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Linda, have you seen this?
http://www.tngenweb.org/tnfirst/tribes-list.html#sisippah
It has a list of tribes native to the Souhteast. This list includes —
Blackfoot (see Sissipaha).
Sissipaha (Sissipahaw), Haw River area, North Carolina. LF: probably Siouan. Some descendants of mixed blood have been known as Blackfoot – not to be confused with the recognized Blackfeet of the U.S northern great plains and Canada, nor the unrecognized Blackfoot of Montana.
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I wonder whre they got this information? Perhaps from the Saponitown website and forum?
If they have an email address on their website I will ask them.
vance
The post the following as their sources —
(From an original list by Donald Panther-Yates, Thomas Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, and with a great many additions from Gloria Holback.)
Sources:
(GF) Foreman, Grant, Indian Removal, (Vol. 2 – The Civilization of the American Indian series) University of Oklahoma Press, 1932, 1953.
(TJ) Jefferson, Thomas, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1784, New York; M. L. & W. A. Davis, 1801
(LM) Miller, Lee, Roanoke, Solving the Mystery of the Lost Colony, Acade Publishing, New York, first American edition, 2001, ISBN: 1-55970-584-1.
(CR) Royce, Charles C., Indian Land Cessions in the United States, Powell, J. W., (director), “Eighteenth Annual Report of the Bureau of American Ethnology – 1896-‘97â€, Vol II.
(JS) Swanton, John Reed, Indian Tribes of the Lower Mississippi Valley, Bureau of American Enthology, Bulletin 43, 1909.
(JS) Swanton, John Reed, The Indian Tribes of North America, Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 145, 1953.
(JS) Swanton, John Reed, The Indians of the Southeastern United States. , Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 137, 1946.
Bio: John Reed Swanton, 1873-1958. Born Gardiner, Maine. Graduated Harvard University, 1896, received his Masters Degree the following year. Employed by the Bureau of American Ethnology where he worked as editor of the American Anthropologist and as president of American Anthropological Association. He authored many more books than what we listed above.
Vance,
Firstly, I’m pleased to make your accquaintance (hope I spelled that right). I’ve read your posts for a couple of years now, and I must say you have a gift for uncovering online gems of information.
I haven’t posted here for over two years, but when I saw you cite Gloria Holback, I couldn’t restrain myself. I know Gloria from many online and e-mail communications we exchanged several years ago. In fact, we’re distant, distant relatives through our REVELL lineage (i.e. – “James Revell the Indian,” circa 1675 of the eastern shore of Virginia and Maryland).
Anyhow, Gloria is a very good historian/genealogist and I have a lot of respect for her scholarship. Hence, I tend to believe what she writes (generally). So, all things being equal, you may rely upon the accuracy of her information (generally).
p.s.- It was kinda weird seeing my name again under a thread I started three and one half years ago entitled, “NOTTOWAY INDIAN LAND SALES,” lately revived by SAJ.
p.s.s.- I wish Tommy Tsunami had hung around for a while longer. He was an interesting fellow.
p.s.s.s- Linda, each day I read Saponitown, I say a little prayer of thanks for you and your remarkable website. My understading of who I am and the cradle of context that birthed me is in no small measure a tribute to the knowledge I’ve happily taken from your unique website. Thank you.
Thanks Coharlie Roy.
Happy to meet ya.
I got to thinkin’ about the sources listed, and thought it might be Donald Panther Yates that mentioned the Blackfoot as Sissipaha. Donald & I have emailed each other a few times, and he is a nice guy. However some of his ideas are a bit off the wall IMHO, obsessed with finding Jews that are Cherokee. That’s a bit of a mental hurdle for me.
Anyhow, I did a google search for his name and “Blackfoot & got several hits, so “Blackfoot” is an object of his research. One hit led to the following, and altho it doesn’t mention Donald, it was very interesting —
http://genforum.com/ai/messages/9376.html
someone at the above message board said —
Looking for information on Greenberry Black, said to be a Blackfoot. Married in Wayne County Missouri, Piedmont, to Mary Babb. Time around mid 1800’s.
end of quote.
I looked that up on a map. here is a town named Piedmont in Wayne County, Missouri. Wayne County is in SE Mo. Piedmont is about 30 miles north of the Arkansas border. Some of my Wayland ancestors were only about 60 miles straight south of the town of Piedmont, Mo. in Walnut Ridge, Ar.
http://genforum.com/ai/messages/9417.html
Excerpts from from one reply to that query —
. . .
However, this is a common story among people near the Ozarks [Vance’s note: he is referring to the term Blackfoot Indian]. I came across a map done by a Professor from a College in Joplin, Missouri. It was rather old but listed Cherokee villages in Arkansas generally by their names. The last person to have a copy of that map whom I know lives in Monett, Missouri.
These villages were generally named after the primary village chief. One such village was Blackfoot located near what is now Berryville, Arkansas. I believe that all these stories of such come from that village which was Cherokee not Blackfoot.
. . .
end of quote
The author of that piece was thinking of the “Blackfeet” tribe, a was Tommy a recent poster who quit the site. I too with he’d have not gotten the 2 confused. I wish he’d say “Oops, sorry,” and come back.
I also looked up Berryville, Ar on a map and it is in NW Ar. not far from the Mo line. Not too far from the Ok border either. This area would have been within the border of the lands given to the Old Settler Cherokee about 1818.
I’d like to get a good look at that map.
vance
Linda, each day I read Saponitown, I say a little prayer of thanks for you and your remarkable website. My understading of who I am and the cradle of context that birthed me is in no small measure a tribute to the knowledge I’ve happily taken from your unique website. Thank you.
