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I was unsure of which category this should go in, so I’ll ask it here. Does anyone know if after people were dispersed from Va. and N.C. if they had much or any contact or movement amongst themselves? I’m thinking specifically the Susquehanna valley, Pa. people and the S.E. Ohio people. I have not made a documented connection to the Saponi/Tutelo people, but the names and places line up with my family names and places in these locations. There was some movement of family members in the 1800’s back and forth between these areas that is hard to understand. Some moved from Pa, to Oh. and back again after fairly short periods of time. This has puzzled me, but if there was extended family connections that I did not realize existed, it could explain it.
Also, does anyone know much about the people that didn’t go north to N.Y. and later Canada from Pa. with the Cayuga? Did they stay organized very long? Were the ones that did not go north or west already mixed into the general population by that time? If they did remain somewhat organized, or at least culturally aware and active under the radar, how long did this persist? Maybe there are folks in central Pa. today that I did not know about when I lived there? The last family member who knew much was my ggrandfather. He told most of what little I know to my Dad. Ggranpa Jake was born in 1867. Anyway, if anyone can shed some light on these topics I’d be thankful. Rick.
There’s a hundred year old article I found about the Path Valley (short for Tuscarora Path Valley) published here, http://www.tuscaroras.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&Itemid=26. From there I read “Ordeal of the Longhouse” by Daniel Richter which gave me a perspective on not only the Iroquois, but all the many tribes (mostly who had just been defeated by the Iroquois) from all over who were set up in this watershed to try and stem the tide of white encroachment.
What names/places do you have that are lining up with the Saponi/Tutelo?
Technically, it was only the Tutelo who went to Canada, though I’m a bit skeptical they were really the old Tutelo proper, or if the name Tutelo was the generic term used in Canada for the VA/NC Piedmont Siouan. The Saponi ‘disappear’ around Niagara. Interestingly, Richard Haithcock found a whole passel of classic Saponi surnames in a nearby county in the succeeding generation.
What exactly are the stories that have been passed down in your family?
Thanks for your feedback Linda. As to family stories, there is nothing that is specific that I know. My Dad, who will soon be 81, was told by his grandfather when he was a kid a few stories that are kind of fuzzy to him now. His grandfathers mother was where the Indian ancestry comes from. The main thing Dad remembers is being told,”don’t worry about it, we’re American’s now”. So how much ggrandpa Jake really knew I’m not sure. His mother, Elisabeth died when my grandmother was very young, so all the stories were what Jake knew and Grandma wouldn’t talk about it when asked. As to why the Tutelo/Saponi. I read an artical on line, I’d have to find the refrence, that said the Tutelo lived in Pa., from the Sunbury[Shamokin] area up through the Wilkes-Barre area. Specifically Catawissa, Nanticoke and Mt. Top and many stayed behind and intermarried when the rest went north with the Iroquois. Elisabeth lived her entire life in this region. Her grandmother’s maiden name was Moore, which I found listed among common Tutelo names and her father was an Ely. I found a connection to that name on this site. Also the Jennings surname is connected with this part of the family and I found that listed as a known Tutelo name. I’m using Tutelo as a generic term, as it seems to have been used that way in Pa. and with the Iroquois. My info and recent research deadends in Pa. in the late 1700’s with the Ely and Moore lines. So I don’t know, or am not sure at all of a Tutelo connection. It’s all guilt by association if you will. Also I looked down the various possible Iroquois and Lenape[Delaware] roads since they were the most populace of the people in that region. After a fairly exhaustive search with nothing turning up in those directions I’d quit looking and figured it was lost info to the past. Then I stumbled apon the Tutelo and some names, time frame and locations matched up. With my weak info though it seems that it will be just “maybe’s” though. I’m after the truth though, I don’t want to be a “wannabe” I think you termed it. As to Ohio, there is connection to the Belmont county area, near Wheeling W.V. Some family members seemed to have moved back and forth from central Pa. to this area in Ohio for no apparent reason. Assumed extended family connections. This is why I thought there might be a connection with the Tutelo. Thanks again for your reply and my best to you all.
Linda,
Theres also evidence that Catawba, or at least Catawba speakers, went up to Canada with the “Tutelo”. I’m willing to bet these were a good mix of different eastern Siouan peoples.
Yes, I went through that process of elimination. I pursued a number of different possibilities and the geiger counter got to clicking in this direction. Turn away from it, and nothing, turn back, there’s more coincidences, more coincidences, more coincidences. I mean, if there’s a story somebody’s trying hard to deny (protesting too much only lends credence), there’s got to be somebody behind it. It’s only common sense the likeliest explanation is found where the most hints lie. If all you’re looking for is your own family’s satisfaction as to the roots of the family lore, then you don’t need a legal standard. You only need what satisfies your own gut instincts. That’s as good as it gets. You don’t need to ‘prove’ anything.
Thanks for that response Linda. Very perceptive, that is exactly what I’m looking for. For me to be convinced. Documentation beyond that would just be gravy in my case. Again, good luck for all those searching for answers. This is a very helpful and interesting site. Very well done. I’m putting it all on the self for now though. Thanks again.
Rick,
My people had the same general areas, although farther west in PA. One group was in Huntingdon while the other group was in Shepherdstown, WV. I have tried to figure out how they came together in Licking County, OH. Over the years, I have found many of the same surnames in many tribes, even those that I volunteer with, the Lakota on Pine Ridge. There were Steels in PA; one of the last tribal leaders was named Steel. The simple fact is that as the tribes were driven west by the whites, they grouped together, so it is difficult, if not impossible to identify which tribe.
I have come to the conclusion that they did move around, not just because of the trails, but I also believe because of the churches that worked with many tribes. I know that two Presbyterian ministers served in the Donegal Presbytery served both areas of my folks. These same two ministers also served New Castle, Delaware, central Virginia, and northern North Carolina.
PA was home to many of the tribes moving west:
Delaware, Tutelo, Iroquois (Seneca, Cayuga, Oneida), Nanticoke, Shawnee (mine are turning out to be Shawnee and Iroquois), Conoy, and others.
Techteach
Rick, I have some family who went through PA and OH. The Sams, Faulkners, Manspeakers, and some of the Browns. This is strange because many of my family intertwine. My Woolery family came to MO right after the Revolutionary war, ca 1780. Lawrence Woolery and his wife Peggy Horn came through PA to OH and KY to MO. I am from the eldest son who went to OH and brought back a Mariah Manspeaker. My grandmas Putney family has roots back to the Sams and Faulner family in the PA and OH as they came through Iowa down to MO. I have over simplified the time frame and events but I think you get the idea.
Bob
HiL Linda,
I found that the Pennsylvania Archives (717) 783-3281
350 North Street, Harrisburg, PA 171720
email: ra-statearchives@state.pa.us has online services.
One file they have is called, Indian Related Material.
The site is extremely long. they have Carter also. Claus papers to Indian records, etc.
They list roll #’s .
Many topics. language and Tutelo and other tribes from NC.
Their Carlisle School Collection 1880-1917 is on microfilm rolls # 6333-6344, for example.
Names, histories, places -it has everything.
One thing I found interesting and i have go back over what they posted was ‘ ce-la’ . / NA phrase ?
‘Cela’ coincidentally was the name of one of the Daniel daughters. I forget-but, I think she was in
Barton Daniel’s family. I have to look it up.
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