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Maybe some of you can enlighten me here. From what I have read and found on the internet it seems that the Tutelo is more so connected with the Cayuga’s at Six Nations more so then the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe here. As I came across a Tutelo Chief by the name of “Buck”, and there are some “Buck’s” at 6 nations. Also I came across a recording of a man with the last name Buck from 6 nations that listed his Tribe as being Cayuga-Tutelo. From that info I take it that the Buck family residing at Six Nations is most deffinatly decendants of the Tutelo.
But I am not ruling out the fact that there may also be some decendants of these Tutelo’s here. I don’t know of anyone with the last name “Buck” within our Tribe but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t any, and if I am not mistaken I am pretty sure that there was some “Buck’s” listed on our base roll. Also it seems that when the Cayuga Nation adopted the Tutelos they were still residing in New York. So when the Cayugas left New York (for what ever reason as there was more then one reason that involved differant “groups” of Cayugas and differant time periods), most fled to Canada to the Six Nations Reserve, but a significant number also fled to Ohio and eventually to “Indian Territory” or present day “Oklahoma”, also there were other groups of Cayugas that came at later times straight from New York, as well as Canada to Oklahoma. Some of those could have indeed been Tutelo.
All in all its really hard to tell as the Iroquois was known for taking in Tribes espicially after warfare when Tribes was pretty much demolished and those remaining was took in and from then on they became Iroquois, as well as other Tribes being adopted in for protection and other reasons. So it is my opinion that the Tutelo do in fact still exsist to this day but within the Cayuga Nation. Those Tutelo are no longer Tutelo but Cayuga. Now this is somewhat of an Interest to me as before this I have never even so much of heard of the word “Tutelo” much less knew anything at all about them. I know some in our Tribe who has worked on geneology for the purpose of the New York landclaims and attempting to prove our connection to that, we know the connection is obviously true because our speakers speak Cayuga, and some of the old people still alive there parents and grand parents was actually born in NY, but some feel this must be proven. Anyhow I will talk to some of them and see if any of them know anything at all about these “Tutelos”.
I moved this post here and made a new thread so it wouldn’t get lost in the pow wow thread it was.
Where did you find that recording of the Buck? I would like to hear that. I have an article here I put up a few years ago about Carrie Buck, who was sterilized in the 30’s because they mistook her Indian appearance for “mongoloid” features. Hers was the Supreme court case that paved the way for sterilizing retarded people, even though we now know she had a normal intelligence. She was from the same vicinity where the Tutelo were first found in the 1600’s. http://www.saponitown.com/eugenics-carrie-buck/eugenics-carrie-buck.htm
Are you all close to the Missouri border? I know someone from around there.
Elkriver, do you have any people on your tribal rolls who carry the surname HAWLEY or any variation? I ask because in our isolate community of Eno-Shakori mixed bloods with roots in the Nansemand nation is a branch of the Hawley family. They have family stories of being Cayuga-Tutelo and came from New York/New Jersey area many years ago.
http://www.drumhop.com/archives/SGLakes.html Linda wrote: I moved this post here and made a new thread so it wouldn’t get lost in the pow wow thread it was.
Where did you find that recording of the Buck? I would like to hear that. I have an article here I put up a few years ago about Carrie Buck, who was sterilized in the 30’s because they mistook her Indian appearance for “mongoloid” features. Hers was the Supreme court case that paved the way for sterilizing retarded people, even though we now know she had a normal intelligence. She was from the same vicinity where the Tutelo were first found in the 1600’s. http://www.saponitown.com/eugenics-carrie-buck/eugenics-carrie-buck.htm
Are you all close to the Missouri border? I know someone from around there.
also I found this: The Tutelo spirit adoption ceremony : reclothing the living in the name of the dead / transcriptions and analysis of Tutelo music [by] George Herzog. Name Speck, Frank Gouldsmith, 1881-1950. Elkriver:
Thanks for the link and thanks for your information. I have enjoyed them. My grandmother said that our folks were Sauk and Fox, although I believe that she was wrong. They came from Shawnee areas and family members in Ohio have the story that they were Shawnee (although one descendent says that his family story is a relationship to Logan). However, given that you said it was just common for tribes to adopt as they went west, Grandma and I would both be right, as I found primary source documents stating that the Sauk and Fox hid out in the hills of eastern Iowa at the time that my folks came there. So they would have mixed, especially as they spoke the same language.
Others of my folks continued west and can be found at the turn of the century on the Rosebud reservation.
Anyway, I have tried to learn in the last year. I took a student to Pine Ridge last spring and will be taking a larger group next spring to learn of the culture and help renovate housese of Lakota elders and children. I was able to learn (although I am awful) the Buffalo head dance. Then last summer, a couple of cousins and I went to the Meskwaki powwow and watched them do the dance, as well as the others. We even tried an intertribal.
