Tutelo / Mandan

This topic contains 8 replies, has 3,067 voices, and was last updated by  Tom 15 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1065

    Tom
    Participant

    Somewhere on this site or another I had read that the Tutelo Biloxi, Ofo and Mandan were originally one group from the Ohio Valley!

    Has anyone else ever seen this sitation?

    All of these languages are now gone except Mandan which may also be on the way out!

    If we can tye into some Mandan info we may find something that we can use here.

    Does anyone know a linguist that can help?

    #10444

    techteach
    Moderator

    Tom:

    I consulted a linguist to look at the bit of song that was posted some time ago called Grandma’s song, in fact, two linguists. Neither could identify it, but one indicated the connection between the three languages. One also said that Lakota is related too, although you would expect that. He said the the tiny bit sounded like something he had heard while studying Lakota. This song came from someone on the forum who had a western PA ancestor who said she was Blackfoot Cherokee.

    Cindy

    #10448

    Tom
    Participant

    Hey Tech thanks for the reply, Iam curious about how Tutelo fits in with the Ofo and Biloxi, and Mandan since Mandan is still a living language, maybe we could get some simularities going, w/ pronounciations etc.

    There is a Souian biblio. on the net with some huge materials on the Tutelo and once citation on the Saponi.

    Also frank Speck made some recordings during the 1930’s that are now on cassette, which may also help!

    Thanks for now.

    #10465

    Linda
    Keymaster

    I believe the closest language to Tutelo is Ofo, which was recorded before the last speakers died out. Another tidbit on the Mandan — there were some wonderful paintings made of the Mandan in the winter by an artist, I can’t think of his name. It’s a very famous series. I saw it on tour in Martinsville, VA last year. The way people were dressed puts me in mind of the recreation of the Saratown woman’s outfit.

    #10474

    Tom
    Participant

    That artist may have been George Catlin, he painted all over this country, both USA abnd Canada , some very beautiful works.

    The last speaker of Ofo was Alice Picote, she used to chop river cane and make baskets with friends of mine, aswell a friend is or has been doing some work on the Ofogoula language.

    Where did you find the reference to this?

    #10478

    todgar
    Participant

    Ahan, witahe!

    Horatio Hale’s book on the Tutelo language includes comparisons with Dakota and Hidatsa.

    #10484

    Linda
    Keymaster

    Keep up the talk Todgar. We all need to be making our attempts.

    Tom, I don’t remember where I read it, or heard it. BTW, there’s a book out I bought, “Last of the Ofo” which was a novel. It was mostly well drawn, but there was a goof up at the end. The last speaker was supposedly at the Pamunkey reservation in about the fifties and saw children at the reservation school being discouraged from speaking their language. The Pamunkey haven’t spoken their language for a very, very long time, likely a good deal more than a century, and were anglicized hundreds of years ago. In the novel, the last speaker was male and he quit halfway through the language preservation attempt by a snotty linguist.

    Nice to know you know people who knew the real lady.

    #10495

    Bill Childs
    Moderator

    From “American Language Reprints, Vol. 23, Tutelo” by Horatio Hale.

    Sources cited: Carter, 1980; Foster, 1996; Goddard, 1996.

    “Classification of the Siouan Languages

    EASTERN SIOUAN

    ……….Catawba

    ……….Woccon

    WESTERN SIOUAN

    ……….Missouri River

    …………………Hidatsa

    …………………Crow

    ……….Mississippi Valley

    …………………Dakotan

    ………………………….Sioux

    ………………………….Assiniboine

    ………………………….Stoney

    …………………Dhegiha

    ………………………….Omaha-Ponca

    ………………………….Osage

    ………………………….Kansa

    ………………………….Quapaw

    …………………Chiwere-Winnebago

    ………………………….Chiwere (Otoe, Missouri, Iowa)

    ………………………….Winnebago

    ……….Southeastern

    …………………Ofo

    …………………Biloxi

    …………………Tutelo-Saponi”

    ================================

    Bill

    #10502

    Tom
    Participant

    I’ll ask a friend of mine that new Alice, this Pamunkey connection is wierd!

    Also Alices Grandmother Rosa Lasuer Peritte, was like Ishi that last full blood.

    Alice lived outside the Tunica rez. in Louisiana and several of her baskets are around and do show some differences from her hosts work with whom her family lived after thier village near Cottonprt was wiped out with disease.

    There is several linguistical works on the Ofo so we should have a look at that and see just how different the languages really are. There a dialectual differences and then there are real differences, so maybe something is there that we can fall back on.

    The Occaneechi site is very good since you can hear how these old words sound, but remember Nikohna’s age and that may be some thing that we need to consider, the xsh ? sounds maybe harder than thy may need to be. All the best Tom

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

The forum ‘Share History Research’ is closed to new topics and replies.