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First of all I’d like to make it known to everyone on this board that I am in no way trying to disrespect or belittle anyone here. Personally I am not a full-blood myself and I don’t really try to make it my business to define who is Indian and who is not. Although I do believe that a person cannot be Indian if they have “NO” blood at all, it is not my place to dictate where a line is to be drawn!
There are so many aspects to this Indian Caste system and in one way shape or form, whether full-blood or not, anyone can become subjected to it. If it’s not about blood-quantum it’s about where you were raised, or how white you talk, maybe it’s about whether you’re a fluent speaker or not, and the list goes on………..
Linda! Personally I think that other thread did get a little out of hand and wasn’t really going anywhere! When you have so much anger in the mix, people get misunderstood, things are said that shouldn’t have been, and then it turns into an outright mess. I apologize to all for losing my cool and blowing up the way I did!
My anger came from what I perceived at the time to be an attack on my tribe. I do realize that no-one really meant any offense. However, there were a lot of questions raised on that thread that I do feel a need to answer.
So for anyone reading this thread, my purpose is to offer you all some insight into my tribes history. Just some friendly discussion, that’s all!
Thanks for your apology. We’d be interested in anything you can share. I know I’ve read that there’s more than likely some Saponi blood, considering that the last known mention of one band was in that vicinity. Have you heard anything about that?
I’m related by marriage to a Revels who came up from Robeson County, NC all the way to Vernon County, WI in the 1850’s. The other Indian blooded people there that there’s definite info about were from Granville County, NC. All of whom were part of a mysterious group of Indian people who migrated out there just before the civil war. And there’s some indication my Keasey name may be a variant of Kersey, so I’m always interested in more info in the Lumbee direction and what it may reveal about my allegedly extinct Ancestors. That adjective (“extinct”) has been annoying those Ancestors for some time, it seems. I would say they find it oxymoronic.
Please understand that I have never claimed that all Lumbees are full-bloods! And I admit that it is “possible” that non of us are! These things were only documented to a certain extent and then the trail ends, the only thing that can be relied on then is oral tradition, which often disappears in a generation or two!
I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say this, and I am not implying in anyway that it makes us better than anyone else. But in my eyes it is truth and I feel that this needs to be said!
Although there were some non-native people absorbed into our tribe two or three hundred years ago, I see no reason for my ancestors to identify as anything but Indian and I don’t think it’s appropriate to designate them as being mixed blood. The minute amounts of blood that were absorbed here and there in some families is not enough to consider any of them as anything other than Indian. When the base rolls were compiled for my tribe most people knew themselves as being nothing but Indian, what ever touches of other blood some of them may have had, by that time it was so far removed that they couldn’t even tell you if it was there or not! As far as they knew (the majority, there are exceptions), they were full-bloods!
You speak of these tribes out west as being pure when in all actuality they were no more pure than the people on our base rolls and people living today listed as full-blood according to these base rolls. Take all those so-called super Indian plains tribes like the Lakota for example! It is a well know fact that many of them often took white captives into their tribe or married their women off to white traders! In the Lakota’s case they so happened to be French! But you don’t see their base rolls listing their people as being part French! Their rolls listed them as being full-blooded Lakota, although quite a few of them weren’t exactly 100%! The point being, is that they had no affinity towards whites, none of them felt like they were whites, and half of them that were part white didn’t even know it! They weren’t anything but Lakota!
This scenario is also true when applied to African Americans! I was once told that most African Americans have some White blood in their veins somewhere down the line. But you won’t see me going up to any of them and telling them that they aren’t really pure and they should all go list themselves on a census as being mixed bloods! They would probably laugh at me! As far as they know they are only black, they’ve been persecuted and discriminated against for being black, and although you might have your occasional light skinned person who suspiciously may have some characteristics that black folks typically don’t have you don’t see anybody questioning what they really are, it’s a given! They are Black Folks, not part Black folks; just as my people are Indian folks, not part Indian folks!
