Forum Replies Created
June 27, 2020 at 3:02 am in reply to: Rogers/Rodgers Family (VA->TN->and beyond!) Nansemond? Nottoway ? GOINS and GIBSON #66228
I know this is an old thread but, Capt. Rogers was a Great man of the Meherrin that stated his sister’s family lived with the Nottoway.
At a Council held at the Council Chamber in Edenton the 27th day of October Anno Dom 1726
Whereupon by the consent of both parties It is ordered in Council That the Surveyr Genl or his Deputy do lay out unto the said Indians a certain parcell of Land lying between Maherrin River and Blackwater River Running three miles up Blackwater River and then a Straight Line to such a part of Maherrin River as shall be Two miles from the mouth thoreof and if the same line shall leave out the settlement of Capt Roger a Maherrin Indian that then the Surveyr Genl do lay out a Tract of 150 acres the most convenient to his Dwelling Which Land when Surveyed the surveyr is to make return thereof into the Sectys Office that Grants may pass for the same to the said Indians It is further Ordered by this Board that the sd Indians shall Quietly hold the sd Lands”
“………and this morning I have had a Conference with all their great Men upon the Subject of your Letter. They all in General utterly deny that they have any quarrel with the Nottoway Indians or ever Suspected them of having any hand in the Attack that was lately made upon their Nation & Capt Roger who is their Chief man says that he has no doubt of the Nottoways Friendship having his Mothers Sister and several of her Children grown up now living with these people. They lay the whole blame upon the old Occoneechy King & the Saponie Indians who as they are your Tributaries they ask Justice from you on the offenders. They had Twelve persons Killed and a Boy belonging to one of their Great Men named Robin King taken Prisoner who they [desire] may be restored to them and the like number of Sapponies as they have lost delivered to them to be put to Death,
I guess that means we are cousins. I’ve never heard of Drybread. My father’s sidw has Bunch, Cotton, and a couple othhers you list fof your grandpa. Kitchen, Cotton, Bunch, etc. Csn be found with the Tuscarora groups.
My mother’s kit is M523845 and shows NA. Been trying to figure her Na out and now she has a match with my wife’s kit, M318110, my wife is Cherokee and Cheraw
MarcSnelling;39199 wrote: I notice your mother and wife also match my cousin on the Drybread line (A303017). Where she has the 5.7cM match to you on chromosome 2 she has a 6.2cM match to your mother. She does not descend from the same Cotton-Kitchen line though (to the best of my knowledge – I don’t know the parts of her tree we don’t share). Our common ancestors are Seneca Drybread 1869-1906 and Lizzie Nay 1873-1938 (2nd cousin once removed to me.) Your wife has a different 6.9cM match to her on chromosome 15.
My mother and uncle have the same 5.2cM match to your wife on chromosome 11. Those are the only matches I see from her to my family group at normal settings.
Your mother also has a 5.7 match to M871780 – Seeker – here on SaponiTown. We strongly suspect we are cousins to her through the Harrell line I mentioned above, and have posted about in other threads.
My mother also shows a 7.4cM X chromosome match to your mother. Since X is not passed on any line with two consecutive male ancestors – this match cannot be through the Drybread line itself. It seems to point to my Drybread grandfather’s mother – Maud Marshall 1897-1919 – she is the direct descendant of the Cotton, Kitchen, Harrell lines I mentioned.
This is pretty cool. My wife is Cherokee and Cheraw and at first suspected mom to be Cherokee, but leaning harder toward the Saponi. But with a Marshal in play, it could go either way after seeing the extent of the Marshall family tree.
My Cotton on dad’s side were with the Benton, Epaphroditus and children. Our “founding father” that reorganized the Southern Band Tuscarora was a Cotton and i believe my cousin. I Have some Harrell connections too. All this in Chowan, Gates, Bertie area. There was a large group of mix Saponi and Tuscarora that migrated to Ohio and Indiana. Many of their descendants formed the Lost Creek Settlement. Is this some of your group?
The Lost Creek genealogy can be found at http://www.lost-creek.org/genealogy/surnames.php and has many cousin connections to Saponi and Tuscarora in NC.
I am related to many connections on the English side to the Pocahontus descendants but unaware of a connection by blood to her, but have suspicions. I had a group tell me I shared a segment wth them on ch 2 that was identified as Chickahominy though.
Is Drybread a Saponi name?
Oh yeah, Marilyn’s book talks about the Tuscarora taking in people from when the Pohantan confederacy broke apart. Marilyn is our tribal chair and Bear Clan Mother.
MarcSnelling;39155 wrote: Tomehawl, would you be willing to share your GedMAtch kit #? I’m M223631.
Yes, sorry it took so long. I am M447469
We have pretty good numbers for the distance.
