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Greetings from WA:
I am trying to find my ancestry and have ended up here because of finding my great grandfather, Leonard (Toady) Collins, identified as Saponi, married to Milley Collins (4th cousin). They lived in Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas. My grandmother said her ethnic background was black dutch, which I had decided was a euphemism for she didn’t know. I am finding information recently, that leads me to think black dutch was a euphemism for something else. Leonard’s parent’s were David Collins and Juriah Day.
Does anyone have information on these people or how I can find more information?
Thanks for all input.
Welcome, Dianek. Collins is an often discussed name here. Have you tried the search feature to the right? It should turn up a lot of old posts. Brenda Collins Dillon loves talking about Collins. Also, try writing to the people at the Mahenip site, out of MO. They have Collins. Just Google Mahenip and you should find it.
Hello Black Dutch is a very common id, many of the early Va/ Nc colonials came down from the New york area ,including the Hardin and associated families ; they left areas like Bronx and others.
Bronx is an old Dutch colony, they were the first to have African slaves and many descendants of both people were all over the NE, hence the “Black Dutch”, (probably ment most had freedom) and were often well to do. Like the quatrains etc in New Orleans, FPC’s really.
The families that have a “black Dutch” id can probably all be traced back into the earliest records including those from NEw Found Land Canada, since the May Flower stopped there to replenish supplies before going to stay in Va. Tom
I spoke to a gentleman once from a reservation in Michigan, I believe it was, I forget which tribe, but he was enrolled in a recognized tribe, with a high b.q. He said that at the time of Removal his family avoided it by becoming members of a church with German roots, and called themselves Black Dutch. The church people were against Removal, akin to abolitionists, I suppose, and they aided and abetted the deception.
My cousin was told they were Black Dutch, out of the same mix I have. So, my impression is that it is a name used by Indian blooded people to avoid persecution or exclusion. ‘Black Irish’ and ‘Portugeuse’ are other ethnic claims I think were used this way.
Welcome, Di,
If you click on the “search” button, then enter “Leonard” and click “go” button – David and Juriah’s son Leonard is the 4th or 5th message thread down the results list as
“Collins/Johnson/Jones/ETC.”
posted by Cottontop on 5-30-2002.
Leonard was born in Morgan Co., Ind in my backyard and I verified nearly all of the info Cottontop has in that post a couple years ago for someone else.
Bill
thank you all for your responses
I may need some help following directions
Linda, to the right where?
Bill, where do I enter Leonard?
How do I contact Brenda? I went to her website and got lost.:(
Hi Di,
Look just above this message at the border of the last message and find “click-on buttons” entitled “Profile” “PM” “Email” “Search”
click on the “Search”.
when that screen comes up, type “Leonard” into the “search for” (oops ! don’t recall what that is actually titled as!) and click on the “go” button. Then look for that post header on the results.
Bill
Di,
After clicking on “search”, scroll down slightly and look on the lower right for an open field/block entitled “search forum” and click on that “Go” button. it’ll come up.
Bill
Hello Di:
Pertaining to the Collins family; they are a hard nut to crack. They multiplied like rabbits, named their children many of the same names over and over, and hide their true heritage.
Years ago I discovered a letter that gave a small clue that their was indeed a connection between the lines of David 1750 and my Meredith Collins 1760. In the letter it spoke of a murder that took place in Clay Co. Kentucky where a group of “Collins Cousins” were being called to testify as witnesses.It linked the sons of David 1750 and Meredith Collins first born son ,Bradley Collins.
**[To make a long story as short as I can, my Henry Howard (g
grandfather) was the illegitimate child of Amanda Collins and
Wm. S. ‘Big Bill” Howard who is written up in Fusion’s
History of Bell County (except Fusion has wrong information
on his birth date. All the census show he was not born until
1806. He was born and living on Straight Creek on one side
of Cumberland Ford (later Pineville) and Amanda lived on the
other side of Cumberland Ford where 47 Collins’ lived on
Clear Creek and Greasy Creek. These men were all within the
age to be brothers. Aaron, Henry, Sol, Levi, Isaiah, and
David. Perhaps this was your David. Apparently Abraham and
Hiram had already moved into Clay co., not too many miles
from Pineville.
One night there was a knife fight (in a waterfront town, as
my family tells it) and Big Bill was knifed and thought to be
dead. Amanda took baby Henry and fled to Clay County where
she left Henry. I have no real trace of Amanda after that.
I find Henry in the 1830 census of Abraham. He is 4-5 years
old. In the meantime, all the above mentioned Collin’ have
left Knox Co., perhaps to avoid a continuing feud with the
Howards in which the mulengeon Collins’ had no legal rights.
