What's Offensive?

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    vance hawkins


    I read a book Monacans and Miners and in it, it said Blacks and Monacans always got into fights as they had some quarrel against each other, I don’t recall the details.

    I have never met any Monacans, but I bet that person arguing with me never had either, and they were just upset cause I got upset that they were trying to claim some of my ancestors, who never lived where theirs lived. I don’t know why he said what he did, and I never said I was Monacan, but rather I mentioned my Woods and Hamilton’s lived in Rockbridge Co next door to the Monacans (I read some of them are in Rockbridge Co., too) and that those were Monacan surnames, implying that we “might be” related to them, not that we WERE related to them.

    Sometimes you have to be careful — especially researching Cherokee more than Saponi ancestors, who you tell you are related to. I have learned this the hard way. Some people glomp onto your ancestors and try to claim them as theirs, and you know you couldn’t possibly be very closely related to them. There are websites out there claiming my great great grandma “Hariet Guess” was part of a family descended from Martin Guest in Hot Springs Arkansas, and there is no proof of it at all and they knew it. Another website when I told them an orphan girl named Nancy Looney was raised by Hariet and her husband David Brown, came up saying Harriet was related to Chief John Looney and her mother’s maiden name was Looney. I made the mistake of guessing/wondering if we were related to any Looney’s since they raised an orphan girl by that name, and others take that info and place it as “fact” — when it wasn’t and they knew it — they tell this to the world on their website. Daniel “Panther” Yates did that to my Hariet (Guess) Brown because of that orphan girl surnamed “Looney”, and he’s supposed to be a scholar who should know better. I asked him to remove it but I never checked to see if he did or not.

    This is a big problem. We all make honest mistakes, but when we realise it we quit doing it. But these folks KNOW this was speculation and they start calling it “fact”. That’s wrong.



    Hey everyone, well we need to re-read the original post when replying to these topics, personally on this forum I really do not have a problem or a concern for how any of the members define themselves.

    The best I can offer is just be tactfull and considerate of other peoples feelings.

    So far I have really enjoyed all the posts and look forwrd to some positive input on how we can address the original questions!

    Erica thank you for being considerate of others and asking the questions that you did, it shows that you are thoughtful and caring for otheres, please hang in with us , I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

    We all come from diverse areas and all have had unique expierences, many have been here for a long time and others are fairly new.

    Erica you’ll see that when many of the people reply to your posts like Vance , Linda, Lynella, Tech, Saj, Coharie Roy, Patty and others that they really have it together and offer great insight into how we can achieve a common goal with respect to all people on this forum.


    I am glad to here that your mother’s friend was able to get her Tribal Papers.

    Personally, I’ve come to the decision to love who I am and not to get so caught up in proving who I am to others. My quest is to learn more about my family history. If I do get Tribal Papers during this journey, then great! But I am not going to spend the rest of my life trying to get them.

    I am like you Deirdre, I am not trying to prove that I am a Native American in order to get assistance from the government. As far as I am concern, I am able qualify for tons of assistance by being Black.

    I look forward to chatting with you soon



    Hey Folks like I said there’s no hard feelings here with me, and I think that for some it may be, why I don’t know, at any rate Iam very happy with all the posts on this and I have enjoyed hearing from everyone.

    Your mind is like a parachute, it has to be open to work!

    Thnx Everyone!


    Not knowing everyone’s beliefs, and at the risk of being offensive to someone, I wish one and all a very happy thanksgiving. I have been very pleased with the open discourse on this and several other threads. We can all be thankful that we have the right to be offended. That is a luxury that was denied many of our ancestors. Best wishes to all my relations 😉




    I watched the Macy’s Parade on TV. If anyone else did, I am curious to know what you thought about Rita Coolidge’s float with the Native American dancers, the Native American music underscoring her lyrics and the float itself (typical harvest images) ?? Is she Native? If so, what?

    – Deirdre


    Hi to all……I am pretty new to this forum. I posted a new thread in the Shooting the Breeze area dealing with this same exact issue. Some of you may want to just hop over and read it if you like. Linda referred me over to this thread, and I think I’ve got my answer, or rather your many veiwpoints on the subject. Thank you all for enlightening me. Now I really do want to change the name to something else.

    Again Thanx.



    We must remember that not all “Full Blood” indians look like hollywood has betrayed us to be. It has been a long journey for many of us in getting our heritage back, meaning that it was safer at one time in history to except the European label given us as colored, black, mulatto and other titles that were used to pretty much make us extinct and also to be able to tax us. There was a lot of that going on in Warrenton when a lot of the Saponi left the Hollister area and moved into to town (Warrenton). That is what happened to my family. We need to wake up and do more research on our families and find who we truly are and not except the titles that have been given to us by the Europeans. There was not a lot of slavery in the eastern part of NC except indians that were taken as slaves. The Tuscaroras helped the slaves from the deep south through the underground railroad. I’m sure some of them did mix, but keep in mind the slaves that had escaped did not want to hang around here…. I have met a few people from Africa that are offended that Americans call themselves African American because they are not from Africa. That is not to say they don’t have ancestors in Africa, but they are not from African. I can understand that in a way because it is offensive for NA wannabees to take claim on a heritage that is not really theirs. We had our land and everything taken from us, we (NA) are the indigenious people of America. That is what we are fighting so hard to get back.




