Forum Replies Created
August 22, 2014 at 1:32 pm in reply to: Names from Southeastern Indian Refuges from Virginia, the Carolinas and Tennessee… #36554
Marc, it seems we may share some of the same family surnames. Snelling and Parrish who live in the Lake of the Ozarks MO area.
BobSeptember 3, 2013 at 10:14 pm in reply to: Are there any enrolled saponi nation members on this site? #36251
I, too am interested in this Tribe. I have family who would have qualified 100+ yrs ago. Would this allow my family enroll?? We live in MO and have since late 1700’s and others, early 1800’s.. Bob WoolerySeptember 3, 2013 at 10:14 pm in reply to: Are there any enrolled saponi nation members on this site? #36257
Linda, you are very correct in your BIA assessment. It goes, also, for our Tribes out here.
GStrait, What do you know about this MO “Tribe”? I’ve heard about them from this site.September 3, 2013 at 10:14 pm in reply to: Are there any enrolled saponi nation members on this site? #36266
DStrait;36893 wrote: cherosage, I responded to your question about the Saponi Nation of Missouri earlier and somehow it did not post. They are located in Willow Springs, MO which I believe is in Franklin Cty. It appears they are a good group and you could give them a call for more info.
I must apologize for the above incorrect information.
Corrected: First Peoples Powwow
March 23-24, 2012
BVAC Gymnasium, 19404 Holke Road, Independence MO
MC: Don Greenfeather
Headsinger: Jerry Gaydusek
Headman: Bob Woolery
Headlady: Paulene (PJ) Knoxsah-Green
Head Gourd Dancer: Haygah Noear
AD: Gary King
Fri: GD=5-7 and Intertribal = 5-11
Sat: GD = 12-2 and 6-7, InterTribal = 2-5 and 7-11
Head lady special- Straight Dancers winner take all
I would like to invite anyone who may happen to be in the MO area during July to come to the MO State Fair Grounds in Sedalia MO 65301. You may enter this powwow in the web search and find it that way. You may also e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org. Please introduce yourself and I will try to give you any info you may want. Thanks, Cuz’s, Bob
Nannanae, Have you researched this Hamilton family much more? I am related to a Robert Shaw Hamilton son of Thomas Hamilton who founded Hamilton Station in the Nashville TN area(?). I know they settled in the Pecan Bayou TX area near now Paris, Red River Co., TX. Many of those who traveled with this family went on to OK. Robert was the penner of the TX Declaration of Independence. He was also, a Captain of the Light Horsemen. This would relate to the Chickasaw and or Choctaw.
Does any of this make sense to your research?
Nannanae;36891 wrote: NO actually I am a awful researcher and just wanted to provide what I do remember so people can find their famous families or could it be find out why some indians hated your family 😛 really I am an awful researcher especially if I don’t know what I am looking for first!
I don’t have a clue what all names may have been used , sometimes to hide who people were.
and I am a really lousy researcher unless I know first what I’m looking for. and yes there are some very good chickasaw Connections that I can’t really prove , if you need that info.
if you do a google search using the words “Red King” I think and “Hair lip” you should find it someplace . one of the unnamed pictures done by Hamilton is of a hair lip with a Turbin like thing on his head. it says walking and or wandering person .. . this is a relations of Shoeboots. is either a brother or a brothers son or maybe his sisters sons . and he is called a name like Tuskingo ,Tuchihingo( sp????????? Tuskihigo so it says in that document When talking to RED KING it means “hair lip” it might even be translated as “going snake..” I’m not positive of that , I thought that name meant “horse..” (well Someones name someplace in the family means ‘horse..” or horse thief ) and so you can see with the communication there in those documents with RED king. That the man named Hair lip is very respected with the Chickasaw as representative/ ambassador like of that family group . and IF he is really ‘ going snake’ or son of going snake he is also very respected in the Creeks and maybe Choctaw too under that name. which also points to there being family connections in those places maybe.
so some good questions is like is RED King really maybe Pumpkin Boy ? then Shoeboots sister is Pumpkin boys wife and he is king of creeks and or Chickasaw who later became part of the Creeks. SO when Pumpkin boy dies he very wealthy and they have a daughter . so …..see we can trace these things in circles forever and spellings and translations of words and forcing of things political in boxes that may or may not ever be admitted.. and that can drive you insane….. just a lot of stuff has been forgot and Don’t stuff get forgot on purpose usually? so can anyone really put it back right now or even close ? probably not so much.
