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August 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11065
Howdy John —
I’d like to pick at your brain if you don’t mind. You have brought up a lot of topics of interest. I’ll probably never be able to touch base on all of ’em.
You mentioned lookin’ in the history of the local area for little tidbits — I agree 100 percent! Also the importance of looking in Church records, but for me it is Methodist, Presbytarian and even Moravian some too. Moravians were invited into the Cherokee Nation (Spring Place Mission) in 1801. Names that don’t appear on rolls might appear in Church records. One ancestor helped organize the first Methodist Church in Arkansas, and in Chronicles of Oklahoma it says that church was also the beginnings of Methodism in Indian Territory as the early Methodist ministers rode “circuits” and that circuit also crossed into Indian Territory. This was in 1815 before Indian Territory (Oklahoma today) was even organized. An earlier generation of that ancestor was also in a Melungeon Church in SW Virginia.
1. I was wondering what you think of the Melungeons? One man called them the “friendly Indians” who helped build Fort Blackmore. He said they moved to his area (Hancock County I think, in NE Tn) area between 1795 and 1815. I personally think they were Christianized Indians and other theories are nonsense, but I might be wrong. Were there any removals of Ohio/Penn Indians between those years? After Fallen Timbers there was the Greenville Treaty of 1794 or 5. Did it include removal? I’ve found other tribes moving about those times. Would any of those people (Shawnee, Wyandotte, Delaware, Miama and others) have gone south to Ky or Tn? I don’t think so, but want to verify it.
I think the Tuscarora sold their last lands in NC during those years and were not heard from again until recently when some people claim descendance from them.
2. I have Dickson/Wood/Richey ancestors in Gibson County, Indiana — leaving Virginia for Indiana from sometime between 1797 and 1806. In a neighboring County (Pike County, Indiana) there is a church called “Blackfoot Church” with a legend that it was named for “Blackfoot Indians” who were living in the area. It says the church was started at the end of the 18th century, the same time frame my ancestors appear there. There is a Ritchey buried in that cemetery dating from an early period. What do you know of the term “Blackfoot” relating to “Eastern Blackfoot”? One of my great uncles was named “Swaney” Richey (born 1880s in the Chickasaw Nation of South Central Oklahoma), making me wonder if there might be Shawnee in the family background somewhere. Another great uncle was named “Hoten” Richey and I thought “Hoten” (dad called him Uncle Hoten, pronouncing it HO-d’n) with “O” pronounced as in “host”. I have wondered if it might might be Algonquin. This might just be a wild goose chase, tho, I don’t know.
— mention is made of a Cherokee Chief Takatoka who went to Illinios and I assume neighboring states trying to get the Indian peoples up there to migrate to Arkansas? He died in 1827. My Indiana ancestors (surnamed Richey) are living in 1872 in the same place in Arkansas where Takatoka’s Village was located 45 years earlier. My Richey’s married my Brown’s and lived on the Arkansas River in Indian Territory but still very close to Fort Smith, Arkansas, right on the Ok/Ark border. They moved to the Chickasaw Nation in the 1880s.
4. A lot of peope speak of “Blackfoot-Cherokee” and I think I can show ancestors from both groups. But mine married in Ark/Ok and not in Tn/Ky/WVa as some other people claim with these ancestors. There is no historical documentation for this “Blackfoot-Cherokee lable, is there? Maybe from a Shawnee perspective you might have the missing parts of the puzzle, as researching from the Cherokee side, there were NO Cherokee perminantly in Kentucky, other than raiders trying to keep settlers out — at least during the histopric period. Maybe you know who these Indians in Kentucky might have been that family stories record as “Blackfoot-Cherokee”.
5. You spoke of the “Green” surname”. There are people in Missouri claiming they are descende from a Cherokee chief named “Gardner Greene.” Now most Cherokee say there never was any Chorokee named “Gardner Greene”. Have you ever heard of him? Maybe he was from one of the tribes North of the Ohio.
Well I know that’s a lot . . . God forgive me for lumping that all on you all at once. 🙂
vanceAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11066
If you don’t mind me adding in a couple of things I found, here they are:
I have a book here called “My Family Says This” written by a Green descendent who says that there were Cherokee in Dauphin County, PA. Now I have not been able to verify this in any other source, although I certainly do not claim to have all sources. Thus far, all of my searching has been online, except for a stint to my university library where I found the information that that part of PA was home to many refugee southern tribes but Cherokee was not mentioned. That being said, that is the location of part of my family who supposedly were Cherokee. (I no longer believe this.)
I have however, found a reference to several Cherokee being brought north during the Revolution to fight in PA.
I continue to find Richeys as I search, so if this spelling is part of yours also, they seem to have followed some of the same routes as my folks. Certainly, some of my folks were down in Gibson County, IN also.
