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Howdy folks. Don’t mean to re-hash old stuff, but this was posted on the forum a few years ago. I have searched the internet up one side and back down the other, and I just can’t find a primary source referring to William’s wife as Indian.
William Thacker
b abt 1710-1720
d 1761 in VA
m (unknown Cherokee)
b unknown
d unknown
I’ve e-mailed a few folks who have put this on their family tree at ancestry, the ones that replied said they got it from someone else. Any one know if this is written somewhere in old documents, a book, family bible, just oral history, etc?
I recently was researching this and other associated mixed Indian families, when I organize it I’ll post some.
Thanks!
Shad
You may be looking for documentation that does not exist presently, except in their following generations’s bibles and family stories. Or, we have just not found pertinent facts that answer the questions
.
There is a tendancy among people today to think in terms of “who was” or, “was not listed on the Rolls” as of, or immediately after the 1830s removals of tribals from the east. That does not apply to us for many documented reasons.
We are engaged here in discovering the origins of people from a century earlier; their transition, and our continuation into the present. That does not mean that your “unknown Cherokee” was not a part of these earlier people. I don’t want anyone to think that I am so culturally “ecumenical”, either, but it is just a piece of Appalachian folk-speak that any “Indian” just “had to be”, “Cherokee” – ‘caus that’s the only Ind’ns that were there.. but we know that wasn’t the case. In Appalachia, “Cherokee” and “Indian” were, and are, used interchangably – just like ordering a “coke”, regardless of whatever other brand of “cola” one had in mind (it took awhile before I figured out why they tasted so different).
You found your way here, so obviously you decided otherwise.
But, absent “hard” facts there will be more than one “solution” to any question. Let’s dig out whatever facts that exist.
Bill
Thank you for clearing things up. I have been told in the past that if you can’t find primary documents proving a family relationship, then you can’t claim it. But I have recently been blessed with the discovery of more relatives who had even more old family records, letters, and the like than I have, which talk about ancestors that escaped official documentation by the government. This has helped open my eyes more to the complexities of genealogy. I’m pretty sure this William Thacker, and many more of my European ancestors, married an Indian. I don’t know whether Saponis or Powhatans lived in Louisa and Hanover counties in Virginia prior to Europeans.
I found a book about several mixed race families that left Virginia for Ohio, its called A Genealogy of the BROADY, HARRIS, NAPPER, THACKER, and TRENT families. It also includes DORTON and TYREE. Oral history had these families as being of Cherokee descent. They ended up in Jackson co, Pike co, Gallia co Ohio, and were listed on different census years as different races.
Anyways, I just spent the weekend with relatives and went to a big genealogy library nearby and killed a couple trees copying books and documents. I ended up being a bit frustrated that I couldn’t figure out for sure who William’s wife was.
Shad
Shad,
Many people have that delimma. I try my best to find primary sources, and if I can’t find a primary source as proof I seek primary sources as evidence, and try to build up a case for what I call a “preponderance of circumstantial evidence”.
There are four options to think about in researching Indian ancestry — i.] Proof “A” is Indian. ii.] Proof “A” is NOT Indian, iii.] Evidence “A” might be Indian and iv.] Evidence “A” might be other than Indian. You can substitute the word “Indian” with “Cherokee” if you like.
Shad, that is a very early date for intermarriage with the Cherokee. It is possible, but have you tried considering one of the tribes from East of the Appalachians?
Bill is 100 percent right. I am finding that it sure seems many people used “Cherokee” when they really mean “Indian” — no deception, just the way they talked. You have to try to place yourself in 19th century culture probably to understand what the people of that era were talking about.
The Cherokee Nation claims many many people who claim they are Cherokee are really from tribes that pretty much dissapeared — and they have always said this. I am thinking more and more that what they have always said might be the truth, at least for some of us and some of our ancestors. It has taken me a while to come to this coclusion.
vance
Yes, I have thought about eastern tribes as well. I have found it interesting that all other sources considered this marriage to be with a “Cherokee”. That is why I was wondering which tribes were native to Hanover and Louisa counties Virginia, as that is were they were from. I was guessing that perhaps he married a Saponi woman? I supose I’ll never know.
Grandma just calls that side of the family “Virginia Indian” and says they met the first boats. She learned this from her grandparents. She likes to joke that at Jamestown, her people met her people. But then we got Indian intermarriage going way back on several family lines, so who knows how many different tribes we have.
Shad
Shad,
That was my grandmother’s saying too. When she disagreed with my father, she always pulled out the line that my people met yours when they came here.
They also said they were Cherokee. I found a primary source document that spelled Occhaneechee Saponi as Chenokee Saponi and have wondered if many people simply mistook this for Cherokee.
Techteach
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