April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #2925
Hello y’all…has anyone ever located any original source material concerning a Native American Reservation located in VA nearing the NC border in the time frame of say 1840-1860? I have heard numerous references to such a place but have been thus far unable to discern who(tribally) or where this place would have been. Thank you much in advance. Blessings~~~LaurieApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25728collinsParticipant
Also to add to BlondeyeLaurie’s question, were there any individual reservations, lands granted to individual Indians as reservations in the VA and N.C. border areas?April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25729PappyDickParticipant
I don’t know that one, but a place to look would be the treaties. I was just reading some stuff about Doublehead’s Reserve and Colbert’s Reserve, in a local history thing from Florence AL. I think those might have arisen from Dearborn’s Treaty, circa 1805 or so (I’m a little vague, but it’s in that era, anyhow). Doublehead ended up suing the US to remove white squatters from his reserve; and the lists of those encroaching became sort of “early settlers” censuses for the Florence area.
VA and NC treaties would tend to be earlier than that, mostly colonial, and not necessarily honored by the US after the Revolution.
These private grants to individual chiefs may have been somewhat secret provisions of the treaties, however. If so, they are a little harder to track.April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25745ForestParticipant
The only Virginia reservation near the NC border in that time period was the Nottoway Reservation near Courtland in Southampton County. I believe the last piece was allotted to individual Nottoway in 1878, and I have read that the last piece was sold out of Indian-descended hands around 1946, but that may not be accurate. Some of the Nottoway were counted as Indian as late as 1870, possibly later on the census for SOuthampton.April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25746ForestParticipant
See also the Chowanoke Reservation in Gates Co., NC. It was sold around 1790, but descendants held a piece of land in common, called Indiantown, until around 1830. The reserve was on Catherines Creek. Many descendants joined the presentday Meherrin community.April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25792beeleafParticipant
Laurie, which part of VA/NC? My family has mentioned a “reservation” that I can’t find, in Virginia. Not really on the NC border, but somewhere in southwestern VA. I think they were referring to a village, but am not sure.April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25795
Hello Bee….I’m not really certain…I have just heard over the past few years mention made of this supposed “VA Reservation”…and this being from numerous others who mention it but do not state any exactitude as to where it may have been located…I’ve heard that perhaps that is why some of our ancestors were not enumerated on some censuses…I’ve also heard that it may have been an Indian Village or Indian land/s but thus far I cannot locate where it would be either. There are numerous family members unaccounted for on census records despite diligent searches by myself and others so I thought I would perhaps examine the possibility that some could have removed to such a place. Wish I knew more…still hunting. Thanks too Forest *waves* for the inklings…still not certain if/how that may have played in…if some kin were in fact residing in such a place that would not have been enumerated/visited for census purposes, then I cannot imagine how we could even discern who was where and when. I’ll keep following any leads I get for now. Thanks to all…Blessings from here to there~~~LaurieApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25796
Hello Pappy…sorry for the delay in replying…Spring Break here…busy as usual too. Thank you for replying…I suppose most of the aforementioned Treaties are available at the county resource centers/libraries…I’m still yet trying to locate any that may apply…my library card priviledges do not include some online resource sites. Apparently alot of the “squatters” info is also vague and hard to locate too….just wish I lived closer to VA to be able to access more genealogical info. *shrugs* I’m thinking that by the time I can “retire” I’ll have decided that another State would be more interesting to relocate to…LOL. Maybe a Winebago would be the best research option huh? You take care and thank you again~~~LaurieApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25801
I don’t want to add any confusion to this search and subject but some of you have raised issues that seem familiar to some of our family history. My family from both sides (my grandmother’s father and mother) lived in the Red Bank area which is just west, nwest of Virgilina, Va. The Carolina/Virginia line goes through this little town and the state line also passes through the High Plains area which is in NC and Va. High Plains is the home of the Sapponi Indians of Person Co. NC and Halifax Co. NC. We have word involving cousins in the early 1900’s who remember going to visit “Indian” relatives in this area we assume since family lived on the fringe of this district. They remembered staying in the homes of “Indians” but some of them also talk about going and visiting Indians on a reservation and my grandmother’s sister was supposed to have gone to a reservation to visit relatives. I can see why an area like the High Plains or other isolate native communities might have been referred to as a reservation by those who did not know better. If you drove through the area occupied by the Haliwa-Sapponi in Warren and Halifax counties of North Carolina, and passed house after house with native people in the yards you would well see a similar sight in Cherrokee. We have not been able to make no official connection between our family and High Plains Sapponi but they were definitely there and one individual with our surname appears to have lived and moved in that area eventually moving west using the same routes as many on this forum used. Our history so far as I have heard has not used the Blackfoot term but I am carefully trying to investigate that. We were told we were Cherokee/Creek from the western part of the state so I am now very interested in the Ani-Stohini/Unami. There men are said to be quite tall and well built and this would certainly match my grandmother’s brothers. The term Cherokee and even a brief Creek reference in regards to them has been among the many names associated with them. But what you seek reservation wise may actually be an isolate native community that someone is calling a reservation. I know that could be possible in our reference for our family though not absolutely sure. EDApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25802
Correction: The High Plains Sapponi area encompasses parts of Person County, N C and Halifax County, Virginia not NC. My reference to Red Bank district is that it adjoins the northern part of High Plains on the western side of the little village of Virgilina. My reference to the Haliwa-Sapponi is that they live in Warren County , NC and Halifax County, NC. These counties run along the Carolina and Virginia line also but are entirely in North Carolina east of Granville and Vance counties in that order. If you can envision this you would have the following counties running along the Va/NC state line:
Person County, NC (including part of the High Plains Sapponi area-the balance being in Halifax County, Va); Granville County, NC; Vance County,NC; Warren County, NC (including part of Haliwa-Sapponi) and Halifax County, NC
(including balance of Haliwa-Sapponi isolate community) Hope that helps someone out there not to confuse the two Halifax Counties and the Virginia/Carolina issues. EdApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25804WachinikaParticipant
Hello Laurie and Everyone,
Here is an excellent FREE online full-text source for Treaties I used when I was a student.
