Forum Replies Created
Curious to know more about your Moon line. Where they part of the Quaker Moon Colony of Samuel Moon?
Something I also believe. Lately I have been drinking a Dream Recall Tea from The Algonquin Tea Company up here in the Ottawa Valley. The ingredient is sweet gale. Lately I’ve been getting some answers after much waiting. I get impatient but answers are always worth it when I finally get them. Then I feel my impatience was foolish. 🙂
At normal thresholds I haven’t seen any matches between you and Cindy. Doing a multi-kit analysis Cindy’s mom has matches to my mom M103622, uncle M026223 , 2nd cousin A248622, 3rd cousin A248622, and Sheila A540385 from the Saponi group we were in on FB. At normal thresholds the only person that Cindy has a match to is Sheila.
I notice there is a Childress kit A706312 that has sizeable matches to you and Cindy’s mom. Childs/Childress being a Saponi name. Not sure if it’s married or maiden name in this case.
-Marc aka Seneca Drybread
FYI – Security fixes seem to have disabled the Blogs function.
I’ve been asked if our Indiana Jones-Smith line is connected to the Jeffries cabinet makers there.
Is your Uriah Jeffries the one in Xenia, Greene County Ohio in 1860 listed as cabinet maker with wife Catharin and seven children? On the same page there is another Jeffries household, and a Jones. There is also a Bowers. Brower is a line that marries into our Indiana Jones-Smith line with Saponi oral history.
Looking at my DNA cousins trees for Y-DNA Avent lines marrying into Saponi names…
There are multiple descendants of Peter Avent b.1720 Albermale VA -1779 who marries a Sims and a Massey and whose child marries a Bolling descendant. His mother is listed as Margaret Gooch. One later generation in this tree is born in Granville NC and passes in Indiana. More descendants seem to have gone to Tennessee. The marry into Smith, Boling, Day, Miller and Hedrick lines that are have Saponi history.
The oldest picture in these lines is Caleb Baker.
Grandson of Elizabeth Avent, g-granson of Peter Avent. Mother listed as Mourning Dove, her mother as Red Wing with no husbands listed. Females in later generations are named Morning as well some in Harlan KY.
Although all the Jones children were born in southern Virginia, most found their final resting place in Indiana. John, Massa, Tressa and Keziah passed in eastern Indiana, Sarah in Tennessee, and Anna in Iowa. (Leven, Solomon and Mary’s final resting place is unknown). While there are many descendants in Tennessee, the majority removed to Indiana all prior to the 1850s. Some lines continued further west, likely due to intolerance of their religious beliefs. Some continued to move to Utah to become early Mormons, some lived alongside the Utes.
There was a spiritual awakening around this time with outgrowths of many new faiths. John is known as ‘Rev John Jones’ in most records. It is not clear his faith. It would seem to me that it was survival Christianity. Becoming a Christian community in order to avoid being removed from the land by government law or settler violence. It is worth noting that the predominant Christian faith among modern-day Catawba is Mormonism.
This generation were forced to move from their place of birth and their Native homeland near the time of the Fugitive Slave Act in 1793. Massa and Anna would both live to see the second Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 that would lead to Civil War. These lines are connected in some degree to the Quakers. The 1850 law was basically a declaration of war on the values and beliefs of the Quakers. This generation would not survive to see the outbreak of Civil War.
Anna Jones was the last surviving member of this generation. She passed aged 74 on Wednesday October 19th 1859 (newspaper clipping from this day). The day after John Brown and his men were captured at Harper’s Ferry WV by Robert E Lee and JEB Stuart. Our Coppock cousins Edwin and Barclay Coppock, lieutenants to Brown, were Quakers who eschewed nonviolence and raided the federal armory with Brown and other allies to arm a slave rebellion. Barclay escaped along with 4 others via the Underground Railroad. Edwin was captured and hung two months later, as was Brown.
I mention this not just to date their time, but because these people were part of the same community. This generation of Jones were of primarily Catawba/Siouan ancestry. It’s unlikely they would have easily passed as Black or White. The racial constructs that were developing in the United States excluded them. The same ancestors moving west from Virginia to Ohio/Indiana are the same ones who organized what became known as the Underground Railroad. These were people who organized their own communities with their own morals and values which sometimes ran contrary to federal law.