    Do a little more digging into your family history. Remember that things are not always what they seem. I have found in my research as far back as 200 years that all sides of my family married Native people. It appeared that some of them may have had mixed blood, but so far everyone has been Native American. So don’t assume because a few may claim to be African American that they truly are, because the europeans were the ones to label us as such to wipe out the our culture and our people. And remember Creator didn’t just place people in Asia and Africa we NA were indigeneous to America. All I’m saying is dig a little deeper, you may be surprised!



    I am saying thanks to your comment because I too feel discouraged sometimes during this journey.


    lynne pepper

    Don’t be discouraged.

    Its a shame that being Indian is still a football that is used in some kind of cultural/race game.

    Once you know who you are, you are miles ahead of all the people who want to tell you WHAT you are.

    Be Well


    lynne pepper

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by lewis


    I dont’ celebrate Thanksgiving.

    Because Thanksgiving is usually celebrated as a day to,thank the Pilgrims.

    The Pilgrims dont’ deserve my thanks, or anybody elses thanks.

    Hello Lewis.

    I always told my kids that thanksgiving was the day that the English thanked the Indians.

    Many years later I married an Englishman. He was told that he had to cook thanksgiving dinner because it was the day that the English thanked the Indians. He did so with good cheer….but I had to confess to him that this was not what thanksgivng “meant” in the US. When I told him…I had to tell the kids. I said:” Kids, I have to tell you something….people don’t think that thanksgiving is the day that the English thank the Indians.”

    They said “WHO?!”

    I said: “everybody else.”

    They said: “well they SHOULD!”

    So that is what thanksgiving means to us. Every year, my English husband cooks dinner for us to thank us. ( not that he gives a damn about the pilgims. He calls them bloody stupid bastards.)

    Cheers to you.


    lynne pepper

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by lewis

    [B]Hi its Lewis. Until recently i used to point out, the fact that certain Native American tribes, were today made up entirely,of Native American/European/African mixed people.

    The reason i did this was i thought, if people knew this , they would be more likely to accept me as NativeAmerican too.

    I no longer do this. because i dont want to offend the members of those tribes.

    Just because a book said those tribes had intermarried so much with Afroamericans, that the entire tribe was now part african, doesnt’ mean all of them are.

    And even if its true, its not my place to tell other people who they are.

    If someone claims to be only Native American, or only European/Native American, when they infact are Native American/European/African thats thier right.

    I understand why some people insist they are only Native American, or only European/Native American, when they have african in them too.

    Hello Lewis.

    People are still scared and worried about racial identification.

    I like to think that its people like us who can show everyone a better way. Personally, it pains me to see this kind of “idea” alive in people of native descent….that is, the idea of racial separation.

    You know, even Thomas Jefferson wrote, concerning natives, that in the long run,”our blood will mingle with theirs”…this I think, was his solution to the racial problems in America. And we all know that he mingled blood as he would……

    I think the idea of a truly Creole America was in the minds of many people in the colonial period. This has been achieved, but NOT aknowledged in the US. I won’t say that it is to our shame as Americans, but it definately is to our belittlement. It has shown an unwillingness to separate ourselves from Europe as a soverign and unique nation.

    Having said that, I want to go back to native blood. If our Indian ancestors can teach us one thing that we can use in modern life, it is to value good blood. Good blood has to do with honorable action, to be mindfull of the sacred and the practical, and the judjment of each person as an individual…whether they be bad or good. This kind of attitude led to the mixing of races. A bad man or woman was not good enough; a good man or woman was all that was necessary. This kind of leeway in human relations is the greatest legacy that our Indian ancestors can teach us.

    I am not putting my ancestors on a pillar. They were ordinary people…however, all of our Indian ancestors did have an ideal, it was an ideal that was repeated in stories. This ideal person walked with honor, kept their word, took care of their family and tribe, and respected each person according to their gifts and their willingness to TRY to achieve the ideal in so far as they could.

    I think that if we honor our ancestors, we can only do this much ourselves, and it will be enough.

    Be Well,


    quest for facts

    Hi Lynne,

    Long time since we head from you. You know if everyone celebrated Thanksgiving the way you all do there would hardly be anyone to cook since just about everyone is mixed.We wouldn’t get anything in my house.



    Thank you for your post Lynn. Thank you. When these words come from our hearts it touches others, as you have touched me; and

    I think our ancestors can smile.


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