Thanks for the links and your contribution.
Techteach
#8002 Tutelo Songs After Death, 1980 Restriction: A Sacred Society – Not For Public Distribution
Singer: Albert Thomas 1 CD, 78-minutes total NEW RESOURCE ONLY
From the Jacob Thomas Learning Centre CD recodings, Six Nations Reserve.
Shake the Bush: A Social Dance of the Iroquois: This dance is originally from the Tutelo Nation. The dance was adopted by the Iroquois when the Tutelos (small Sioux Nation) were adopted into the Iroquois Confederacy.
elkriver,
It is an honor to have you, who know much more than I, bring to us here this “Shake the Bush” song and dance.
I hope I speak correctly in saying; and if wrong, I hope I will be corrected, when I say that people posting here have first-hand knowledge or have traced their family stories or genealogy to the eastern Siouan peoples. For some this is handed down as being (Eastern Siouan) Blackfoot. It is documented historically that these ancestors were closely associated with the Tutelo.
There are quite a few sources in archives around the country that are not readily assessable to all of us. Here is one such list I brought up today from the Smithsonian Institute Research Information Center, SIRIC. I am Emailing them to see if there is a way to access some from afar:
elkriver, you might like seeing this thread from last winter where we placed 2 photographs of Tutelo men from the 1800’s:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3057&highlight=john+tutela
You returning this song to us gives to us exactly what we are spending our lives seeking. It is written the Saponi were a good and pleasant people. This song reflects that. I am playing it over and over and over again. Thank you so very, very much.
Here is a site with a different MP3 file of Shake The Bush Dance:
http://www.zangomusic.com/vaaranddaofe.html
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And this is another very nice dance site with photos and videos. The Haudenosaunee here give credit for the Shake The Bush Dance to the Western Sioux. Could this is a mistake or if they have it too, a tangible connection between them and the Tutelo? However, they give credit to the Tutelo for the Pigeon Dance. If this is in dispute, traveling around so as they did they could have brought it after picking it up from others. There are instructions on how to do these dances:
http://nativedance.ca/index.php/Haudenosaunee/Traditional_Dances?tp=p&bg=1&ln=e
The Pigeon Dance
Another dance that likely came to the Haudenosaunee around the same time as the Delaware Skin Dance is the Pigeon Dance (Tshawowakeha). The Tutelo people brought the dance when the Cayuga Nation adopted them. The Tutelos had come to “take shelter under the Great Tree of Peace.” This ceremonial term meant they wished to join the Haudenosaunee.
Some Cayugas and Onondagas have traced their lineage back to the Tutelos. Bob Jamieson, a former interpreter for the Six Nations Confederacy, told me about 15 years ago that he could still say one Tutelo word. When he died a few years later, the last Tutelo word at Six Nations was gone forever. The Tutelos spoke a Siouan language.
After the Six Nations came to the Grand River in 1784, the Tutelos came with them and settled at Tutelo Heights near the Mohawk Village and Brant’s Ford. The Tutelos brought their traditional dances, including the Pigeon Dance. The bird in this dance was the now extinct passenger pigeon, which used to be so numerous in North America that clouds of them used to blot out the sun when they flew up all at once.
The Pigeon Dance has commonly ended an evening of Haudenosaunee social dancing. To begin this dance, two columns of men line up, one column behind the lead singer and one behind his assistant. Both men carry a horn rattle. They begin the dance with a Gada trot step. The Pigeon Dance is different than most other Haudenosaunee social dances in which the men do all the singing. In this case, the women step between the men to dance and can sing, too, if they know the song.
In both the Pigeon Dance and Shake the Bush Dance the women are singing with the men. Does this make a statement on Tutelo Culture?
Linda wrote: I moved this post here and made a new thread so it wouldn’t get lost in the pow wow thread it was.
Where did you find that recording of the Buck? I would like to hear that. I have an article here I put up a few years ago about Carrie Buck, who was sterilized in the 30’s because they mistook her Indian appearance for “mongoloid” features. Hers was the Supreme court case that paved the way for sterilizing retarded people, even though we now know she had a normal intelligence. She was from the same vicinity where the Tutelo were first found in the 1600’s. http://www.saponitown.com/eugenics-carrie-buck/eugenics-carrie-buck.htm
Are you all close to the Missouri border? I know someone from around there.
Yes we are close to the Missiouri Border, in fact we are located in the far North Eastern corner of the State of Oklahoma. Just north of the Cherokee Nation. We share this county with 8 Tribes: Ottawa, Quapaw, Modoc, Peoria, Shawnee, Eastern Shawnee, Miami, Wyandotte, and of course Seneca-Cayuga.
FYI the link for the Shake The Bush dance here is broken it is now at this URL: http://ohwejagehka.com/songs/shakethebushdance.htm
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