Oklahoma State University Library, Stilwater, OK
Indian Affairs: Laws and Treaties
or that’s here: http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/index.htm
Don’t miss the bottom of the page, another totally different online text selection of treaties:
NEW! Early Indian Treaties from the University of Nebraska – Lincoln Electronic Text Center
or that’s here: http://libr.unl.edu:8888/etext/treaties/April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25805beeleafParticipant
Your mention of the Ani-Stohini/Unami caught my eye. They used to have a pretty cool website, with herbals and a paper describing some of the history. I have that paper somewhere, but have been unable to locate it.
Since my family lives in the same area as that tribe (and shares at least one surname), I’ve wondered if perhaps the reference to “the reservation” was related. I also wonder if there’s a Saponi connection, since the tribe is connected to a variety of tribes from different language groups.
My dad told me about going up to Buchanan, VA to live with some relatives “near the reservation” when he was young. This would have been in the 1940’s. That’s not the right state line, I know, but it’s curious.
Also, my Grandma (Foley, Bouldin, Collins, etc. line) had a painting of someone in her family who she said “lived on a reservation”. The man in the painting was obviously Indian (I believe it was what he was wearing that made it obvious). But I cannot find a trail leading back to an actual reservation. My family has lived in Stokes/Surry, NC and Patrick, Henry, and Floyd Co VA for ages.
Just pondering…April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25807rockhoundParticipant
PappyDick wrote: I don’t know that one, but a place to look would be the treaties. I was just reading some stuff about Doublehead’s Reserve and Colbert’s Reserve, in a local history thing from Florence AL. I think those might have arisen from Dearborn’s Treaty, circa 1805 or so (I’m a little vague, but it’s in that era, anyhow). Doublehead ended up suing the US to remove white squatters from his reserve; and the lists of those encroaching became sort of “early settlers” censuses for the Florence area.
Pappydick, can you point me to this information concerning Doublehead? He was supposed to be linked to my Indian side of the family, but after researching it, it turned out not to be true…then he popped up on another branch causing trouble for my great-great-great-great grandpa.
If you do a google search, you can find the modern day tribal lands in map form. I found the website the other day. I remember seeing two reservations along the NC/VA border in the present day, the Indians of Person County and the Haliwa Saponi are the two I remember.April 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25808
Beeleaf, my search has been long and hard and very trying at times but you continue on not leaving a stone or leaf unturned. It is possible with any of us that we have multiple tribal heritages and may never know any or all of them with any definitive proof. The important fact is you seem to have as I do some specific information as well as some family history that cannot be denied. We also have pictures and I had the privilege of knowing most of my grandmother’s siblings. My grandmother’s mother always told the family they were Cherokee/Muskegeon. Muskegeon would be a pretty specific and interesting word for a little country girl born in 1862 to know about don’t you think? She was born in Halifax County Virginia and married there. Now the question would be if the children/grandchildren heard her correctly or was she saying Moheton,Monacan or any other name they may have confused and I think Cherokee speaks for itself. The references to reservation could have been interpreted by children after 1900 possibly hearing of Indian reservations elsewhere but when they visited back among family living in or near one of the isolate native communities their mind immediately assumed reservation or they could have actually heard the location of their visit identified as such.
The Ani-Stohini/Unami are located primarily in 7 mountain counties in western Va. and 2 county in NC. Carroll, Grayson, Wythe, Washington, Smyth, Patrick, and Floyd in Va. and Surry and Alleghany Counties in NC. Seems like you ring a bell on some of them. Where would one find a comprehensive listing of the surnames going back through the years? Some of the sights found on my search engine only take you to what appears to be an ad page and I cannot enter their sites.
I wish you well with your search and I will certainly keep my eyes open for you . EdApril 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm #25818WachinikaParticipant
Perhaps if you posted the names, time periods, and places of a few of your dead ends others might notice them popping up while doing their searches. Maybe you’ve done this already. I couldn’t make out who they might be in your more recent posts. You work so hard. I hope you have some break throughs.:) Oh, also, lots of eastern WV was in Virginia earlier and I’d recently seen there were sizable populations of Indian people in Geenbrier County. I read that the 1790 and 1800 VA censuses were distroyed and what show up are reconstructed from tax lists. My Heinrich/Henry Derflinger shows up everywhere but never on a census, even through he was a Rev. War Veteran and owned 240 acres in Loudon Co. VA and other propertiy in Farquire Co. He died in 1804. His son Thomas b.1771 and moved around 1808 to OH never showed on a VA census. Based on my small sampling the VA databases seem to be missing alot of people.
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