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A few months back I (M223631) met a cousin through 23andMe, Christopher Hamilton (M494106). We match on a 13.2cM segment of chromosome 9. Christopher also has Blackfoot oral history in his family through his father’s maternal line. Comparing our trees we could not find a common ancestor. My best guess is it is through my Nathan Coppock-Zillah Bayley line. Zilla Bayley’s people came to Indiana from Eastern WV, where Christopher still lives. So we started looking for people to triangulate against.
Christopher introduced me to Anna Chan (M269578) who matches both of us on 23andMe, but on different segments. Anna’s largest match to me is 6cM. After speaking with Anna and looking at her tree it was clear we shared Quaker origins. The families of our ancestors attended some of the same meetings in NC and IN. Many of the place and meeting names in Indiana came from NC – Randolph County NC vs IN. New Garden Monthly Meeting, Back Creek, etc. Still we could not find a specific shared ancestor.
In order to triangulate further I picked two people who match Christopher and I – Sally (A173719) and Kay (M052910). To triangulate with Anna, I picked TechTeach’s mother, Vera (A231339) as her oral history is so similar to both of ours, Anna chose Wendy (A751775). What I didn’t realize at first is that it was the same Wendy I had met months earlier through the Saponi United group on Facebook and who had posted here as Wendy.
My method was to do one-one Gedmatch comparisons of all seven people to each other. I dropped the minimum match to 3cM 300 SNP to get a total of matching segments and to compare against larger IBD matches. Here is what I found:
Kay is more closely related to all of us than anyone else.
Total match of segments over 3cM was 58.5cM to Sally, 39.7cM to me, 34.5cM to Wendy, 31.4cM to Anna, 30cM to Vera, and 13.6cM to Christopher.
The two people we chose to triangulate each of our relationships have more DNA in common with each other than any of us.
Wendy and Vera share 64.5cM of segments over 3cM, Kay and Sally match on 58.5cM.
Smaller IBS matches that you find at a >3cM 300 SNP threshold are not necessarily conclusive. So I looked at their size and relation to other matches to gauge whether they are likely IBS or smaller pieces of bigger IBD (>7cM 700 SNP) matches shared by others. In my estimation several of these smaller matches are actually IBD because they overlap or are adjacent to bigger matches, and they match more than two people.
Wendy matches Anna on a 14.8 cM 928 SNP segment of chromosome 1. Kay also matches on a 3.7cM 384 SNP overlapping segment.
Sally matches me on a 16.9cM 1582 SNP segment of chromosome 9. Christopher also matches Sally on an overlapping 13.3 cM 1299 SNP segment.
Kay and I share a 10.4cM 647 SNP match on chromosome 18, Sally has an adjacent 4.5 cM 303 SNP match to Kay.
Kay and Sally share a 6.1cM 855 SNP match on chromosome 1, I also match on an overlapping 3.3 cM 338 SNP segment.
Looking at the smaller matches there are small segments shared by more than two people. There are multiple examples, here is one of them:
Vera and Kay share 9 matches over 3cM, 300 SNP. At least three of those are adjacent/overlap with other small matches. On chromosome 3 they also match Anna, on chromosome 5 they also match Wendy, and on chromosome 6 they also match me.
If you look at Vera’s matches above 7cM 700 SNP with everybody nothing shows up. When you lower it to 3cM 300 SNP several matches show up. Specifically with Wendy eighteen small matches show up. These small matches (largest 4.4cM 918 SNP) do not show up between everyone. For instance Chris only has large (> 10cM) matches with others and no smaller matches. This, and the fact that smaller matches are shared by more than two people, suggests to me that it is more than small IBS matches at work here.
Wendy and Vera’s match on chromosome 1 also overlaps a match to Anna.
Three matches between Wendy and Vera on chromosome 3, 5 and 9 also match Kay.
Some of the conclusions I draw from this:
We are all related. (more recently than Adam and Eve 😉
Kay is the best person to triangulate as she seems to have the most DNA that we share. Looking at her direct maternal and paternal lines could be a clue.
Christopher, Sally and I share a specific recent common ancestor. (likely within the past 300 years)
Sorry, I have not been here lately. The end of the semester and our FL vacation, and then the beginning of the new semester caught up with me. I am embarrassed and will be back again daily.
Mom (Vera Carpenter) has lines that are rumored to be Native coming out of PA and MD/WV. The surnames are: Mount, Sinkey, Ralston, Huston, McLane in PA. McLane is my Blackfoot ancestor. In MD/WV, Mom has Green, Butt (connected to Shawnee). The Potters also allegedly come from near Baltimore and connects with a Davis line from Queenstown. This line is supposed to be mixed; a friend of mine from OH says that you always know a Potter by their dark skin and hair as my gggrandmother, Mary Lovina Potter, had (She did, though, have a half-uncle who seems to have no hint of NA ancestry.). I also believe that Mom has NA coming from NY in the Deuel line who came from Iroquois areas.
However, Mom also has lines from VA that have no rumors of NA. They were wealthy, slave-owning people who were prone to lying about royal English and Scottish ancestry, although if you believe the little green leaves on Ancestry (and most have proven true for me when I double-check.), these family lines eventually connect to G. Washington and T. Jefferson. Mom and I are also definitely descended from a Huguenot who was from MD and is the ancestor of such people as Barak Obama, Warren Buffet, Robert Duval, and Dick Cheney. Some of the DNA with folks here on this forum might be matching these lines. Surnames here: Wright, Gordon, Walker, Schollars, Talbot, Chiles, Morton. The lines converge in northern KY and eventually western KY.
My Blackfoot ancestor here has always been outside the areas described by most people here, i.e. VA, although I do not know where Nancy Agnes McLane’s people came from originally. While she is a dead end, she was from Beaver County, PA.
Cindy
In my Genome Mate I have also added all my matches over 2.0cM 200SNP to archaic samples. This is about 100 matches total to all the samples GedMatch has. There are 6 to Clovis Anzick, about 60 to Germanic samples (Hungary, Luxmbourg), about a dozen each to Russian and Siberia samples, and two to a 3700 Swedish sample.
The match I have with Anna on chromosme 6 corresponds to f999937 a 7200 year old Hungarian sample.
I share a segment on chromsome 2 in common with your mother, and Anna. No archaic matches triangulate withe this segment though.
That would probably be the Potters. That line is my latest research. The line goes back to the Mayflower through marriage to the Deuel line. The story of the family is found here in the introduction of a poetry book written by my 4th great (I think) uncle. I keep finding Potters and Deuels intermarrying all throughout the Deuel line, so I suspect that William Potter who died in Baltimore, MD may have been connected to those Potters somehow also. They are in Rhode Island, just outside New York City, near Saratoga, NY, and in Ohio next to William Potter. Many of them move to Jackson and Jones County, Iowa.
I am trying to prove Mayflower Society through this line. Boy, is that some tough genealogy they demand. I have to try to prove that I cannot find their definition of primary documents before I can use census records. My final sticking point generation is that of my great-great grandmother, Mary Lovina Potter, whose image is on this forum. I think that there was some kind of estrangement with her family. My great-aunt says she was not allowed to visit her family, and unfortunately, she is not mentioned in her mother’s will. She is, however, consistently listed with her family in several census records, one of which says “at home.” Their sticking point is that none of these census records are ones that say “daughter of.”
Cindy
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