no I am am really a lousy reseacher. because I see things that maybe aint there and sometimes can or can’t prove 😛 either way I can get in big trouble ;P
Thanks, Good hunting… Bob
You have a lot of good info. Dragging Canoe was a famous Cherokee among the Chickamauga river Cherokees. He passed away just prior to the mass exidus west. Bowles was elected as the leader when they got over here. Many went south into AR, many came west on into MO, and some went north along the Iowa area. Remember that there were no actual states or such named territory, just NDN territory. Bowles went on south, the rest who stayed aroud the now OK AR MO corner area were the Old Settlers now known as the Ketoowahs. We are the other Fed. Rec. Cherokee Tribe with the OCN and the Easterns. In our area among the Cherokees many of our families have multiple blood lines among the Ketoowahs and the OCN along with the Shawnees, Delawares, Osages and Creeks. Not to mention any other Tribe in the area.
Dragging Canoe, if I’m not mistaken was from the Blue Clan. My Grandma Woolery was a Putney with Wilson and Bryant relations. Grandma was Blue Clan. My Grandpa Woolery is related to Red Bird Smith and the Byrds, Starrs, Howards, Murrells, Whites, Shirleys and many more. Our blood line is very mixed Tribally. My Mom is from the Selby, Hale, Herring, Hamilton and Parrishes among others. She is the direct line from Robert Shaw Hamilton of Red River Co, TX from Hamilton Station in TN. My Mom is of the Chikasaw, Citizen Band Potawatomy, Cherokee and maybe Choctaw, Osage etc…. Well, I’m rambling now. Hope you find your family.. BobNovember 24, 2010 at 3:02 am in reply to: Keowee Cherokee village in Mulberry Fields (Now Wilkesboro), NC and WATERS Family #36243
What does anyone know of this Wooten family? I have a copy of her picture and she doesn’t even have any appearance of negro. She is older in this picture and seems slight or quite small. IF, this is the same Wooten.
Annette King;36076 wrote: Thanks so very much for the information on the Keyauwee tribe Linda! I had not been finding much information at all on them.
Our family lore has always been that we are Cherokee or Catawba. I have found that we are probably both with more Cherokee than Catawba though. We have several different lines in our family that are Cherokee and one possibly Catawba. The documents I have been referring to seem to all claim Cherokee for my Waters side of the family. They lived in the Ready’s River area of Wilkes County, NC in the 1790’s to early 1800’s with the wife Elisabeth dying in about 1812 and husband leaving area with children split up and given/apprenticed to other families.
I have not looked up the rejected applications yet. Not sure how to go about that. I know it was applied for Sept 8, 1896 Application #4292. Do I have to actually go to DC? From what I understand, it is claimed in them that the wife of John Philip Waters and mother of his children was Cherokee. It is said he also married a Catawba woman after his Cherokee wife’s death. His first wife had a white name–Elisabeth Cullin/Cullum/Cullom. She is named in the document. Below is some of the the information that I am going on that was given to me by a woman named Brenda Keck. There is information on my family in the book called “Annals of Southwest Virginia” that calls the children Quarteroons.
An Indian community on the Yadkin River in the Mulberry Fields area of what is now Wilkes County lived prior to the arrival of white settlers in the 1750’s. This community had the oral tradition of being descendants of the Chowans and the survivors of The Lost Colony from the eastern coast of North Carolina as well as Portugease descent. From the coastal area, the tribe joined the Catawbas and then moved up the Yadkin River to the Mulberry Fields area in the foothills of the Appalachians. This was neutral territory between the Catawbas and the Cherokees. The first white man to cross the Catawba River and settle in Western N.C. was WILLIAM SHERRILL in 1742, but the Yadkin area which was not as “farmable” as the lower Catawba Valley remained isolated from white exploration until BISHOP SPANGENBERG mapped this area in 1752 and identified one white family living there. By the 1780s the Indian community had orchards and plantations. In the late 1700s and early 1800s a conflict arose over land grants and the same land being granted more than once. The property belonging to the Indian community was taken and sold at the courthouse in the late 1700s. The founding family of the known descendants of this Chowan community are JOHN P. WATERS & ELIZABETH CULLON. The children are William P. Waters, Wesley P. Waters, Wallace Waters, Louisa Waters, Ketton and Wilburn Waters. Wilburn Waters is the famous Indian from Ashe, and Wilkes Co., NC and Washington GCo., VA, as chronicled in The Virginia Gazette in 1820-1830s. Some family members made claims through the Cherokee Land Claims process, conducted by Guion Miller in 1901-1906. Two generations of the family members were prosecuted under the state’s anti-miscegenation laws, which prohibited American Indians marrying whites. Because settlement Indians were part of the community, they were subject ot the civil and criminal laws of the state and counties. Direct descendents still live in the foothills of the Appalachians in Caldwell, Ashe and Wilkes Counties.
