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Hey Jeff this is something that many people recognize as a huge question but in your query you did mention something that we all share in, being “Eastern Souian Metis” or mixed blood people originating in the Carolinas and Va., for me it’s “Eastern Siouan and Cherokee” or Blackfoot Cherokee!
Hey Anita , hang in there everyone gets flack now and then, share with those that will share with you., don’t go over board and really think things through, be conscious of how you look to others and how others look to you.
I have gone through this many times and maybe in certain ways I still am going through “it” but I am a bit thicker skinned than most.
When learning about these things keep your circle of friends small and share with those that have the same focus as you do.
I hope all is well.
I agree to a certain extent, however.
There is one such group that I have been studying for many years, I have visited with them, been taught amny elements of thier culture by them, they were written up in an early BIA report, (smithsonian) and then dropped.! years later they are rejoining so to speak and getting organized as a community once again., amny of the elders never left thier little town, they are still there.
While this small group was away from thier homes in the very ealr 1900’s the main body of the group was “persuaded” over night to remove to Oklahoma, this small family group misssed the removal and latter were written up in a Smithsonian bulletin, then ignored.One fellow even moved to Washington DC to help on these tribal papers etc where “he fell ill and died”.
Anyway the descendants of those people left behind are getting everything together in order to ask for federal ercognition , something that should have been given prior to 1900.!
There are several groups out there that should be given recognition and never were, if they are a legitimate group , I say “go for it”.
But for those groups that have no basis only time will tell.
There is many groups across the south that should have something but on what level?
One such group has the papers back to the 1700’s and have been called extinct many times but they canh prove who they are, the FEDS say “sure we see that” but we’re not sure if you deserve recognition.
People need to recognized as Native Americans wether or not they get federal money!
Well
If you mean something to let the public know who wea re then anything might work, maybe the ESDA needs a flag!
However if you mean something that is not obvious to everyone then those small gorgets that people had purchased a while back might work, BUT something more subtle.. the old Keetowah people wore crossed pins in thier hats, that might work.
At one time I used to have a copper arrow (3″ long) that was a stir stick, you know the copper guild at Cherokee might be able to make them?
Have not but will, the Smokies are purley magic, I have seen the southern end of them and look forward to it agin this winter.
Cherokee must be a blast.. have a great time., “if I had a credit card I’d buy ya lunch”!
July 14, 2007 at 10:14 pm in reply to: This is the first draft of the surname list the Ridgetop Band of Shawnee #27459Well thanx for the heads up, there are people here that have been at this a very long time, and tracing family back to thier origins is how people choose to ID, mine included.
When someone here makes a suggestion it’s not out of spite but rather out of real concern.
There is a some mis-information out there on the web and people have a tendancy to believe all they read on the web., and Saponi Town does not want to add to it. This is not to say there is anything wrong with what you have posted only the way other people can take it, I am sure you want to remain above board and not be misinformed or add to any confusion.
We have people here from many nations and communities, no doubt since my family went to Shawnee Oklahoma for land they also maybe of Shawnee hertiage.
There are several names on your list that make up a part of my family tree, those are sir names, which only shows that these people married who they most loved.
The term “mixed breed” may be atlered to “mixed blood” if anything a bit more appropriate.
Hang in there you’ll learn a great deal here, and so far we have enjoyed your company!
happy Birthday Connie, you know as time goes by we learn so much about who we are and a “BDay” is one of those events that brings it all home, so a year older and many wiser, all the best on your special day Connie.
Saponi and Cheraw timeline
Posted by: Kevin Mullins (ID *****0358) Date: March 03, 2007 at 17:28:20
In Reply to: Gleanings from my old file cabinet by kevin mullins of 20585
http://genforum.genealogy.com/melungeon/messages/19792.html
Saponi abstracts from dissertation
From Patricia Baldwin, posted on Melungeon-L email list ca 1998. Apparently this was from a document that was formatted differently, and I had to clean up a little
“clutter”. Some parts were a little confusing, especially when it came to matching up the sources, but it’s still worth checking out. I’m not sure if the address listed below is operable today.
