey to a new homestead south of the “Trough” in Hardy County, Virginia.

    Also, around the time of Isaac Van Meter’s settlement in Hardy County, the colony of Virginia purchased the land encompassing Hardy, Grant, Pendleton, and Mineral Counties as well as some additional western land for 100 pounds from the Iroquois Confederacy. This purchase paved the way for further white settlement in the region. In its early days, Hardy County, like most counties located in the back-country, became home to many settlers of Scotch Irish, German, and Dutch decent.” http://www.segenealogy.com/westvirginia/wv_county/hdy.htm

    2. Accounts differ, but tradition has it that the first white person to see the South Branch Valley of the Potomac was John Van Metre, a New York fur trader. Van Metre and a Delaware war party were supposed to have made a trip into the valley around 1725. The Delaware’s wished to penetrate into the Catawba country further south. Unfortunately, for their plans, the Catawba met and defeated the Delaware’s near Franklin in Pendleton County and the Delaware’s were forced to retreat back up the road that followed the South Branch Valley, he must have taken time to appreciate the possibilities the valley offered. He is supposed to have told his two sons, Isaac and John, that “the lands immediately above the Trough were the finest body of land he had ever discovered in all his travels.”

    In 1730 the Virginia Council confirmed a land grant of 40,000 acres. Part of this land, 20,000 acres, went to the elder John Van Metre and was an area bounded by the Shenandoah on the east, the Opequon on the west, the Potomac on the north, and extended as far south as the southern branch of the Opequon. John Van Metre, the son, immediately settled on his land and Van Metre’s have been in the Shenandoah Valley ever since. Isaac, the other brother, traveled into the South Branch Valley to blaze the extent of his claim for an equal 20,000 acres. In 1736, he marked his claim and went back to New Jersey to arrange to move to South Branch.

    Arrangements must have been cumbersome because it was not until 1740 that Isaac again ventured down into the South Branch Valley. When he got to his claim, he found that a man named Coburn had settled there and made improvements. Improvements were usually defined as fences, barns, cabins, clearing of land and the planting of crops, a not inconsequential effort for that period. It is commendable that Isaac Van Meter bought out Coburn, evidently paying him for this tremendous work he had done. Finally, in 1744, Isaac Van Meter’s pack train and wagons lumbered down from New Jersey with his family and he built a fort nearby for protection. http://www.vanmetre.com/National%20Historic/fort_pleasant.htm

    3. The Van meters of Fairfield and Licking counties were direct descendants of the Berkeley group and they intermarried with the Demoss line and moved to West. Check this site out, search for Demoss: http://downloads.members.tripod.com/Dr.G/vanmeter.htm

    Earlier Cindy cited a The “John Van meter” who was living among the Senecas of Sandusky (then resident of Seneca county Ohio). This captive John Vanmeter was a direct descendant of the Van meters of Berkeley county. The Greens of Licking County possibly had connections with young John Vanmeter, indirectly, through the Beaver family. The Beavers, a “German” family set down in Eden Twp, Seneca county as early as 1823, when the Vanmeter Mohawk reservation of Eden twp was still occupied by Native Americans. The Beaver family lived within 2 miles of the Vanmeter reserve. George Greens descendants of Licking County were in direct contact with the Beaver family of both Seneca and Licking County during the early pioneer days. Intimate contact between the Greens and the Beaver families is evidenced by the following

    marriage mentioned in the biography of Corwin C. Green, publidshed in Hill’s, History of Licking county:

    “Corwin C Green farmer and stock dealer of Johnstown was born June 18, 1841, in Monroe township,.. He is the only son of Rezin and Parmeli Green and the grandson of (George–ed) and Diadema Green, who was the third family who settled in Monroe Township. He married Ann M Beaver September 27, 1866. She was born September 11, 1847 in… SENECA County.” (N.N. Hill 1798 History of Licking county its Past and Present, AA Graham & Co. Pub. Newark, Ohio (1881): 679)

    More on the Beaver family will be found at the Genforum message board site for Beaver and searching for “Seneca”.

