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March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #1427
I’ve just spent the afternoon sprucing up the original source document section I have on my http://www.greattradingpath.com site. I also revised/improved the page I wrote summarizing the history of the massacre at Occoneechee Island that defeated the Saponi tribes of the VA/NC Piedmont. The article is at:
http://www.greattradingpath.com/native-american-indian-history/index.htm
It’s also got a permanent link on the main page of this site, if you want to refer to it later.
I’d appreciate some input. And yes, I typed those hundreds of pages of documentation last year, a lot of it in a gig I did for William and Mary, some just to fill out the record. It’s kind of been sitting there unindex by the engines and I’m trying to improve its visibility. If anybody has any kind of site they can put a link to these pages on, it would be appreciated.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14023Linda,
I just read the intro page. I read all of “American State Papers, Indian Affairs, part 1” and all throughout that, when government officials went to a tribe and accused them of some “mischief” — that tribe always claimed a neighboring tribe was responsible.
I will look at the rest when I get time. You put a lot of work into this project.
vance
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14026Linda,
That is most excellent! You’ve done a fantastic job. I’m going to look at it again later when I get home. I still haven’t looked at your entire site and am looking very foreward to it. Thank you for posting this.:cool: Love & Light, Lynella.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14068Linda;
I visited your site tonight and started reading. Unfortunately Its very late and I wont get finished tonight. However, it is a great piece of work! I am looking forward to reading the articles; I will probably print them off for my notebook. Thank you for your hard work! 😀
Kerry
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14074Linda, you have done a lot opf work. Here you transcribed the following —
This board taking into their serious consideration y’e great dan-
gers our neighbouring Indians (whom by Articles of Peace wee are obligdged to defend), are daily exposed to, by y’e incursions of y’e Seneca Indians, and endeavouring to find some expedient for y’e future to defend them from their violence, doe conclude it absolutely necessary, for y’e preservation of our Indinas, that ether Rappa: & Nazattico Indians be united & incorporated (y’e Nanzatiticos being willing) or that y’e Rappa: Indians remove to their new fort, and that this may be effected, It is ordered that both y’e said Indian nations be made sensible of y’e care of this board for their defence, and likewise friendly admonished, that an union will produce y’e better effects, and that y’e Indians may be safe on their way (if they consent thereto) a party of horse is ordered to be in motion, and to conduct y’e Rappa: to such place for security, as they make choice of, either to their new fort, or y’e Nanzattico Town.
reply —
Where is “Nanzattico Town”? Also who are the “Rappa” Indians? It is my understanding that over 100 years later there were a portion of the Melungeon’s that were known as “Ramps” and where they lived was called “Ramp town”. It is obvious fom the above that the Rapa and Nanzattico Indians were what would have been called “friendly Indians” by this time. Could these “Ramps” have been mixed blood descendants of these “Rapa”?
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Other comments.
I noticed the Seneca were blamed for some atrocities. Is this cooberated independently? Local Indians may well have said “they did it” pointing the finger at some tribe far away.
It also mentions the Appomattox Indians. What became of them? Were they Siouan or Algonquin? After reading a lot about Indians of Virginia, I can’t help but think that some of the “Nations” are actually nothing but cities, with many of these cities actually belonging to larger confederations or unions of many “city-states”.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14089deleted
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14091Thanks Crystal,
I have been reading so much sometimes I can’t figure out what exactly it is that I am reading. 🙂 Without a map infront of me, and not being a native Virginian, talk of this river or that one, this mountain or that town or county, well it has me feeling a bit at a loss. 🙁
Could Fort Wood be the fort that it says they might build for the Rapa Indians?
Also interesting is that you mention the Indians had copper mines. One report said that they thought the word “Monacan” meant “digger” in one of the local Algonquin languages, I believe.
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I was reading this section above (read about half of it) and it mentions the “Doag” Indians. I bet this is the same as the Mandaog. It sounds as tho the Virginians were told that the Five Nations had raided them and some of them were taken prisoner (six of them). Later they discover it is Doag Indians, not Iriquois. Have I read that correctly, Linda? So maybe MONacans and MANdoag have a similar root.
vance
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14092You did a great job Linda! I haven’t read all of it yet but I plan to go back and read it again later.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14128Vance, the Rappa: word is an abbreviation for Rappahanock. They are being urged to join forces with the Nansiatico (Nanzantico) likely because the Council is trying to figure out something to do with the Nansiatico, since they neglected them earlier, before all their lands were lost to encroaching whites, and rum traders got ahold of them. I wrote about them last year.
It’s probably not hard to imagine why the Rappahanock didn’t go through with it. They knew the Nansiatico were on very thin ice and didn’t want to be associated with them. I’ll quote that old post here, about how the children of the Nansiatico were taken from them and indentured to the men on the Council, while they, the adults of the tribe, were shipped off to slavery in Barbados.
Nansiatico? Never heard of them? Neither had I. I’ve been perusing the “Executive Journal of the Colonial Council in VA.” The first entry I read was in Volume III about this tribe I’d never heard of. I was going to skip it since I was thinking it couldn’t be too important.
Wrong! It’s the perfect first entry. It’s about 13 little children , ALL the remaining children of their tribe, under the age of 12, who are being indentured to the men sitting on the Virginia Colonial Council because everyone in their tribe older than they are, are about to be transported. Simon – 10, Little Jack – 6, Betty – 10, Little Betty – 9, Jack – 6, Charles – 5, Nanny – 10, Molly – 11, Little Nanny – 3, Kate -1, Ben – 18 mos., Lizzy – 12 mos.