Does anyone know what happened to Patty Baldwin? She had an old sash that was an heirloom in her family, and she was told that it looked like a sash fom a soldier of the Lavant, ca 1500 or 1600s.
This ‘document’ and citation(s) was in the Fall issue of ‘Old Floyd County ( KY ) Families’, Vol. 3, No. 1
Old Floyd Co. KY Families
3 Clark Branch
Harold , KY
41635-9601
INDIAN/MELUNGEON ABSTRACTS
The following abstracts are from four calendars of documents compiled for a dissertation tentatively entitled
“Who Are Your People: Indian-Pioneer Histories From The Southern Appalachians And Related Tribes, Bands, And Families, 1660 To 1997” (Department Of Anthropology,
Michigan State University).
The calendars are titled:
“Eastern KY Pioneer-Indian 1740 To The Present”;
“Cherokee Diaspora 1740 To The Present”;
“Southern Tribes: Saponi, Tutalo, Sara, etc. 1600 To The Present”;
and “Melungeon Dialogue 1730 To The Present”.
For anyone wanting more information on the Indian-Pioneer families these documents mention
contact:
Richard Allen Carlson., Jr.
328 Regent St.
Lansing, MI 48912.
Hancock County Times; [HCT & IP] . April 17, 1903. Article by the Hon.
Lewis M. Jarvis (lawyer of Sneedville, b. in Scott Co. 1829). States all that has been
written on Melungeons is erroneous, and are derisively dubbed “Melungeons” by
locals. States they were not here when Boone entered country in 1761; doings of the long
hunters; Greasy Rock a rendezvous point for traders – Sneedville; Greasy Rock first
settled by Melungeons, and Newman’s Ridge and Blackwater later.
In 1795 or 1804 those called Melungeons settled area with land grants and muniments of title and settled same
time as the whites did.
Names were Vardy, Ben, & Solomon Collins, Shepherd Gibson,
“Paul Bunch and the Goodmans, chiefs and the rest of them.”
They had already lost their language and spoke English very well. “They were originally friendly
Indians who came with the whites… from the Cumberland County and New River, VA … some
stopped on Stoney Creek, Scott County [and other points along the Blue Ridge]… The white
emigrants with the friendly Indians erected a fort on the bank of the river…Ft.
Blackmore, and here yet many of these friendly ‘Indians’ lived in the Mountains of Stoney
Creek … A few half-bloods may be found … from here they came to Newman’s Ridge and
Blackwater”; amalgamation with whites; half-bloods, quarter-bloods, & the “old
pure bloods”; some in War of 1812: James Collins, John & Mike Bowlin, and some others
not remembered”; those who quite full blooded. Were like white people, good & bad
citizens, some among best property owners in county, word is bond, “they have left
records which show these facts.”
Amelia County Courthouse, VA – Deed Book 1; (ASV,V.37:42-Holland, C.G.,
“A Saponi Note”). November 8, 1737.
Deed from Jn. Taylor of Surry Co. to Alex. Bruce of Amelia Co. for 300 acres,
“…beginning at a white oak above the Sappon Indians cabins, thence…near a branch
of Winningham Creek, site south of Winningham Creek, West of State Route 617 -sketch MAP
I
Well don’t read everthing that is on the web, the western Blackfoot have been here for a very long time, infact probably thousands of years.
They are an algonquin speaking people like many others, but where they originated from could be anyone’s guess. They do have an old eastern style pipes, but that style of pipe and the sacred smoking technologies that are with those folks today are not what you would call indicative of an eastern Woodland origin, there are connections but I personally think that it’s sparse.
The western or Northern Blackfoot are my close nieghbours friends and relatives so I am pretty familiar with those folks and the culture here, little to nothing is “eastern woodland”.
Hello and no the “Eastern Blackfoot” are not related to any other Blackfoot tribe.
The introduction pages to this site will help clarify who we are.
I would hestitate to say wether we are related to the Northern Blackfoot people, related as all people are and that’s about it.
Heriatge is proven through research and family oral histories, if you have the Blackfoot, Cherokee, or Cherokee-Blackfoot or Blackfoot-Cherokee stories in your families as much of the information here is directed at that research then you’ll find this site very useful., aswell it also includes many other tribes, like Saponi ofcourse but almost all other SC, NC, and va groups including the Cherokee and the Tutelo people.