Another reason this line is known as ‘Indiana Jones’ is Anna who passed in Iowa had no known children. Sarah Jones’ marriage to Joseph Marion Trout in Tennessee produced eight children. These five boys and three girls had many Trout grandchildren. While the next generation came to have different surnames, their ancestors would have all belonged to the same clan. It is not clear to what clan these Jones belonged. It is clear that Blackfoot-Siouan oral history passed down seven generations on to descendants living today. This oral history traveled on multiple unconnected, primarily female, lines.
Rev John Jones passed in Randolph County Indiana, he married Sarah Sumpter and fathered twelve children, some of whom were among those to move west. Massa Jones passed in Grant County, she married Francis Smith and had eight children, including first born David B Smith. Tressa passed in Boone County she married Joseph Benjamin Trout. These two ‘Joe Trout’s are thirteen years apart. It is not clear through my research if they are related. It is clear they were in the same times and places as each other and the Jones line.
Clinton County Ohio is a location many came to first after Virginia and before Indiana. This group were still in Virginia in the 1790s, in Ohio in the 1820s, and Indiana in the 1830s. Solomon Jones is listed married to Elizabeth Barrett in Clinton County in family histories – no official sources exist. They have one known daughter Julyann Jones who marries John Redpath in Indiana in 1837.
It seems that names in these generations were given to be deliberately hard to trace. People whose names were similar enough to obscure identity and avoid problems of removal to Indian Territory (Oklahoma) and slavery in Virginia. Keziah passed in Morgan County, she married Charles Burton, although they are not known to have had any children.
Other siblings with no known children are Leven Jones with unsourced marriage to Frances Hall, Anna Jones who marries Joseph Tyler, and Mary Jones who marries James Burton. The two Burton-Jones marriages appear to be two Burton brothers to two Jones sisters. This generation I believe to be of majority Siouan ancestry.
The series of adjustments (words my grandmother used) required of this generation to survive was no doubt great. Much pressure was surely put on these people. They were strong people as evidenced by our survival and knowledge of them. Pillahuk to Massa and her siblings for their story.
The Indiana Jones-Smith lines and their kin the Trout’s had many children and grandchildren. Massa Jones had over 30 grandkids – most named Smith. Her other siblings had similar numbers. Together the Jones family’s grandchildren numbered in the hundreds. It’s these grandchildren who would record the oral history of Massa’s generation as the last full-blood generation on the Guion Miller Roll in 1909.
Massa’s sister Tressa (1783 VA – 1848 Boone Co. IN) married Joseph Benjamin Trout and had 9 children. Her first son was named David, presumably after her father, her third son John Jones Trout, named after her brother, and to her fourth son she gave a very uncommon name Levington. Who went by ‘Levi’ Trout.
Several records and photos of Levi Trout’s family have survived. His birth is recorded 1805 in Pleasant Valley, Rockingham VA, he passed in Fall Creek Twp, Henry Co IN in 1884. He came to Ross County Ohio by the 1810s and Indiana by the 1820s. He is listed in the Indianapolis City Directory in 1875 at 69 Fletcher Ave – occupation harness maker. He was the father of ten children with Margaret Thompson.
Levi Trout’s siblings had similar numbers of children and again there are dozens of grandchildren born to him and his siblings. The woman in the second picture is Levi’s daughter Caroline. The third and fourth pictures are daughters of Levi’s brother John Jones Trout, who passed in IL, MI and IN, the fifth picture is the family of his son Joseph F Trout, and fourth pictures are His brother John Jones Trout. The last is Abraham Trout (jr) – son of Levi’s brother Abraham. The last picture is Joseph Tidrow, son of Levi’s sister Caroline Trout.
The only other photo to survive from Levi Trout’s generation is Anna Hannah Jones (1809 KY – 1875 Box Elder Co UT), neice to Massa through brother Rev John Jones. She married James Stapleton Lewis, and she and her children moved moved west to Utah and Idaho.
Judging by surnames and locations, the marriages of these two generations were to others with similar mixed roots. Although many of the people in this group have very common surnames like Smith, Jones and Miller they stand out through surnames they marry into and unique given names.
Poff is an uncommon surname listed on Rick Haithcock’s Catawba surname list. There are two Jones sister-Poff brother marriages in this generation. The other names that marry into the Jones line in these two generations are Bradburn, Byler, Miller, Barrett, and Sutton. Byler may be Beeler, the same as connect in Ted Collin’s genealogy and that are kith and kin to the Drybread’s.
The photos in these last two posts are all the known photos from the two generations after Massa. What was said to be the last fullblood Siouan generation in many accounts in 1909. There are no surviving photos of Massa’s children or grandchildren. The history of this family has been one of survival against the odds, often by the skin of our teeth.