I just wanted to c&p that… it can’t be said too often 😉
Dear Vance,
I noticed on this link there was mentioned a Native town or tribe known as “Saluda”.
My g-grandfather lived in Saluda
(Middlesex County),VA.I wonder if that’s
in the same Saluda my father told me
about.
Roca
One more thing. Berryville, Arkansas (where that man said was once an Indian town named “Blackfoot” in what was once Cherokee land) is maybe 80 miles (approx., from looking at the key to the map) from Miami, Oklahoma. Miami is the home of the federally recognized Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma.
This might be just a coincidence, I don’t know, but it is something that is worth looking into further. I am wanting to read more about the history of the Seneca-Cayuga that made it into NE Oklahoma, the route they took, et cetera.
vance
ps —
Dreaming hawk — I feel the same way. Linda is a wonderful person.
Linda — I hope all is well with you.
Roca,
Do you know what county that was in? Wish I could be of some help, but I don’t know anything about it. Let me know what you find. I hope this is helpful.
vance
Vance,
This is interesting that this Blackfoot is so close to the Seneca Tribe. I read a Canadian web site on the history of the Iroquois. It stated that the Seneca were prolific in their adoption of refugee tribes like the Erie, Saponi, etc and that most of the Oklahoma Seneca were made up of those refugees, while the true Seneca fled to Canada.
Techteach
Roca —
sorry — you did mention the county . . . sometimes I don’t see the forest — all them trees are in the way!
Cindy —
I wanna confirm that “Blackfoot” town really existed in NW Arkansas (Carroll County) before jumping to conclusions. I tried emailing the guy who left that message and haven’t got a reply yet. Hope he still uses that email address. I want to also email the genweb site for Caroll County, Arkansas as well as the Seneca-Cayuga of Oklahoma themselves. I’d like more proof.
Cindy, you said —
I read a Canadian web site on the history of the Iroquois. It stated that the Seneca were prolific in their adoption of refugee tribes like the Erie, Saponi, etc and that most of the Oklahoma Seneca were made up of those refugees, while the true Seneca fled to Canada.
reply —
Can you recall where that website was? We might be on to something . . . hope so, anyhow. I’ve been down so many blind alleys I wouldn’t be suprized if this leads nowhere . . . but ya never know . . . 🙂
vance
Vance,
I may have overstated it, but here are a couple of the web sites : http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/encyclopedia/Erieindians.htm (The Canadian web site) and http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/seneca/senecahist.htm I do not think that this is the only thing I read. Maybe I should look a bit more. I remember reading that Cornplanter’s reservation in PA, land given to him by the Americans, was a place where many refugee Indians stayed. The web site that I posted earlier, the historian’s article on PA Indians, said that Shamokin was a stopover for refugee Indians, that part of the time it was very full of a variety of tribes, including Tutelo who the author mentions by this tribal name, and part of the time, it was empty, as the refugee Indians had continued either north or west. My Blackfoot gggrandmother’s step grandson (follow that, will you?) states that the Indians near where she came from, the Pittsburgh area, were Cornplanter Seneca.
Anyway, let me look a bit farther (although maybe not right now). When you posted your information, I too, thought that it might be significant. Didn’t Linda say 3 things – Blackfoot Town, Blackfoot Church, Blackfoot Cemetery. Would your town be our Blackfoot?
Cindy
Cindy, it looks like that’s what we need to determine. It’s tantalizing if we can place the town in the vicinity of Seneca adoptees likely to be Tutelo.
Roy, I’m very touched by what you said. That’s a lot coming from you, and DH, I’m touched by your c&p. When you get to mid-life and you find a thing or two you’ve done has some value to others it’s a real blessing, if y’all are old enough to know what that means. Thanks too, Vance, for the kind words. We’re doing well. My business is good, keeping me too busy, but that’s not a bad thing.
The site you found referencing the Sissipaha and then relating them by inference to the Blackfoot is enigmatic as to the source. It could be a feedback loop from here. I exchanged a few emails with Douglas Panther-Yates back when he was saying there were Siksika’s who’d made it this way. When I asked for his data, he really didn’t have any, it was just what he considered reasonable conjecture. Then I gave him my evidence. I didn’t hear back, so I didn’t know what he made of it, but perhaps he bought it.
One more thing I thought of interest. The man who wrote in from Piedmont, Wayne County, Missouri, who said his family was “Blackfoot-Cherokee” intrigued me. I looked on the map again and the town of Piedmont, Missouri is on the Black River. My Waylands settled in several loactions on the Black River — near Spring River, Strawberry, and Powhatan, as well as some in Walnut Ridge (which is not on the river, but near it). Strawberry is on Strawberry Creek that runs into Black River. There is also a town almost on the Missouri line called Pocahantas, Arkansas.
Isn’t it odd that in NE Arkansas and SE Missouri that there are 3 towns, one named Piedmont, one named Pocahantas, and another named Powhatan? And all 3 are on the Black River, which runs near to and parallel to the St. Francis River, which is often mentioned as having been settled by emigrant Indians in those days. It is well known that emigrant Indians settled in the “boot heel” (New Madrid, St. Girardeau area) of Missouri first and spread out from there. I remember someone who posted a while back who thought he had Saponi blood from Pocahantas, Arkansas, so that makes all three towns having early day citizens with a similar story.
vance
http://www.geocities.com/seneca_cayuga/committees.html
Look at the surnames of council members — Howard, Logan, Wood, Young, Allen and Birdsong. Don’t those surnames seem farmiliar? Coincidence? I wonder . . .
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