    Cindy, you should also look into the county records of Seneca County for the Greens, Beavers, and Vanmeters

    Bess.

    #11008

    techteach
    Moderator

    Wow, Bess, thanks. I own “The Green Tree” but I my husband cleaned and I am not sure where he put it. I had missed the name Beaver in there, although I remember Diadema. There is a picture of her in the book. She was supposed to have been “the first white child born” but at least one native American has asked what tribe she belonged to. She was a Willison, one of the group of Willisons who came west with the Greens.

    I knew that the Van Meters were from near there in Berkeley County. In fact, I had seen part of the passage you found. I did not know, however, that Van Meters appear to have owned the land that the Greens lived on. Your placement is exactly where they lived in Berkeley County. The information I read led me to think they were one of the families that Lord Fairfield found for his land claim. However, the Van Meter name is on many of their legal documents.

    Interestingly, we do not know the reason why the Sinkey (and likely Huston) bunch came from near Huntington and ended up where the Greens were, in Licking County. However, there is a George Green who lives with Richard Sinkey in Bedford County, PA in 1779 (http://www.pa-roots.com/~bedford/history/huntingdonco.html) in Oneida Township and Deb, another Sinkey descendent, has shown me a will in which a Sinkey widow, Richard’s, I believe, turns his childrin over to a Green. In The Green Tree, Robert Green mentions that the Greens might originally have been from PA.

    Anyway, all these names end up in Iowa. They are all in my Green genealogy and all (except maybe not Beaver – I don’t remember it) buried in Hickory Grove. A DeMoss married the brother of my gggrandmother, Mary Lovina Potter, who looked native and never cut her hair.

    I found a passage where the Van Meter reservation was near Tiffin, Ohio until it was sold and John Van Meter, a son of Isaac who was captured as a boy and grew up with natives and married to a Seneca woman, took his tribe across the Mississippi. I have been looking for where they went.

    Bess, you might be interested to know that my uncle believes that we descend from the Swearingens on my grandfather’s side. The name was Carpenter and documents indirectly link my ancestors to the Swearingens. A sister of the one who marries Samuel Brady marries a Tomlinson who surveys land for George Washington and goes on to murder Chief Logan’s family. Bill also found a family connection of the Tomlinson’s with my Hustons.

    Thanks for the info. I will have to do some further digging now. The Greens did not leave that land in Berkeley County until the late 1700s and early 1800’s. If they were native as some family members believe and Diadema’s picture might indicate, why would they have stayed so long?

    Cindy

    #11017

    techteach
    Moderator

    Bess,

    Your message sent me to the web site of the history of Seneca County, http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Seneca/SenChapII.htm. There, I found the information on John VanMeter’s reservation. Furthermore, it mentions a reservation set up for McCullochs. This name, in addition to VanMeter, is in my ggggrandmother’s cemetery, the ggggrandmother with the Blackfoot headstone. However, also, in reading the information, it mentions that the Wyandot reservation was emptied in 1842. In my Green genealogy, compiled by a distant cousin, it mentions the date of the earliest arrival in Iowa being 1842. The name of that family was Edwards, the name of the Moravian with Heckweleder (Do I have the name right? I know it is misspelled, but I get the names of Zeisburger and Heckwelader mixed up.) I do know that after Gnaddenhutten, the remaining Moravians were sent to somewhere near this Seneca county area location, if I recall correctly. Needless to say, I am a bit intrigued, shall we say? I do believe I will email Deb. She has been a bit under the weather, so she has not been active. She will be very interested. Her family’s story is also Blackfoot Cherokee. Both of us had Ralston relatives, brothers, who married Indian women, mine being the ggggrandmother who called herself Blackfoot (and I think that it is the same for Deb), and followed the rest of the group to Iowa in 1852 from near Pittsburgh. My family says the Sinkeys of Huntington, PA brought in the Indian blood while her family says the Ralstons brought in the Indian blood. Both families had pipe-smoking ancestors and descendents who hid the traditions. Both of us also had ancestors who were sons of these two native American wives who were known as “The Fox.”