I found a web site on early German Brethren church members after Bess mentioned them. This is the web site : http://www.cob-net.org/america.htm Somewhere on that web site is a description of the early roads and routes of the Brethren. Very interesting reading and might provide an explanation of why folks from different areas of PA and WVA end up in the same place in Iowa.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11067
Thanks for the information. I am finding two other sources useful also. The roster for the Revolutionary War that includes my ggggggrandfather, William Sinkey, has most of the names that show up in later places. I keep returning to it. I used the online PA Rev War cards found at http://www.digitalarchives.state.pa.us . Using this, I found several named Sink. I find this name again in northern Ohio. I also found a Thomas Sinkey who has an interesting comment. He was scouting in the Kishcoquilla Valley and asks to be relieved from duty as he “is on the frontier must move family, break up settlement entirely.” Do you have any context to build on this? William also scouted in Kishcoquilla Valley .
I have also been looking at the original document index found at : http://microformguides.gale.com/Data/Index/203000b.htm Now my university library is making the originals available to me if I find something relevant.
Using this source, I found that a note about the Seneca being called Sinneken and Sineker by the Dutch. This is so like Sinkey that I began to suspect that Sinkey might come from this. I found at the Seneca history web site that Sinneken came from the Mohegan term of “people of the standing stone” and was actually Sinika, that the ending was added by the Dutch. Add this to the fact that William’s brother Richard Sinkey lived at Standing Stone (Huntington) and it becomes really interesting.
One other source that I am finding very useful is to follow other family names. For example, Bill found a granddaughter of my Andrew Huston. Her name was Ozwalt – her father was Tobias Ozwalt – a name on William Sinkey’s Rev War roster. If you search the Ozwalt web site, it mentions rumors of Blackfoot Indians, although the author thought it was Western. Also, Cooley is a name that marries into my family and is buried in the same cemetery as my Blackfoot ancestor. If you follow the Cooley genealogy at the Licking county site, you find that the first Cooley in Licking County came from Canandiaga,NY, a Seneca town. (There is a Cooley picture on one of their web sites who is the image of my brother.) That web site also says – and this is for Bess too – that Brother Titus took the Cooley/Sinkey bunch to Iowa in 1843. Now who was Brother Titus? Think I will check my list of people buried with my ancestors.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11068
you said —
I have a book here called “My Family Says This” written by a Green descendent who says that there were Cherokee in Dauphin County, PA.
Is this just a single book? Does it provide a bibliography? Are there any referrences in it? Anything in it that can be verified? That is interesting. I enjoy hearing about little known sources of information.
you said —
Thus far, all of my searching has been online, except for a stint to my university library where I found the information that that part of PA was home to many refugee southern tribes but Cherokee was not mentioned.
When, what time frame, are you talking about? There are records of Cherokee in Ohio between the 1770s and mid 1790s. They were living with the other Ohio tribes on the Scioto River in Ohio. However after the Greenville Treaty they returned to SE Tn nad adjacent states.
you said —
I have however, found a reference to several Cherokee being brought north during the Revolution to fight in PA.
George Washington used 200 Cherokee in the French and Indian War and they were supposed to have gone to somewhere near Pitttsburgh if my memory is correct. It was said that Christopher Gist (a good friend of George Washington and who once is recorded as having saved George Washington’s life, also the grandfather of Sequoyah, was said to have been an advocate of incorporating Indians into the troups and commands against the French first and 20 someodd years later in the revolutionary War against the Brittish. I haven’t found where that was put into practice though.
I’d love to know the source of the material where these Cherokee were brought north, as I am doing research trying to find referrences of Cherokee that left the Cherokee Nation. Do oyu knnow if they returned south after the war?
Those 200 who went North in the French and Indian War did go back South and the government treated them very badly, occasionally fighting against them, stealing their horses, et cetera.
You also mention the German Brethren. Were these the Moravians? There was a second gorup called “German Brethren” or a similar such name, and this second group later merged into the what is now the United Methodist Church. They both seem to have gone by the same name, but the Moravians say this group that merged with Methodism were not the Moravians, althoI have yet to find out which gourp was which, exactly.
I have seen 2 early day groups of “Richey’s” — one in SC anbd the other in Pa, and then there are a very few in Va, but they appear in Va a little later than in Pa or SC it seems. It is possible my ancestor was born in Va in 1797 but his parents might have been born in Pa. Maybe Va was just a short stop over . . . I don’t know how to verify it or not since census records say my g-g-g-grandpa was born in Va in 1797 and I don’t know who his parents were, and have seen no Va census of 1800 with a Richey boy under 5 years old . . . I never have seen the 1800 Virginia census in fact. :).
You said your ancestors were in Gibson County, and they came there from Pennsylvaina? What were their surnames? When did they arrive in Gibson County? Were there Richeys in the same county in Pa?