I went back to Vol II for the backstory. There’s an entry about their tribe, the Nansiatico, getting caught in a plot a few years earlier that was felt detrimental to British interests. They were let off for that. Then a few years later two white landowners push them off their land. Nothing was done. Then there’s a complaint that some trader’s selling them too much liquor. Nothing’s done about that. Then a white man gets murdered by someone in the tribe. They all get carted down to Williamsburg. A letter is sent by the white people in their county, asking that they be transported. (Read: sold into slavery in the West Indies.)
Then there’s a request that they be given their clothes before they’re transported. It’s granted. Then there are entries about a huge convoy going to Britain and anybody going to the West Indies must leave before mid-July, 1705. No more mention of the Nansiotico.
BUT, this story looms large in all the dealings from there on out with the tribes. You can see the government influenced by it, cracking down on rum traders and encroachers, and the tribes very influenced, ever mindful that if they go too far, they too will literally be history.
It’s also very apparent that in the period between the Massacre of the Occaneechi, 1670s, and the 1720s, when peace is finally made with the Seneca, that the Eastern Siouan were very much being ripped to shreds by the Seneca. Not because of what’s said, but because of what’s NOT said. They were out in western Virginia, away from the English. There is scarcely any mention of them in Vol. II. 1699-1705. It’s not till Vol. III that they show up in Brunswick, in small numbers. They and the Iroquoian tribes are constantly tagging each other. Obviosly an UGLY feud. Four get killed here, three there. Finally the GOV steps in and says, okay, next tribe who takes another swipe is transported.
End of feud. Everybody remembered the Nansiotico. Without their example, it might have been our Ancestors who ended up in Barbados. Very important tribe. Remember them. Nansiotico.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=585&highlight=nansiatico
Crystal, yes, there were many riches to the west of Occoneechee Island, and Bacon, who’d dabbled in Indian trading himself, was WELL aware of how much could be gained by getting them out of the way. It was only a few years earlier that Needham was murdered by an Occoneechee because he had the nerve to attempt to trade directly with the Cherokee, right in front of the Occoneechee man who later killed him.
Then Arthur, the illiterate English bondsman with Needham, was whisked away by the Cherokee (some say Yuchi) leadership and hauled all throughout the south, and I mean the entire South, down to Florida, to keep him out of the hands of other tribal members who would have wanted him silenced. Big decisions, big debates were underway by our neighbors on what to do about the ‘Siouan question.’ In the end, it was decided by all round that we were to go down (hence Arthur was delivered safe and sound to the Colonials to tell his tale about the death of Needham). Those west of us needed to get the best possible price for their furs, if they were to get enough guns to survive themselves. Talk about a road warrior world. And remember, it wasn’t like that till the Europeans arrived and upset the balance of power everwhere with their weapons trade.
It’s very interesting to me that the tribes on the east coast who survived the best were those with the strongest female influence. Our Siouan tribes were very warrior-centered. To warriors, the only choice is to try to gain as much wealth and power as possible to avoid destruction. Female thinking will see other possibilities, like the time the Pamunkey queen asked the British to come take some of her land. In doing so, she surrounded her little band with English settlers, who inadvertently gave protection to her people from raiders like the Seneca. For the Seneca’s part, I think they won the Mourning Wars because their women were so good at adopting captives. They loved them to death. It had to be a powerful influence to demoralize enemies. Good lesson for history, if you’re going to lose a war, put women in charge, who are better adapted for surviving humiliation. Besides, if you’re a female war captive and you know you’re going someplace where women elect the leaders, you may not resist your captivity quite so vehemently.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14133What hideous and intensly inhuman chaos for people to endure. Children, mother’s of children, father’s who are family men, such barberous denial of human life, rights of being human, how could any human be so decietful to any other human? Linda, you are GOOD! Are you a teacher? Cause’ if you’re not, you could be a very, very good one. Thank you very much. I love reading you.;) Lynella.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14137Thanks for the compliment, but I actually do better writing things like this than I would telling them. I don’t recall details on my feet nearly as well. Sometimes I do okay, but on the whole I think writing is more my medium.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14141Linda, thanks for that explanation.
I wonder if the Siouian peoples were getting “tagged” from both sides — settlers and Seneca. Did you read the small bit I found on a half-breed “Captain Dickson” on the history thread? Airy Dixon said Dickson and Dixon were the same surname. He also said Dixon was a Saponi surname, but never elaborated on how he discovered it, to the best of my knowledge.
That article I found didn’t mention what tribe “Captain Dickson” belonged to. I tried google searches to find anything else there might be about this “Captain Dickson” and didn’t find anything pertaining to this man, although others were called “Captain Dickson”, they were not called a “half-breed” who killed some Whites and then fled into the wilderness, as this man did.
vance
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14148When reading it I was wondering if “Nansiatico” and “Nansemond” were related or similar. Is there any evidence for this? Also do you think the “Rappa” hannock tribe and the branch of the Melungeons called “Ramps” might have a similar origin?
vance
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14169I kind of think Nansiatico were not related to Nansemond. If they were, I would think the Nansemond would have taken them in and helped them avoid their fate.
I’ve never heard any conjecture about the Rappahanock and the Ramps. My sense of it is that the Rappahanock merged with some others. I need to ask some friends if there are still some Rappahanock around the Virginia tidewater.
March 9, 2005 at 10:25 pm #14172Linda,
Yes, writing is definately your medium! I hope that somewhere in your life you are getting paid for it once in a while, because you should be. You truly are an excellent writer. I know there is a lot of payment in just being recognized for what you write, but sometimes $$$$ are really a great morale booster! I need to do more paying jobs again! SOP! I love this subject, so I’ll get off the telephone and come back to this so I can ask some questions too! Lynella.
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