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I don’t know if cousin Tom has explored this subject here or not yet. But I thought I’d put it out here to see if any of you can help us.
One of my g or gggrandmothers was tattoed on her face. (Dont have my research papers here right now so I can’ say who it was.) My father distinctly remembers seeing her tattoos even though she tried to cover them up with make-up.
I know some tribes did tattoo. And I have heard that sometimes the Holy Women of the Cherokee were tattooed. My ggrandmother was a Holy Woman from what I understand and my grandmother wore holy symbols on her coat. Anyway, anyone have any information on tattooing? Or any good sites that you can share?
Thanks.. Barb
Barb.,
I do recall Tom bringing this up. I’m not sure where at on here you would find it though. It’s been a while back. I wish I knew something about it, to help you. I do find it highly interesting though. I’ll have to check in here once in a while to see what you come up with.;) Love & Light, Lynella.
Please don’t take any references to “Indian Spirituality” that you find online as “gospel fact”. No REAL Indian, non-Christian Spiritual Elder would ever discuss these things online.
As for Cherokee and tatoos, I never heard of it, but I guess it’s possible. Pretty much all Cherokee became Christian between 175 and 200 years ago. Even many Cherokee traditional people are Christian.
vance
I don’t take anything I read online as gospel 🙂 There are too many variations of this or that or half-truths. That is one reason I quit researching my NA roots about three or four years ago. You get a lot of crapola from the NA’s if you aren’t a pure blood. And a lot of disinterest from the other races if you are.
So until Tom emailed me a couple weeks ago I had just decided to give up on it. The main reason I was researching it was for my Father who is ill and wants to get facts hooked up with family oral traditions. I have traced my white side all the way back to 1725. But as you all know, being an Indian just before the turn of the century wasn’t a popular thing to be. Unlike cousin Tom’s side of the family, ours was pretty closed mouthed about being NA. They were ashamed of it and the only way we know anything about it is from my father’s memories of his Mother and Grandmother speaking their language. Dad could only remember one word. Tom helped us with that word and found out the the meaning for us. Personally, I get tired of the NA arrogance when we mixed bloods try to find information. That’s why I quit researching a few years ago. So, ok – rant over.
Barb
Originally posted by vance hawkins
Please don’t take any references to “Indian Spirituality” that you find online as “gospel fact”. No REAL Indian, non-Christian Spiritual Elder would ever discuss these things online.
As for Cherokee and tatoos, I never heard of it, but I guess it’s possible. Pretty much all Cherokee became Christian between 175 and 200 years ago. Even many Cherokee traditional people are Christian.
vance
Barb.,
🙂 I think too, it’s a lot of non-Indian misinterpretations with so called “facts” that we find on line and it’s just something to watch out for. You know, on-line we can’t look into their eyes and know if what they are saying is true or not. I’ll keep looking at the Cherokee stuff, too. I know there were some NA’s that had facial tat’s as well as other parts of the body, I would imagine. I’ll see what I can find. Don’t give up on us!;) Love & Light, Lynella.
Barb.,
I found Tom’s earlier post. It was Algonquin folks with the tats there. But I’ll keep looking.;) Lynella.
Thank You Lynella 🙂
I have been doing genealogy for about 15 years. But there is always something new to learn. And another place to look and another ‘cousin’ to find. 🙂
I’m glad to be here. Thank you for your kindness 🙂
Barb
Occaneechee traders were heavily tatooed. May have had nothing to do with religion, but just identity in a high cultural contact area. May have been Rank designator.
There’s a good many images out there for research that shows tattoos, check out “Southeastern Indian Life portraits” by Fundaburke, many Cherokees and ofcourse others wore tattoos.
I think that eventually in my family the tattoos were transfered to designs that ornamented the clothes, jewellery etc.
If you look back at “Tom’s Family” the lady wearing the tunic with the designs is Barbs Grandmother, the child with center seam moccasins her Aunt Lenora!
All the best, Tom
Tom,
Thanks for the reference for where to look. I’ll do it, Please feel better soon. God Bless Barb. Love & Light, Me.
Thanks for the reference Tom.
I had heard that tatooing started with the Polynesians and thought it never got to the Americas. I have never seen an Indian with a tatoo other than the same reasons whites get them — a sorta macho thing. I saw a show where they found (PBS probly) an “iceman” was found froven in the Alps and he had a couple of small tatoos, and I remember them saying that must have been a “lost art” in Europe. I think I read the Picts in Scotland into historical times, had tatoos.
Barb, I post here and tell fullbloods this is a good place for research, not a lotta fake made up history and rituals like so many places.
I don’t think fullbloods people are being “arrogant” by what they say. Please try to look at it from their perspective. Ironic, they think mixed-bloods who were not raised in the culture are being arrogant.