    Cindy

    #11022

    techteach
    Moderator

    Oops, Van Meters were not in the same cemetery as my gggrandmother but still in the area, Jones and Johnson counties in Iowa, married to folks with ties to Licking County, OH and my family. The DeMoss’ are certainly in the same cemetery.

    Cindy

    #11032

    Bess
    Participant

    Cindy,

    The BEAVER surname is an anglicized version of the German, BEIBER or BIEBER. It appears also as BEVER, so check all four in your research.

    I saw an index to the “The Green Tree” book and the BEAVER family is mentioned. See: http://lcgs.npls.org/greenidx.htm

    I found some new info on the Beaver, Vanmeter, and Mohawk ties. According to Joseph Beaver, an ancestor of Ann Beaver Green, who lived on the border of the Van meter/Mohawk reserve, the relatives of John Van meter frequented the Bever family home for many years. This included, Van meter’s Indian brother in law, Isaac Brandt. This info came up in a secondary source; I am still tracking down the original and will pass it on as soon as I locate it.

    The Beavers were leaders in the German United Brethren Church in pioneer days in Seneca County; this is the same denomination that Benjamin Green adhered to in Licking County. You may want to search these church records for possible Indian ties between these (Beaver/Vanmeter/Green) and other related families.

    Bess

    #11033

    techteach
    Moderator

    Bess,

    I thought of Bieber last night. I had Biebers in my high school who came from near where the Sinkey/Green bunch settled. So I did a search online and found that they were interchangeable. Then I searched the Jackson County, IA cemetery listings and did not find them. However, I did find them in Jones County down where I found the Van Meter marriage. I also found the following obit:

    Joseph French

    Born 1823 John O. French

    Born 1827

    Joseph French, farmer, Sec. 21; P.O. Canton; was born in Greene Co., Penn., in 1823; in 1830, he removed with his parents to Licking Co., Ohio, where he lived until 1846, when he moved to Clay Township, Jones Co., Iowa; in 1849, he went to Noble Co., Ind., and there married his first wife, Miss Catherine Sinkey; in 1852, they removed to where he now resides and remained one year, then moved to Brandon Township, Jackson Co., where his first wife died; there were two children by this marriage – Charlotte (now the wife of Richard Demoss, Jackson Co., Iowa), Angeline (now Mrs. Andrew Gracey of this township); in the latter part of 1854, Mr. French returned to Clay Township, and, in 1856, married his present wife, Gracie C. Beaver; their children are William N. (who married Agnes Orr), Mary J., James M., Sarah J., and Amanda A. Mr. French owns 240 acres of land; his farm is finely improved, and he is one of the well-to-do farmers of Clay Township. In politics, Mr. F. is Democrat.

    This obit gives lots of locations, doesn’t it?

    French is a name that is related to me. I had a classmate whose family went to our church. His mother once told me that we were related. I always thought it was my father’s family because they were German immigrants who ironically settled near my mother’s mixed ancestors. However, since my ggrandparents separated themselves from the Indian ancestors, I did not know of that connection until the last two years.

    Bill said that the PA census taker where my Blackfoot ancestor was located was named French.

    Cindy

    #11059

    Red Hawk
    Participant

    I have been reading with interest the discussions on the various names which were common in SW PA and NW WV, better known as the Monongahela River valley and to the Indians of the area before white interference as the Ohio (Upper Ohio, Ohio is a Wyandot word, while Monongahela is a Shawnee word). To the Indians of the region the rivers Ohio, Allegeny, and the Monongahela were the same (as were the surrounding drainage creeks.) They were all the “Ohio”. To whites this was not the case. Be sure when studying the origin of any person or named family to know if they were using the Indian understanding of locale or the white interpretation.