Hey Dan, I don’t know about the fungus thingy but, we look at Diamond willow as a distinct type of willow because what grows next to it has no fungus.
It grows the willow on the east side of the Rockies, here I am about 2 hrs from the base and it grows here aswell.
I have seen this made into lamps and many other items, it usually has large diamonds in the grain, and is understand it is from a twig breaking off.
In the northern part of Canada it creates large stands and there is a highly sought after fungus that grows on it, that particular faungus is used as a smudge, like sweet grass.
The tallest that I have seen it grow is around 25 feet high and that is the branched crooked tree, for a walking stick it could be possible to get them as much as 6-7 feet maybe, I did see some people in a air port once and the crowd went wild over these things, why I have no idea but they got a lot of attention, and yes the people that did have them were coming back from Alaska.
I have no idea if I can get them across the border for you or not (I live in Canada).
Maybe!, if I cross the 49th maybe then, but I’ll ask around.
PS. I have no idea if the Montana Blackfoot are continuing with thier projects, but remember the Blackfoot here are Eastern Siouan and seperate from the Montana and the Blackfoot Sioux from the Dakotas.
The only similarity is the name.
Thanx for the question.
walking sticks have been around forever, no doubt our first tool.
I personally use a spade shovel!
if I am working I am walking and a spade shovel is also my other hand.
As I have posted previously, I mine a stone for an income, that stone is most always found on rigid lopes that are an easy 60 degree angle.
The spade has been a real life saver many times, both to dig the stone and to dig a place to rest, also as a “brake” on the way down if need be.
I use ice climbing spikes on my boots, knee pads, duc tape around my calves to keep my jeands from being torn by the spikes,a back pack and shovel- gloves etc, really an odd job but very rewarding.
If I am just hiking which I enjoy, I’ll use anything that is handy.
I would suggest a nice length of river cane if I was in the south, just cover the bottom end with a small metal or wood cap and the same on the top, light as a feather and very durable., I find that some walking sticks can be just to heavy, cane is great stuff.
Hey Dan nice to see you here, I see that you have many of the names that appear here on SAponi Town so hang in there and enjoy yourself, Welcome once again.
Hey Dan well several comments that I would like to make, first when it come to DNA and technical studies her handle says it all “Techteach”, she’s about the best guide here for that, her and Bill are really amazing, Bill is especially so for the gen. side of things I have never met anyone more credible in the genealogical sciences than Bill.
There’s alot of “hocus pocus” out there re. “melungeon” reseacrh, really the name has been accepted as something other than what it originally was a perjorative! Steve-o is right there is no melungeon “race” just some folks that were given a rough time.
Linda Carter here is our “fearless” leader, Smile Linda) she’s the Lady Of the House” and owns this site, we owe her a great deal.
There’s ome really neat members aswell many stop in from time to time, Pappy Dick and rockhound have some great post’s happening and I reliy on them often to really “bring it on home”.
I know that I cannot include everyone, DoveLady is our resident expert on beadwork and is in your neck of the woods!
I do the material culture thread, it helps with some folks making outfits or looking for info. on the material side of culture.
Anyway oh,, BTW what Steve-o was refering to (I think) is some of the work by Barry Fell, like America BC. etc some of it may have a basis but it’s very much the “Chariots of the Gods” back in the 70’s.
Really odd stuff but still an interesting read, if your “sharp” you’ll catch the fall out!
Hey ladies, well my late friends are always with me, atleast thier memories are so close.
The raw hide bowl was a real eye opener! Sometime we’ll have to pound berries together Barb!
I once told a crowd of listeners that “we waz so poor as kids, that we’s used to take popping corn an beat between stones to make our corn flakes!
The snow shoes are a real art form, check out the Attikamek snow shoe, real mindblowers.
I have seen them made and it’s alot of interlacing, there is this fellow, Henry Vaillancourt that does fabulous birch bark canoes ( he’s on the web) the snow shoe article is there aswell. Check him out!
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