I was told by Cherokee registrar, “Do you have any idea howmany emails or letters or phone calls we get DAIL from people saying. “I just got m enrollemnt card, where is my Indian money? How do I get free medical benefits, et cetera.” After questioning the person a little they have to tell them, “I am sorry, but hte Cheroke tribe you joined is not us, and it is not federally recognized so we can not help you. As for the “Indian money”, there isn’t any and there never was any. I have seen full bloods LITERALLY cry and say, “why don’t they just leave us alone?” speaking of people who conduct “Cherokee Pow-wows” back East.
They have been very patient for years and recently with the fake made up Cherokee websites all over the internet they are starging to get frustrated — but it is because they are just tired of all this made up stuff that never happened.
Cherokee don’t even traditionally have pow-wows. but in recent years there is one yearly on Labor Day. So many groups have made up a history that is not true (for instance there are no lost bands of Chickamauga — not a single one — those are simply fraudulent histories and fake made up self proclaimed chiefs — but there are a great many people whose families left the Cherokee nation, who do have Cherokee blood, and want to learn about the Cherokee Culture — I am one of them. I simply chose not to belong to any of those fake made up bands, and chose to humbly befriend the enrolled Cherokee, and I have not found them arrogant at all. I am not talking of state recognized groups, but all the 200 others.
Now if I were talking to a full-blood or a federally enrolled Cherokee who was telling me they were sick of all the “arrogant fake Cherokees” I’d be telling that person something completely different, and show them where in history — documentation — Cherokee did leave the Nation and have been doing so for a long time.
So I get beaten up on from both sides . . . 🙂
vance
Vance,
🙂 It is good to see you. We haven’t gotten to chat much lately, sorry about that. Kerry is worried that he has made everyone mad on here or something. I said, “Not that I know of! Everyone just has a lot on their plates I suppose.” He gets to feeling guilty I think because his job keeps him so busy. And with our sister going to pass litterally any day now. We’ve all been stressed. I think I’ve tried to work with this a bunch more just to keep my mind off the inevitable. POS!:D Enough of that!
Vance, I am glad you posted here again. What you said, you said very well. I see you as a very commendable man, you know!;) And, I’m glad we’re related. I’m going to spend time on this tattooing today as well as Tom’s Louisiana Blackfoot and The Arrows. Love & Light Lynella.
Tom,
I’m sorry. I googled but could not find anything resembling “Southeastern Indian Life Portraits” by Fundaburke. I have a book somewhere around here with a photo of some Native Americans who did have facial tatoos. If I remember right, it was a drawing and these folks had the tats. on their faces, I’m thinking they were Iriquois or something, but, well, you know how my memory is!:D I could be wrong about the tribe. I’ll look around here and see if I can find it. I don’t recall if it really said much about why they were tatooed, but it may have and I just didn’t pay attention! Love & Light, Lynella.
Thanks — I feel that way all the time — that maybe I have offended someone. That is ot my intention. I pray I am not offending anyone. It is through irioning out problems that friendships can be forged, and new things can be learned. I can learn somehting about the historic documentaion of Indian tatooing. 🙂
I have left this site 2 or 3 times because I thought I had offended people or for some other petty reason — and a time or 2 I left for 6 months, not posting or reading this site. But eventually got over it, I quit pouting . . . and I think I am here to stay now. 🙂 I too believed all the tales I read online once, all the things I was told about my family. But I found out there are people who want converts to their “made up tribe or goup” and they are unscrupulous means, and will tell you anything — almost like a cult, and it does take deprograming to get over it, just likke a cult. So I am cautious, and stress documentation and source material when claims are made.
I am busy too and often forget who has written me and who hasn’t. My back is not in great shape and I spend a lot of time just resting it when I am not working. I don’t have as much time to respond on the internet as I’d like. Your rothers posts are informative and I hope he remains.
Tom and Barb, please know I don’t mean to be disrespectful — I think of you and your relations as friends. I am just curious and cautious about Chickamauga history, that’s all. Many things taken for granted on osme pseudo-Cherokee yahoo groups are not proven at all. I have seen so many “stories” about the Cherokee passed from website to website and when you trace the source you find nothing historic at all — nothing — simply a made up story that never happened. They all copy form one another and often the event never happened. Most are not being intentionally misleading, but a few are. I am not suggesting any wrong doing at all on yalls part, but rather I am careful and want to see the source of the material, and stress caution when saying the Cherokee did this or that. I’ll respond to anyone with this caution.
Anytime anyone says anthing about the Cherokee I read it closely and I do so for that reason. I have a yaoo group about trying to authenticate Chickamauga tales if anyone is interested. I sometimes post things found there on this site and vice versa.
vance
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