In 1843 the State of North Carolina v. WILLIAM P. WATTERS, son of JOHN WATERS, in a court held at Ashe County, convicted WILLIAM WATERS and ZILPHIA THOMPSON of fornication. WILLIAM P. WATERS, son of ELIZABETH CULLUM, who was one half Cherokee Indian by blood. and JOHN P. WATERS of Scotch (?) blood, was prosecuted in in the state court of the State of North Carolina for marrying ZILPHA THOMPSON, the mother of his children. Not being sufficiently removed from his Indian blood to be free from prosecution under the State law prohibiting the marriage of Indians and Whites, WILLIAM WATERS was found guilty and fined him a good sum and was ordered to leave the State of North Carolina. It was proven in court that William P. Waters was of Cherokee Indian blood. His wife, ZILPHA, was one-sixteenth Cherokee blood through her line of descent from NED SIZEMORE, a full-blood Cherokee Indian.
Waters and Thompson appealed their case to the North Carolina Supreme Court claiming that they had lawfully married and that some evidence supporting Waters’ contention of “being descended from Portugese and not Negro or Indian ancestors” had been wrongfully disallowed. Water’s racial composition was the pressing issue for the high court. If Waters were Portugese, then his marriage to Zilphia Thompson was legal and hence the convictions would be overturned. The North Carolina Supreme Court reviewed the testimony of the trial witnesses. ISSAC TINSLEY, a witness for the State, stated that he knew Waters’ grandparents and that they were “coal black Negroes.” Defense witnesses contradicted Tinsley’s testimony asserting that Waters’ grandmother, MARY WOOTEN, was “not as black as some Negroes and had thin lips.” Other defense witnesses testified that they knew Waters’ parents. His mother, ELIZABETH CULLOM, was described as a “bright mulatto with coarse straight hair” and his father as a “white man but of a dark complexion for a white man.” From this testimony the high court concluded that further evidence as to Waters’ racial composition would not change the fact that in North Carolina Waters had sufficient black ancestry to be defined as a person of color. The high court declared: “But admit that the defendants (sic) grandfather was white, and the grand-mother only half African – of which there is no evidence, still the defendant would have been within the degree prohibited fr om contracting marriage with a white woman. We say, prohibited degree because although the act which annuls marriages between the two races, uses the words “persons of color” generally we are of opinion, that expression must be construed to other disabilities imposed , for persons of a similar nature upon persons of mixed blood.” Unfortunately for WATERS and THOMPSON, their cover of closeness of color argument proved insufficient to protect them from state punishment.
In the court documents where the child of theirs was being tried for fornication it is claimed again that she was CherokeeNovember 24, 2010 at 3:02 am in reply to: Keowee Cherokee village in Mulberry Fields (Now Wilkesboro), NC and WATERS Family #36244
cherosage;36872 wrote: What does anyone know of this Wooten family? I have a copy of her picture and she doesn’t even have any appearance of negro. She is older in this picture and seems slight or quite small. IF, this is the same Wooten.
I’m sorry, I have a picture of Martha Wooten Putney married to Robert Putney. BobNovember 24, 2010 at 3:02 am in reply to: Keowee Cherokee village in Mulberry Fields (Now Wilkesboro), NC and WATERS Family #36245
I still want to know more about this Wooten family… Thanks, Bob
I’m very sorry that I have taken so long to get beck on here only to find out about my Cuzn. We were related in many different lines which vined around ourselves. I knew she had’nt been well early last year, but, I thought she was getting better.
My thoughts and prayers for her family. She will be such a big loss for them and the rest of us. She always had such a wealth of family info. I knew all I had to do was ask and she knew the answer.
BobAugust 18, 2010 at 9:36 pm in reply to: The Lost Tribes of North Carolina. Part II: Colonial Granville County North Carolina #35333
Would you know if my Allens and Howards are on this list? I’m sure saj would also be interested.
I’m sorry it’s ripley052.