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Another timeline that mentions the Saponi several times. Also talks about the Collins and Melungeons.
http://www.jgoins.com/webtimeline.htm
Jim
Here’s another collection of documents that refers to the southeastern Indians, so-called “Croatian Indians”, Saponi, Occaneechee, Nansemond, and others.
http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/Indian.htm
Jim
All,
Here’s an interesting clip from the above article about Eastern Sioux tribe names.
“It would be very difficult to verify if a certain surname indicated descendancy from a specific nation….The eastern sioux (called by the group name “Cheraw” if you were in SC, “Tutelo” if you were north of VA, “Saponi” if you were in VA, or “Catawba” if you were in NC, but all referring to the same group of siouan speaking villages) were closely allied with the Chowan and a western band of the Nansemond (one historian has identified that the Nansemond were effectively broken in two by 1700, consisting of the more acculturated band around Norfolk, and a more traditional band called “Portuckee” that removed across the Meherrin)…even though the Siouan bands spoke a different language than the Algonquian Chowan and Nansemond, they intermarried and socialized extensively…. “
Jim
Anyone catch this in that link…
“August 1809 – Marion Dist. SC
Thomas Hagans refused to pay the levy “upon all Free Negros, Mulatoes and Mestizos,” claiming he was a white man. In October 1812 the Court ruled that he was of Portuguese descent and acquitted him.”
and this
“Thomas Ivey; on 14 Aug 1809 in Marion District SC, Thomas Hagan refused to pay the tax on “all Free Negroes, Mulattoes and Mestizos” claiming that he was a white man. Two white men, Robert Coleman and John Regan testified that they were acquantied with with Thomas Hagans grandfather, Thomas Ivey when he had been living on Drowning Creek in NC. They stated that Ivey was “of Portuguese descent, that his complexion was swarthy, his hair black and strait – that his wife Elizabeth was a free white woman, very clear complexion.” They testified that Thomas Ivey’s daughter Kesiah Ivey married Zachariah Hagan and they were the parents of Thiomas Hagan.
for an excellent website which details the early history of the eastern Siouan peoples and some of their modern day descendants in the NC/VA border refer to: http://www.ibiblio.org/dig/html look under the history portion…. PONY HILL”
and this
“1832 – Madison Co. TN
Free man of color, Richard Matthews, seeks permission to marry a white woman. Matthews says he is “of the Portuguese Blood. “
rockhound,
My personal opinion is that the “Portugese” argument was a “smokescreen”. I also don’t buy the “Carthaginian” (sp) theory for their descent either. I suppose they could have been descended from aliens too, but I doubt that also.
Jim
this site caught my eye, especially mentioning of a traditional band called portuckee. depending on who spells and pronounces it, it could be portuguese. my ancestors were portuguese, arrived 1600 before jamestown, lived in an area called dragon swamp,close to the meherrin tribe more than likely marriage took place between them.
I don’t know what to think of it. I am relatively new to researching this side of my family and the Eastern Sioux in general. Since I am from MO, I can always say “Show Me.”
steve750,
Do you have records of them being here before Jamestown? Ship manifests? Are these colonial records or Portugues records? Any proof of this would be very sought after around here. 🙂
look at it this way, first spanish fort in n.a. (florida )st. augustine mid 1500’s. had posts up and down the coast line as far north as virginia also see http://www.portuguesefoundation.org.
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