    The name Green was common in both SW PA and most areas westward including the area of Ashland County Wisconsin as early as 1850. The total population of that area of Wisconsin with the name Green was (by record of census) Indian. In SW PA many Indian families took on the persona of the Moravian Germans who came to “civilise” them. Intermarrying was common with the Indian “becoming a Moravian” in all but DNA. Within a few generations the changeover would be complete. Not all children in these lines would stay Moravian and many went back to their Indian roots. This was one reason for the spread of the names (many with German spellings or German words for the original Indian Idea-Name). The hatred for Indians in SW PA/NW WV was intense, fully genocidal in reality. Hiding their new converts was a true “christian mission” for the early Moravian communities. In their church records they sometimes indicated Indian converts with a small “i” behind their names. By the 1840’s this practise had dissapeared as the need for such recognition had faded through intermarriage and euro cutural christianisation.

    The Chippewa (Ojibwe) and their Ottawa neighbours from the eastern Great Lakes moved west to WI (and near their western most Ojibwe relatives) by the Mid 1800’s taking with them a great many mixed blood former Moravians and refugees from other related tribes. The Stockbridge Delware and Muncys who now live in NE WI are one such group who followed other “friendly Indian nations” into the WI area. On the way they lived in OH and IN and many fought with Tecumseh in The War of 1812. Many of their leaders were outspokenly for peace, but the individual warriors had freedom to act as they saw fit. By the time the Delaware arrived in IN, they were not only tired of the Moravian missionaries but refused to even carry on relations with them when they set up new missions in IN. Many of these same Delaware were responsible for the raids which made the KY frontier so hard for the white settlers. The Chippewa of MI and WI, the Ottawa, Wyandot, Shawnee who had all once had territory on the Upper Ohio (Indian definition) joined in much of the fighting which raged across the old Northwest Territory from 1774-1813.

    My family came from the Monongahela at a small creek called Catts Run which was 86 miles south of Ft’ Pitt. The village was named for my family as Poundstone Bottom and had the distinction of being the youthful home village of Cornstalk (a Shawnee overall Chief mid 1700’s to his death in 1777). The land was registered by my family with many of the family members becoming Moravian converts (like Cornstalks mother, the wife of Paxsinosa, Elizabeth.) In my line John Poundstone refuses the Moravian way and moves west to Indiana territory to join a village of mixed Delaware and Shawnee (likely also Seneca) on a creek they called the Mahoning in what is now Rush County IN. Other family members moved instead through Licking County OH to Wyandot and Hardin Counties of NW OH and then on to the area of the Big Miami reserve in IN. These areas were highly concentrated with Indian mixed bloods or Indian refugees who kept being pushed west ahead of the main body of settlers (or actually joining them) as they moved west. The areas of NW Ohio were the last “treaty lands” of the Shawnee, Wyandot and Ottawa before their removal to MO, KS and OK. Some of my “moravian” family members even end in Shawnee KS and OK. We have extensive details on each generation in our family, but even a few years ago we had no more then the half rememberings of my Great Aunts and the stories told by my Great Grandmother and Grandfather (all full bloods). The message here is keep looking you will find it, but read the available histories of EVERY area where your family has been, every silly little local historian, every famous one too. You will be suprized how many “old tales from the family” start making sense and how many names will show up.

    By the way my Grandmother on my mothers side who was referred to as German Jewish actually appears to be an Indian adoption into a German Jewish family in Ashland WI….neighbours of the Greens…Indian Green families…who made a fuss about her and her “status” causing my German “relatives” to flee to Chicago with their four German children and their one “Indian adopted” daughter…more on this later…road trip needed to solve this one. Best to all…Paselo John

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 97 total)

The forum ‘Share Genealogy Research’ is closed to new topics and replies.