You mentioned family stories of Cherokee. Thre are many groups that tried tom call themselves Cherokee of some place or anopther that later was shown to be false — Buffalo Ridge Va (I believe they are Monacan), the Lumbee were once called Cherokee as were other groups. For some reason people thought of Cherokee . . . 🙂 It is possible that since their own gourp was declared extinct they chose the name of a tribe still existing. Or possibly they were Christian and their Christian teachers told them to forget their “heathen” past — language and culture . . . I really don’t have an answer for this. Perhaps the truth is a black mark on American history.
VanceAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11069
I will see if I can address some of this. Unfortunately, I cannot give the location of some of the things, as I didn’t mark all of them.
The book is called “My Family Tells This Story” by Snow Flower. In this book, she offers her families hidden native American story. Part of her story is also my story, as the author is also a descendent of Regnald Green, of the Green family who moved from Shepherdstown, WVA to Licking County as I am. However, I do not necessarily agree with some of her methods and information. At the same time, she has some information on how to identify a few things such as physical characteristics. She includes a section on native American names and the locations where they were which interestingly does not include the Greens of Licking County (I have a picture of one of the Greens who came on to Iowa. There is definitely some native American there.). I do not see a Richey or Ritchey but I do see Hawkins. She also has a section of locations of different tribes. She places mixed tribes in Dauphin County, including Cherokee. And yes, there is a bibliography.
I can’t tell you where I saw the newspaper part. I just found it one day, probably looking for verification of Cherokee locations. It was a newspaper article transposed online and spoke of Cherokee being brought north.
And the German Brethren – I am trying to figure this out myself. I can’t get a handle on the early church organizations at this point, but until Bess posted, I wasn’t looking for German Brethren. I had begun to suspect Moravian involvement because my Rhodes seemed to follow the same path, there were missions at locations of the various groups to came to Iowa, and in part, because Joseph Rhodes granddaughter marries a Czechoslovakian immigrant in Ohio. Czechoslovakia is where the Moravian Church got started I think.
What I am finding is that there were several denominations that called themselves Brethren, one of which included the Moravians. I did find their web site interesting. It outlines the early trails of the missionaries and helps explain why the different locations could come together in the same place. Thought I would tell you that one of the early Moravians was named Hutton. Kind of like Hoten, isn’t it?
After Bess sent me looking in northern Ohio, I read an early history that was interesting. The writer was clearly sympathetic towards the native Americans. He circled around the fact that the Iroquois there spoke a language like the Cherokee and ended up making it sound as if the natives there were Cherokee. Many of those names were also my names.
My timeline goes from late 1700s to around 1860, as my folks moved from PA and WVA, to Licking County, OH and then to Iowa. It was only recently that I was directed to the various Indiana locations. Names that I look at include among others : Sinkey, Green, Potter, Huston, Rhoads, Cooley, Streets, Edwards, Metcalf, Butt, Blamer, Ralston, McClellend, McLane, Mccallum and others who intermarry, including Payne, Beaver and others that I cannot recall off the top of my head.
Hope this addresses your questions.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11070
Cherokee and Tuscaroran are both southern Iriquoian languages. Tuscarora did go up North. I once knew a Tuscarora/Cherokee mixed person who gave me the impression some Cherokee might have gone north to the Six Nations — he lived in the Six Nations in Canada, but I haven’t heard from him in a couple of years and no longer have his e-mail address, and I have forgotten the datails. I’d like to be able to document it, tho, but I can’t.
About Hawkins, my earliest Hawkins I can document is Joshua Hawkins, b @1837, Alabama according to census records when he lived in Texas. Never have found his parents. He had a son named William Benjamin Hawkins, but we can not trace our family to “THE” Benjamin Hawkins, of the Creek agency. Grand pa and great grandpa both had the middle name of “Allen” making me think it might be a maiden surname of an ancestor. Allen is a very common Chickasaw and Creek surname, also Alabama-Coushatta and they went to Texas near the Alabama Coushatta (all these are Muscogean peoples).
Ther reason I put the spelling and pronounciation was I don’t think Hoten is Hooten or Hutton. Dad called his uncle “HO-d’n (Hoten), with the accent on the first syllable (“ho” pronounced as “ho” in host) and the second syllable barely audibly pronounced at all, almost like HO–‘n. But you might be right, I might be making too much out of it. I just never knew anyone else with that name.
I think you are right about the Chech’s (sp?) being Moravians.
Well I just got off work and I’m starvin’. 🙂 — gonna eat then rest a bit. More later.
VanceAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11071TomParticipant
Hello, I have heard of a “Snow Flower”, I once met a woman who had an ancestor that was named thta and this person had found her diary in a museum in Nebraska? , it told of her travels back to the Cherokee nation with a child in the dead of winter from the Dakotas.