I’m lookin to find any information on my Silvers Family. My ggg grandfather was Jesse Silvers (photo posted in my album) was born in Pulaski county KY in 1821.
I started doing research on the Silvers for my best buddy whose mother was a Silvers. She was a sweet lady who always was enamored by the likeness I shared with her brother. Their family stories were fixated upon being Blackfoot and they lived in Oklahoma in Pawnee territory where they were treated poorly by them. My research has taken me to Pulaski Co. Ky and a man named John Jordon Silvers born 1815 in Pulaski whose father was a Hugh Silvers born Rowan Co. NC 1778 married to Elizabeth Davis. Now I still have to confirm this with more documentation but it seems to be correct at this time. I have not come across a Jesse but I have no siblings or cousins discovered yet.
I appreciate Linda, the administrators, and everyone else who have come here to share and commune with each other without prejudice and judgement. There are so many people that are searching for the connection to the culture and family that they love and may have lost due to the encroachment of people who became the authors of “manifest destiny”. I am a child of several tribes who barely survived, even if they are considered extinct as a tribe by the US government.
I relish the thought of being part of a tribe and I have had my fare share of wannabe nay-sayers, which has been discouraging at best. Several of them were members of the Dallas Indian Church where I was an associate pastor for five years and even in the mission outreach effort I have been a part of in the past. I could not blame them though because of my mix, I’m sure I look like the many people who have tried to steal from them. After they got to know me, I became one of them because I did not want what they had but was there to help them be who they are, and most of them were Choctaw.
For the record, I have applied to one of the tribes. Both my grandparents on my father’s side may be descended from them due to circumstantial evidences but that is for the tribe to decide. I have cousins on many of the reservations from the east coast to Oklahoma.
Its has to be more that coincidental that this family of mine from Brunswick VA ended up in Chickasaw territory in N. Mississippi and N. Alabama and some of their ancestors claimed to be Chickasaw.
Copied from Saponi timeline: 1721 Chickasaw Indians from N. Mississippi visited the fort in Oct 1721
The oldest son to Thomas and Oholabamah was born at Haw River, Orange County. His children were born around Hillsborough, Orange County, NC.
Dreaminghawk;36831 wrote: Welcome, I descend from Daniel Meadows of the Flat River/ Haw River area of old Orange co (current Durham &Person co) and have extensive info on the Meadows family. What is your exact connection?
I’ve got two connections to the Meadows.
My 5th great grand aunt Eleanor Shearmon/Sherman married James Meadows and had a son Daniel I think in Granville.
My 7th great grandmother was Zilpha Sarah Meadows/Meador who married Thomas Huntley Sr. Her parents were Jason Meadows and Sarah Stone both from Virginia and both died in Anson, NC.
Their son Thomas Jr. married Jane Cook or Alsobrook
Their daughter Sary married John Ashcraft, son of Oholabamah. Sary is supposed to be from a tribe but not sure. Her sister is an Marth OhKoWeKi who married an Armstrong.
All these families trickled through Orange Co. NC I believe and ended up in Anson Co. From there my line moved to Chickasaw territory before the removal.
I guess dates would help. Zilpha Meadows was born 1742 in Virginia.
[QUOTE=Dreaminghawk;36850]Do you have your James Meadows as son of Daniel Meadows and Jane Woodleif of Bristol Parish, VA? I descend from James’ brother, Daniel.
BINGO! James Meadows born 1690 Bristol and died in Ganville 1755 then Jane Woodleif born 1690. Their son James married Eleanor Sherman/Shearman, distant aunt and uncle by marriage so you would be a cousin. I am descended from her brother Mischael Shearman/Sherman who married Mary Washington. Their sister Lucretia married John Cash, where Johnny Cash came from.
The Meadows I am descended from though, are from Essex, Virginia but ended up in Anson Co. NC and others went to Chesterfield, SC.
ThomasNovember 24, 2010 at 3:02 am in reply to: Keowee Cherokee village in Mulberry Fields (Now Wilkesboro), NC and WATERS Family #36205
Annette King;36008 wrote: Hi. I am new to the site. I am hoping that someone might be able to share a little info on something that I ran across while researching some of my possible native roots. I am looking into my WATERS side of the family and found that they lived in an area called Mulberry Fields ,NC, Keowee in Cherokee, now Wilkesboro. Specifically my ancestors were John Philip Waters who married a Cherokee woman and/or a Catawba woman. There is conflicting information as to his wives. John Philip Waters married Elisabeth Cullin/Cullom in abt 1789 and then Nancy Ellet/Elliot in 1790 in Wilkes County. The first was said to be Cherokee and the second Catawba. I am not sure which is the correct wife for my line or if they are one and the same. I know that some of the descendants filed for citizenship but it was rejected. They were also persecuted in court and found guilty of fornication by not being sufficiently removed from their Indian blood. Can anyone shed any light on the native americans that were in the area of Mulberry Fields now Wilkesboro, NC or by chance any information on my Waters line?
