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Folks, this is a long-shot.
My great-great-grandmother maternally was Fanny Self – probably Frances Elizabeth Self b. ca. 1824 (m. Beverly Dickenson ca. 1847). Beverly has been reported as Melungeon (see link below)
Born Russell Co., VA, she is my maternal “Cherokee” legend – supposedly placed by nuns (?) with a family to escape the Trail of Tears when she was a teenager (16).
It’s one thing that I can’t turn the corner on proving her, but I am haunted by the story that either her name or the family she was placed with were named “Taude” – that’s the way the story came to me.
I am wondering if any researchers here have any clue who these people were – I haven’t been able to locate them – or if perhaps it is not a name but a word – perhaps a Cherokee word or even Tutelo – just spelled the way one would spell it by hearing it.
Fanny and Beverly left Wise Co., VA (http://books.google.com/books?id=WfHoqUBay-UC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=beverly+dickenson&source=web&ots=2LXbk1A-92&sig=Urowgovya6Do8EtUd6qf0O8mmcY). He was supposedly CSA or imprisoned for a year and during that time, she surveyed 100 acres in Morgan Co., KY but when Beverly returned, he surveyed 100 acres in Elliot Co., KY and that’s where they lived.
Just have to ask as this is my last unexplored, currently available avenue.
Thanks so much.
Dan
If in fact your ancestor was placed with nuns to care for her, then I’m sure she wasn’t alone. Possibly this is a story that has yet to be told.
CoheeLady wrote: If in fact your ancestor was placed with nuns to care for her, then I’m sure she wasn’t alone. Possibly this is a story that has yet to be told.
Well, I think this is a story that was told … to somebody … but something got waay lost in the translation down the generations.
I’ve no hint that anyone came-down from Catholic or Anglican/Episcopal stock and have never seen much myself in any of those folks being around VA during that time period (1840) … so I have problems with “The Nuns” right off the bat but I’ve seen enough seemingly far-flung bits of info come together into something meaningful before so, remain open.
There is the hint of a brother to this Fanny Self. Not only that, a rumor that “a cousin” found “his Indian name” … but this cousin has become “unfindable” as well.
Thanks for your input CoheeLady – I think you are probably right.
Looking up your Taude name in the Federal Census, only 14 come up. Even though rare, the name seems to comes from Norway and Germany. I hope you can make this out. The dates and locations of these don’t seem to match your sources story do they?
Surname Given Name Age Sex Race Birthplace State County Location Year
Taude Albert 28 M W Mn Mt Valley Glasgow School Dist 1910
Taude Albert H 32 M W Mn Co Larimer Loveland; 27-Pct; Lovelander H 1920
Taude Andrew 54 M W Norw Mt Valley Glasgow School Dist 1910
Taude Anna T 15 W Norw Wi Trempealeau Arcadia 1880
Taude Archie D 51 M W Il Ar Ouachita 3-Wd; Camden; Ecore Fabre 1920
Taude Dora T 19 W Norw Wi Trempealeau Arcadia 1880
Taude Erick 38 M W Norw Mn Renville Ericson 1920
Taude Ferdinand 61 M W Germ Wa Clark Yacolt Pct 1910
Taude Marion 22 F W Norw Mt Valley Bainville School Dist 1910
Taude Otto 40 M W Germ Wa Clark Yacolt 1920
Taude Samuel 36 M W Il Il Cook 3-Wd Chicago 1900
Taude T 35 M W Nc Nc Mecklenburg 1-Wd Charlotte 1900
Taude Theodore E 30 M W Norw Wi Dunn Colfax 1920
Taude Thomas F 23 W Norw Wi Trempealeau Arcadia 1880
If the following person’s Father and Mother were born in SC then his grandparents had to have been there…could be near the time of your Grandmother. You don’t suppose it could be more records lost to the war do you?
1900 North Carolina Census for Meckleberg County, Charlotte Twp., Charlotte City
Taute, S was a boarder in the household of JM Hendrick (The typed record says T. but it looks like an S. to me on the handwritten copy.)
race,W Sex M, Birth Mar? 1865, age 35, Single,
Birthplace of this person NC
Bp father SC
Bp Mother SC
Occupation Clerk
Reads, Writes & Speaks English
Wachinika, thanks for your effort.
These are many years later than the “event” which family-legend says took place – which would have been around 1840. Fanny’s birthdate is generally shown as 1824 but I’ve seen 1826 & 1828 as well but all fits for 1824 – as the story goes that she was 16 when placed or taken in by that “other” family – which, if the pieces of the story fit right, would be the “Taude” family – 1840 being a very good year to save a young girl from “The Trail”.