Then in the Archives in Frankfort Ky, Clay County film 984492
tells that the 1832 term of court several men are accused in
the death of a certain Robert Wickliff. Abraham and Hiram Collins
are among them. Also Wm. Morris, Jr., David McCullum, and
Bradley Collins. Wm, Morris requested permission and was
given to go to Indiana to get a deposition from a Kezia
Gregory. He never returned and the trial was postponed for
two or three years and I ran out of time to follow up, but
evidently it was dropped and about 1834 Abraham decides to go
to Indiana also. He settled near this Keziah Gregory in
Martin County. He eventually bought 80 acres and when my
Henry married Abraham and Christine sold him 40 acres where
Henry raised his several children. They lived there until
all of his children except the youngest son married. The
Civil war was brooding and the racial issue was brooding. In
1856 there is a very unusual document in the court there
where Abraham is trying to prove he should not be classified
negro.]**
Also Di, Your Leanard Collins has been mentioned before on this forum. I found a picture on Richard Heithcock’s website that looked enough like my gr gr grandpa John W. Collins to be his twin. The two pictures should be somewhere on the forum unless they were lost when the forum was changed . If they were I still have the pics on my computer and can resend them to Linda.
Finding the documentation of the Collins in Clay Co. and the look alike Collins is all I really have to connect the two lines. I have searched for over 30 years looking for Meredith’s parentage without any luck. I do believe they do somehow all go back to Old Thomas Collins of Flatt River. David 1750 was supposely the son of John of Bertie Co. but the dates don’t make since to me. John Collins of Bertie Co. left a will dated 27 dec 1749 and probated 18 March 1752 in Bertie Co., North Carolina , in which he left a son David Collins a bible. How could he mention giving a bible to a son who wasn’t born til after the will was written. Second ; David Collins 1750 was supposely born in Grayson Co. Virginia ….not Bertie Co.NC. Perhaps you have some answers to these questions.
I do find it interesting that both of our Collins branches ended up in Washington State. My family settled in Lewis County, Wa.
Brenda
Glad to make your acquaintence, Brenda.
Thank you for all the details. I have been searching through the census’ and have found a lot of Collins and Oaks around OK and TX where the rest of my family is- but just names and ages aren’t enough anymore- I want to “know” them. I spent most of my life wondering where I came from and no one else in my family seems very interested. (Except for one distant cousin, Col. Marvin Oaks, and now I have lost touch with him.) John Milton Oaks married my great grandmother, Emily Collins and he sent me quite a bit of information on the Oaks, but almost nothing on the Collins. I have gotten progressively interested over the years and have spent the last 6 months trying to find out who and where my heritage is, to the point of being almost obsessed with it the last year.
I am relatively new to this geneology stuff and don’t like to ask too many questions, so I appreciate any help you are willing to offer.
If you are interested, I do have the names of some of Leonard and Milley Collin’s descendants (me being one).
As far as Collins descendents in WA, as far as I know, only my sister and I are up here. The rest are all around Dallas and Durant, OK.
Thanks again.:D
Where did you see your Leonard Collins identified as Saponi? Was anything said in your family about that line being Indian?
Di……
In the year 1902 a group of people from the mountains of West Virginia and Kentucky migerated west to Lewis County, Wa. In 1905 more relatives to the earlier bunch joined them. Armour Lawson Godfrey was married to Louisa Collins granddaughter of Meredith Collins. Armour and Lousia were both born in McDowell Co. WV/formerly Tazewell Co. Va. Armour was the son of Capt Thomas Godfrey (Civil War) who was the son of Absolum Godfrey and grandson of Thomas Godfrey who married the widow LUSK. My mother was adopted when she was only 2 days old and Armour and Lousia Godfrey were her adopted grandparents.
Another family that went west with the Godfrey’s were the Spencers. They met up with the Godfrey’s and had something in common….moonshine. Between the two families there was a total of 26 children, mostly married and traveling with their families so you will find many families in Lewis co. Wa with ties to West Virginia and Kentucky.
When Mt. St. Helen’s ruptured the old man of the mountain that wouldn’t leave his home…( Harry Truman) he was a descendant of Meredith Collins through his son Archibald. Archibald settled with his wife Margaret Coats/Coots on Collins Creek (Roan Co. WV) where he was a tanner of hides and a boot maker.
My Collins were olive complected with dark hair and eyes. Most are good hunters and thrive in the out of doors. Diabetis and arthritis runs rapid in the line. My grandparents had 11 children and 9 were diabetic. I have read that there is a large percentage of native americans with a sugar problem and yes, I am one of them. If I could have one wish to go back in time and talk with an ancester of my chooice it would be Meredith Collins. I would have so many questions to ask.
Linda-
at least 2 entries in the Ancestry World Tree Project identified Leonard as Saponi/Cherokee. That is what got me started looking up Saponi. In some round about way that I don’t remember now, I ended up at a Melungeon site. What I read sounded so familiar, it was almost unreal. The only ethnicity my grandmother ever identied herself as to me was Black Dutch. But the description in the Melungeon site not only mentioned the term Black Dutch, it described my dad to a tee. He was big and dark, blue-black wavy hair and BLUE eyes. People looking at pictures of him (and my grandmother) have suggested possibly Portuguese or African American ancestry. My dad was very strikingly handsome. My grandmother sounded African-American.
I have ordered a couple of books form the UW library on the subject- one of them I think you recommended.
Please keep talking.
I’d like to see those entries in the Ancestry world tree. Isn’t that component free? If you posted a link, would we be able to access it?
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