I posted this article a while back on the Chowanoke Descendants Community forum.
An Indian community on the YadkinRiver in the Mulberry Fields area of what is now Wilkes County lived prior tothe arrival of white settlers in the 1750’s. This community had the oraltradition of being descendants of the Chowans and the survivors of The LostColony from the eastern coast of North Carolina as well as Portugease descent.From the coastal area, the tribe joined the Catawbas and then moved up theYadkin River to the Mulberry Fields area in the foothills of the Appalachians.This was neutral territory between the Catawbas and the Cherokees. The firstwhite man to cross the Catawba River and settle in Western N.C. was WILLIAMSHERRILL in 1742, but the Yadkin area which was not as “farmable” asthe lower Catawba Valley remained isolated from white exploration until BISHOPSPANGENBERG mapped this area in 1752 and identified one white family livingthere. By the 1780s the Indian community had orchards and plantations. In thelate 1700s and early 1800s a conflict arose over land grants and the same landbeing granted more than once. The property belonging to the Indian communitywas taken and sold at the courthouse in the late 1700s. The founding family ofthe known descendants of this Chowan community are JOHN P. WATERS &ELIZABETH CULLON. The children are William P. Waters, Wesley P. Waters, WallaceWaters, Louisa Waters, Ketton and Wilburn Waters. Wilburn Waters is the famousIndian from Ashe, and Wilkes Co., NC and Washington GCo., VA, as chronicled inThe Virginia Gazette in 1820-1830s. Some family members made claims through theCherokee Land Claims process, conducted by Guion Miller in 1901-1906. Twogenerations of the family members were prosecuted under the state’santi-miscegenation laws, which prohibited American Indians marrying whites.Because settlement Indians were part of the community, they were subject ot thecivil and criminal laws of the state and counties. Direct descendents still livein the foothills of the Appalachians in Caldwell, Ashe and Wilkes Counties.
In 1843 the State of North Carolina v. WILLIAM P. WATTERS, son of JOHN WATERS,in a court held at Ashe County, convicted WILLIAM WATERS and ZILPHIA THOMPSONof fornication. WILLIAM P. WATERS, son of ELIZABETH CULLUM, who was one halfCherokee Indian by blood. and JOHN P. WATERS of Scotch (?) blood, wasprosecuted in in the state court of the State of North Carolina for marryingZILPHA THOMPSON, the mother of his children. Not being sufficiently removedfrom his Indian blood to be free from prosecution under the State lawprohibiting the marriage of Indians and Whites, WILLIAM WATERS was found guiltyand fined him a good sum and was ordered to leave the State of North Carolina.It was proven in court that William P. Waters was of Cherokee Indian blood. Hiswife, ZILPHA, was one-sixteenth Cherokee blood through her line of descent fromNED SIZEMORE, a full-blood Cherokee Indian.
Waters and Thompson appealed their case to the North Carolina Supreme Courtclaiming that they had lawfully married and that some evidence supportingWaters’ contention of “being descended from Portugese and not Negro orIndian ancestors” had been wrongfully disallowed. Water’s racialcomposition was the pressing issue for the high court. If Waters werePortugese, then his marriage to Zilphia Thompson was legal and hence theconvictions would be overturned. The North Carolina Supreme Court reviewed thetestimony of the trial witnesses. ISSAC TINSLEY, a witness for the State,stated that he knew Waters’ grandparents and that they were “coal blackNegroes.” Defense witnesses contradicted Tinsley’s testimony assertingthat Waters’ grandmother, MARY WOOTEN, was “not as black as some Negroesand had thin lips.” Other defense witnesses testified that they knewWaters’ parents. His mother, ELIZABETH CULLOM, was described as a “brightmulatto with coarse straight hair” and his father as a “white man butof a dark complexion for a white man.” From this testimony the high courtconcluded that further evidence as to Waters’ racial composition would notchange the fact that in North Carolina Waters had sufficient black ancestry tobe defined as a person of color. The high court declared: “But admit thatthe defendants (sic) grandfather was white, and the grand-mother only halfAfrican – of which there is no evidence, still the defendant would have beenwithin the degree prohibited fr om contracting marriage with a white woman. Wesay, prohibited degree because although the act which annuls marriages betweenthe two races, uses the words “persons of color” generally we are ofopinion, that expression must be construed to other disabilities imposed , forpersons of a similar nature upon persons of mixed blood.” Unfortunatelyfor WATERS and THOMPSON, their cover of closeness of color argument provedinsufficient to protect them from state punishment.
In the court documents where the child of theirs was being tried forfornication it is claimed again that she was Cherokee