I loosely strolled down this same avenue Wachinika – and came up with less. I’ve seen nothing to place any “Taudes” anywhere near VA/NC/TN/KY in the right time period. It’s part of the reason I brought the word up on this forum … in the event that “Taude” wasn’t a name at all … at least, not a white-man name but that, instead, it was a white-man spelling of a Native word … or a Native name.
I have a cousin who never lost touch with family that has been doing this genesearch stuff for years … and she lists Fanny as “Taude Self” … and I have no clue why but she has been close to these stories and legends all her life while I just heard them the first time nearly 4 years ago. Someplace, the answer lies waiting. Perhaps the story is backwards and she was taken in by a “Self” family and “Taude” was, indeed, her name … but that story has not checked out so well either … except that there was a “Self” household in Virginia at that time … which I thought solved part of it … but apparently did not.
Thank you again, very much.
Dan,
I’d still hang onto the thought I put forward in post #5, regardless of the possible race or nationality, maiden name or adopted name. This 35 year old Taude in Meckleberg Co in 1900 had grandparents in SC. This would be at the time she was taken in. They could have moved north after the birth of his parents in SC. This places the name in the areas the peoples on this forum traversed…giving the story something yet to hang onto. I take it you are open to her possible Indian ID perhaps being something other than only Cherokee.
Other names on this same census page are: Bard, Hecker, Hall, Collins, Collins, Shields, Wilcox, Davis, Cambell, Harrison, mostly Single male boarders of various occupations born IN, PA, NC, SC, GA. While these names are not on this Saponi list, I’ve seen some on other lists somewhere here. I keep looking for groups of people migating together.
I’m not familar with the Cherokee Language. Of the Siouan Languages I’ve looked into or studied, I’d say it would be unusual for a word to end in the “t” sound. As we see in Hochunk and Tutelo, there is often a “k” ending, other than that, it’s usually a vowel at the end of syllables. The “t” sound can be a cross between a “t & d”, sometimes spoken &/or transcribed as either. I did check the Hale Tutelo Word List & the only word endining in T is “Tat” for Dad. Names in Indian languages seem to have many syllables rather than one or two…not just a noun, but and adjective &/or verb attached to it giving it character and meaning.
You can check this thread for Saponi Name Lists. I personally see nothing there that looks close. Post #1, by Brenda has some names in Indian Languages and post #2, by Linda is alphabetical:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533
I thought the Norway/German thing might be a clue as to churches to seek out to find the women who helped her. She may have been baptised there.
I guess I believe in digging deep when it comes to family stories trying to see what terms may have been slanted…as nuns for church women etc.
Using a Soundex, Taude could verbally sound like Todd when spoken to a census taker in a southern accent.
I’ll sure keep your Taude in mind as I am doing the same sort of research on my names.
And here is a link to The Tutelo tribe and language: read before the American Philosophical Society, March 2, 1883
Principal Author: Hale, Horatio, 1817-1896. (Akin to a Dictionary) This is page 36 where the word list starts:
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/PageVie…lay=04399+0047
Originally Posted by michaeldunn
An interesting interactive site from a publisher of reprints on American Indian languages that lets you generate your own lexicons from the wordlists in various works, including some involving Tutelo/Saponi:
http://www.evolpub.com/interactiveAL…omLexicon.html
Well, thanks for indulging me again; you got me curious. The more names we find connecting to a Cherokee/Blackfoot story the more we’ll learn. Good luck again!
Sorry the ALR Interactive link wasn’t working. I’ll try again:
http://www.evolpub.com/interactiveALR/database/CustomLexicon.html
I’m still having troubles with that site – I link up okay but can’t generate a lexicon – I’ll try a couple different things. Seems I may have seen this site before. Thanks!
Wanted to respond that Yes, I am open to nearly all scenarios. The subject is my maternal gggrandmother and when I went “in depth” on her, I was pretty-much brand new at the gen stuff and also on a PC and so, what info I gathered then I might be able to outdo now … especially when put in the right direction.
For what it’s worth, I suppose I do believe the family legend that she was Native – her daughters looked it – have or had a pic of them – but it was after coming to Saponitown that I found her husband to be of Native ancestry but have not yet figured out his “affiliation”. No ancestor of mine has yet stepped forward to claim the Shawnee legend – and the Cherokee might be a misapplied title – so, Yep – wide open here.
However, I would also not be a bit surprised if she was from Sweden and all the Native goes straight through him – know what I mean? One surprise in genealogy and everything becomes suspect after that.
Thanks for your info and advice – I’ll probably have more comment after I’ve had a better chance to review and work.
Pila Huc
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