Not sure if this is the same person but maybe!August 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11074
I doubt it. I know Snow Flower, at least via email. Her nom de pen is from that of her native American ancestor whose story is in the book.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11075TomParticipant
Yes really Cindy, this lady was the organizer of the Cherokee descendants org. from Wyoming state, she made such a claim and said that she located such a diary, email me if you want her name then you can contact her! sounds like maybe you should really persue this or have the current Snow Flower email me.August 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11076Bill ChildsModerator
“Brother Titus” moved to Iowa in about 1843 ??
Searching the 1850 Iowa census for a person with the first name of “Titus”, yeilds
1850 Jackson Co., Iowa Census:
613, TITUS H. COOLEY, 47, Farmer, $300, NY
……….Nancy, 45, Oh.
……….Charles, 20, Oh.
……….Adamantia, 16, Oh.
……….Melinda, 7, Oh.
=======can’t be a coincidence===========
602, George Green, 66, Farmer, Va.
615, George Potter, 35, Farmer, $300, Oh.
619, Andrew Huston, 28, Farmer, ? , Oh.
621, Elikin Wilson, 53, farmer, ? , NJ.
(the “?” only means I didn’t record the R.E. Value.)
Other surnames living in the immediate area:
BillAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11077
Thank you, that has to be the one. In fact, I find all those names in my Green genealogy, although Morgan and Dutton are first names. But that just means I would find it as a last name if I looked farther out than what I have.
This would infer that they might be members of a German Brethren Church with Brother Titus as a leader just as Bess found, right? The Cooleys came from Canandaiga, NY originally to Licking County in 1807. The Sinkeys followed in 1814. The Greens arrived before, I believe, in the late 1700s.
Thanks, Bill. Now, I will poke in the Morgan and Dutton lines when I have a moment.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11078
Actually, seeing those names, you know you have been at this a while when you see Andrew Huston and know who he was immediately. He would be my gggggrandmother’s brother and the elusive Andrew Huston’s son. He does not stay in Iowa and moves further west. What I know of him is that those hunting for the family that I have been in contact with lose him at that time. Since they can’t find his father either, they assume that he followed Andrew Junior and might be buried wherever he ended up. I am sort of the opinion that Andrew Senior ends up in Hickory Grove with the rest. That cemetery has a lot of space with no markers, especially near the Huston monument.
Have to check the family tree for this George Green.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11085
Bill and others interested:
I googled Titus Cooley and found him in eastern Iowa in 1842, in Cascade, IA which is very near to the whole group of Greens, Sinkeys, Hustons, etc. in Jackson County. This is from the history of Cascade:
“Bucknam laid out town along military road thus accounting for its crooked streets. Alvin Burt, Titus Cooley, the McGintys, Peter Summers, Egbert Macomber, the Powells, C. O. Freeman, Elon Rafferty, Lyman Dillon, the Winchells, the Parrotts, Mahlon Lupton, John Rafferty, W. W. Hamilton, G. G. Banghart (operated large general store), Judge Taylor, Levi A. Styles, Peter Knoop, Joseph Dean, Alonzo Meecham, Nathan W. Dolan, John Gibson, and Asa Leek (big sheep man) were all early settlers. W. W. Hamilton was first lawyer and prominent politically; a member of the state senate during the 5th and 6th sessions and was its presiding officer. ” This came off the Dubuque County rootsweb site. I found another Cooley there too, James, and I will paste he and his wife’s picture here if I can .
Well, it did not work. If interested, they are at : http://www.rootsweb.com/~iadubuqu/platpicts/casc_whitwtr82/jcoohey.JPG Look at James Cooley’s wife. Bill, somewhere on that Dubuque rootsweb site it says that they were also in Indiana. Does a lookup on ancestry.com require the knowledge of where they were in Indiana. If it is easy, can you look them up? The information says that his wife was born in Michigan while he came from Genesse County, NY.
What is kind of interesting is that Cooley appears to be a prominent name in early Iowa history. There was a Dennis Cooley who was so prominent that he came to the attention of President Lincoln. He was appointed as Indian Commissioner in South Carolina by President Lincoln.
TechteachAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11086
Oops, sorry. James Cooley was born in Ohio, not New York.
CindyAugust 13, 2004 at 11:27 pm #11087
Got too excited and got something else wrong too. Dennis Nelson Cooley, of Iowa, was not S.Carolina Indian Commissioner nor appointed as such by President Lincoln. He was appointed as “Commissioner to South Carolina and at the same time acted as special Commissioner to settle titles and the right to possession of the city of Charleston.” President Johnson appointed him as Commissioner of Indian Affairs in July, 1865. He resigned in Sept., 1866.
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