When people are born and raised being something and as far as they know, that’s all they are! Then it is inappropriate to label them as being part something else! This is my point!
In regards to Eddie Hatcher looking White. It is important to note that the name Hatcher is nowhere to be found on our base rolls. Which means that Mr. Hatcher was part White, and would therefore look part White. It is no secret that a lot of Robeson county Indians have a pretty fair amount of other races mixed in with us. The point to note is that most of that mixing took place within the last 50 to 60 years! Of course there were some other bloodlines in the tribe before this time, but not enough to significantly count! If you look at Mr. Timothy Jacobs (the other Robeson county native that took part in the robesonian takeover), you will see that he looks very much like a full-blood! The reason for this is because both sides of his family go back to these base rolls! His family was not one of those who intermarried within recent years! Do you understand what I trying to say here?
In regards to your question about when we were first recognized. The state of North Carolina granted us state recognition in 1885.
In regards to your comments about the federal government not recognizing us. I respectfully have to disagree. You are right in saying that Mrs. Dole has entered what “some” would refer to as a recognition bill for the Lumbee tribe. What you need to understand is that in all actuality this is “not” a recognition bill. Technically speaking it is an “amendment” to a bill that allready “federally recognized” us in 1956. The problem was that this 1956 bill restricted us from receiving federal services from the BIA.
In all actuality lumbees are not seeking federal recognition right now, we are merely asking for an amendment that grants us the same rights and priviledges afforded to all other federally recognized tribes!
Lynne, I do know what a lot of people in this state have to say about my tribe! And that is the reason I’m on here givng these facts. A lot of the judgement placed on us by outsiders is a direct result of their lack of knowledge and understanding of our history!
In fact such ignorance is now so widespread and prevelant that there are other tribes out there who are completely misinformed about us as well! I can’t tell you how many times I have seen reservation Indians come to Robeson County and get that same old dumbfounded look when they meet that first local that often times looks more Indian than they do! This situation never seaces to amaze me, I’ve seen it play out time and time again!
In regards to your question about what the government describes Lumbees as and from what date they state we started to exist, the 1956 lumbee Act (the bill which federally recognized us) opened with the following statement:
“Whereas many Indians now living in Robeson and adjoining counties are descendants of that once large and prosperous tribe which occupied the lands along the Lumbee River at the time of the earliest white settlements in that section”
Chwe’n,
Robco, when you say that the people were recognized in 1885, you mean as Croatan, correct? I hope you are not trying to say that the people were recognized as Lumbee in 1885.
Ooneh
There are several people here that are trying to calm things down and are making great progress in doing so, please if anyone has anything to add keep it respectful!
If not take it to your private emaill accounts and off of this forum.
Originally posted by roskerah
Chwe’n,
Robco, when you say that the people were recognized in 1885, you mean as Croatan, correct?
Ooneh
That is correct! That was the first name we were officially recognized by and I am implying in no way that the “name” Lumbee was ever applied to our people before the 1950’s. My point was to show that we were recognized as a tribe prior to this.
If you read some of the other posts I made on other threads (click on my user profile and then, see all this users posts) you will see that I have stated that Croatan was the first official name we were recognized by.
My point is that we have always been a distinct and seperate Indiginous community all the way back to the time that White’s first settled here in Robeson County! This is something that we are federally recognized as being!
I have acknowledged on other threads that there has been (and continues to be) a debate as to which pre-colonial nations (i.e. Tuscarora, Cheraw, etc…) conglomorated to form us in the 1700’s and which one (s) had the strongest influence. This is something that we all know to be true. Thus far however, my objective has been to let everyone know that this is the “one and only” question that the federal government, or anyone else, have ever had about our people here!
When people are born and raised being something and as far as they know, that’s all they are! Then it is inappropriate to label them as being part something else! This is my point!