The Civil War times of the 1860s were hard. Making peace and rebuilding afterwards even more difficult. Something we are perhaps still healing from today. This time in the 1870s was the darkest period for our Yesą̨́ ancestors. This is when society started to view them as ‘extinct’. They became invisible to many.
In 1871 the Tutelo language died with Nikonha at Grand River in Ontario. The last fullblooded speaker of the Tutelo (Yesan) langugage he was reported to be 106 years old. He was also known as Waskiteng or Mosquito. He was at the Tutelo village of Coreogonel in 1779 when General Sullivan and his company burned their village out.
In Canada many Métis people have woven sashes. They are sacred items that are part of people’s medicine bundles. The colors of the threads can tell a story. Sashes are typically gifted to someone. I was gifted a sash with many black threads. The black symbolizes to me this period in the history of the Yesą̨́ people. It is my ancestor’s story, it is my story it’s my duty to tell it so that it is not forgotten. So the story will survive another seven generations.
I’ve discovered that my 2g-grandfather Dora MCS Smith had a first marriage I was unaware of until this morning.
We knew he married Bessie Mae Gates 5 Dec 1898 and had eight children – including my great-grandmother.
What we didn’t know is he was married before that in 1896. The source is the 1894-1897 volume of Randolph County Indiana marriages. The records lists him as “Dora MC Smith” 21, residing in Snow Hill, father Joseph Smith. (Snow Hill is a small unincorporated community – next to Greensfork Twp.) The marriage is to Addie Brown, daughter of John Brown, mother’s maiden name Bond – married by ‘Bunch’ on Oct 14 1896.
Tomehawl, would you be willing to share your GedMAtch kit #? I’m M223631.
I did one-one compares with my family members. The threshold I typically use is 1cM, 500SNP. At that level there are matches – with my uncle having the largest matches. The match on chromosome 4 you also share with my mother M103622. I don’t see DNA matches to other relatives on my grandmother’s side. So the connection seems more likely to be on my Drybread grandfather’s side. (which as you can see by my surname list is the side with Bunch connections)
Comparing Kit M026223 (Craig Drybread) and M447469 (Thomas Robbins)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
Largest segment = 4.9 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 15.1 cM
I do have one other relative who has tested DNA from my Drybread side. You have a match to her as well:
Comparing Kit A303017 (Mary Tobey) and M447469 (Thomas Robbins)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
Largest segment = 5.7 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 5.7 cM
1 matching segments
Hey cuz! This is where the Cotton and Kitchen ancestors figure into my tree. The Mary Dyer in this tree is the daughter of Quaker martyr Marie Barrett Dyer. The Cotton’s and Kitchen’s came from Loudoun VA. Henry Smith Cotton passed near Bardstown KY. These lines were in Indiana by the 1830s. Mary Harrell, Henry Smith Cotton’s wife is likely of mixed descent judging by family histories of cousins I’ve connected with.
Drybread is an uncommon name. Everyone I know with that name is descended from George Drybread b.1753 Westmoreland PA. It is a literal translation of Trockenbrodt: Trocken=dry Brodt=bread. The Druckenbrod’s in PA are related as well. It’s a very German line (Bavarian). My grandfather’s dad, Carl Drybread 1893-1971 was the last generation to still speak German at home. There is a Richard Druckenbrod who was/is president of the PA German Society.
I’ll run some more compares and see if I can narrow it down some more.
I notice your mother and wife also match my cousin on the Drybread line (A303017). Where she has the 5.7cM match to you on chromosome 2 she has a 6.2cM match to your mother. She does not descend from the same Cotton-Kitchen line though (to the best of my knowledge – I don’t know the parts of her tree we don’t share). Our common ancestors are Seneca Drybread 1869-1906 and Lizzie Nay 1873-1938 (2nd cousin once removed to me.) Your wife has a different 6.9cM match to her on chromosome 15.
My mother and uncle have the same 5.2cM match to your wife on chromosome 11. Those are the only matches I see from her to my family group at normal settings.
Your mother also has a 5.7 match to M871780 – Seeker – here on SaponiTown. We strongly suspect we are cousins to her through the Harrell line I mentioned above, and have posted about in other threads.
My mother also shows a 7.4cM X chromosome match to your mother. Since X is not passed on any line with two consecutive male ancestors – this match cannot be through the Drybread line itself. It seems to point to my Drybread grandfather’s mother – Maud Marshall 1897-1919 – she is the direct descendant of the Cotton, Kitchen, Harrell lines I mentioned.