You’re absolutely right. I have a friend from WV who’s lived in Finland for years, one of the last speakers of a WV dialect of Seneca. He says every country has their area of insanity and in the States ours is about race. When you look at nearly every other population in all the world, there’s no such thing as racial purity. Every nation, every ethnicity, really, is a constant open door to admixture from here and there. Many countries have gone through extreme changes biologically, without ever relinquishing their cultural identification. (Like the English?) It’s only here in the context of Indian ethnicity that there’s an obsession with racial blood quantum.
There’s the story of one of the “tribes” of Israel, who, when the Romans drove the Jews out of Israel, fled deep into Africa. Two thousand years later, when the Jews returned to Israel, in the 60’s, these people also returned. They looked like any other sub saharan Africans. There was a good deal of debate as to whether or not they were Jews or not and should be allowed to live in Israel. Genetically, they couldn’t find much trace of Semitic blood (this was before DNA), but it was decided that since they were traditional Jews in their religious practices, they were Jews same as anybody else and they were granted Israeli citizenship.
You know I don’t get all this race crap I really don’t. I’m really sad to be honest. I’m beginnning to wonder if all the info I found out through all of this was really worth all the pain it’s causing me. During all of this fighting I had a serious breakthrough in my ancestral lines. I knew what I was told during childhood but since we never lived among a large group of natives I set out to prove it all for myself and those I love. Oh we had plenty native family around us but none had ties to any particular nations or tribes. I figured it was multiple tribes and that indeed is the case but the dominant ones are Nottoway and Tuscarora. All of this fighting has been like a slap in the face for me making me realize that except for those that are direct kin I will never be accepted by the others because I wasn’t born into an indian commmunity. All this is making be seriously think about not teling my mother and several others who desperately want to know what their roots are because it will just hurt them too. It’s all just really sad.
Linda
Originally posted by Linda
Thanks for your apology. We’d be interested in anything you can share. I know I’ve read that there’s more than likely some Saponi blood, considering that the last known mention of one band was in that vicinity. Have you heard anything about that?
I’m related by marriage to a Revels who came up from Robeson County, NC all the way to Vernon County, WI in the 1850’s. The other Indian blooded people there that there’s definite info about were from Granville County, NC. All of whom were part of a mysterious group of Indian people who migrated out there just before the civil war. And there’s some indication my Keasey name may be a variant of Kersey, so I’m always interested in more info in the Lumbee direction and what it may reveal about my allegedly extinct Ancestors. That adjective (“extinct”) has been annoying those Ancestors for some time, it seems. I would say they find it oxymoronic.
It is possible that there is some Saponi blood here, personally I have’nt seen anything indicating that any sizable amount came here, but there probably were a few stragglers in there somewhere.
From the information that I have come accross in my young life. Everything that I have ever seen indicates that we descend primarily from an admixture of a conglomoration of Catawban Siouan speaking tribes (i.e. the Cheraw, Keyauwee, Waccimaw, Pee Dee, and remnants from a few others probably including the eno’s shakori and Scavanos) and the Iriquoian speaking Tuscarora who migrated to robeson county from the Roanoke River in Bertie County throughout the 1700s!
In reference to the name kersey, I do believe that is a Tuscarora last name, I’m not really sure about Revels though!
Roskerah would be a good person to ask, as he has spent a lot more time studying the surnames in the Lumbee community than I have have.
In a way I do agree with you, but at the same time I don’t. To me such a statement is way to broad!
In my eyes knowing one’s culture (ceremonies, language, etc…) are most definately important. These things belong to us and are meant for our people to have, they make us feel whole, complete, and give us a since of pride in knowing that we are still here carrying on the ways of those who came before us!
But at the same time I think it’s in appropriate to say that a people have no identity without them! If you are born, raised, and even persecuted for being Indian and for whatever reason (usually because of factors you had no control over) you were not raised with these traditions or these things no longer exist, I do not think it is fair to say that you have no Identity. You are still Indian and that is something that you can never change!
By the way, what is your definition of culture?
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