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I’ve just heard from someone with a family legend that’s sparked some interesting questions. I’m still waiting for his permission to go into detail, but it has raised the possibility of a sustained Military capability used against the Americans by TN Blackfoot during the RevWar.
At first flush it seems absurd. The Eastern Siouan had been defeated militarily a hundred years earlier. But if we take the “Blackfoot of the Seneca” noted in WV to refer to the Saponi/Tutelo allied with the Seneca then they could have been active during that war. There’s also the record of a Captain Harris who led a band of Saponi to Joseph Brandt to fight with the British.
Anybody have any thoughts?
Linda, Read below what a lady in DC had to say:
Many years ago I sent to Washington DC for the military record of Meredith Collins. The first time they sent my money back saying no record could be found. The second time they said the records were being moved and that they could find nothing but this time they kept my money. DAR put up a momument in Pike Co. Kentucky honoring the soldiers of the REVWAR and Meredith Collins name is on the momument. I also found out that there has been 7 people granted DAR membership under Meredith’s name. 4 under son William; 1 under Bradley; 2 under Archibald.
Below is reply to my inquiery to DAR.
Dear Ms. Dillon,
Because there is currently no comprehensive list of Minority Patriots,
NSDAR is trying to identify Blacks and Indians who supported the
American cause.
Meredith Collins does not appear on our list of Minority Patriots as the
Society does not, at this time, have any documentation which proves that
he was an Indian. DAR would be delighted to receive any information
concerning him which you might be willing to share.
I am sending you what I have been able to ascertain, so far, about
Meredith Collins.
Meredith Collins has been accepted by DAR as a recognized patriot. The
Society has two long form applications on him. If you wish to order
copies of those applications, you may write to: Record Copy, NSDAR, 1776
D Street NW, Washington, DC 20006. The cost of each application is
$5.00. Checks should be made payable to Treasurer General, NSDAR.
Unfortunately, I do not, at the moment have access to the Library data
files on Meredith Collins. All DAR’s data files are being relocated in
our building and will not be open for research for a couple of weeks. I
shall check our files for any documentation concerning Meredith Collins
when the files are once more accessible and will let you know my
findings.
In the meantime, I am sending the few clues I have been able to find on
the above mentioned applications. Both applications refer to Pike
County, Kentucky Court Order Book A, p.161. Is that the pension
information which you already have? It is possible that Meredith
Collins applied for a pension in Pike County, but for some reason his
application never was sent to the Federal Government which is why you
have not found a pension file.
There is another reference on the applications which reads: “p.84
Fincastle-Montgomery Counties, Virginia Revolutionary War Records Book
Circuit Court of Montgomery County, Christiansburg, Virginia 24073.” Do
you have a copy of that record?
Copies of the Pike County Order Book and the Montgomery County Circuit
Court Revolutionary War Records may be in our files. I won’t know for
sure until I am able to look at the files.
Your email to me states that you have obtained some documentation from
“Kegley”, but you did not further identify your sources. The DAR
Library has many of Mary Kegley’s works, however, I an uncertain which
you have consulted. If you will send me the titles which you have
checked, I’ll look at the works which you have not already examined.
Please do stay in touch. I hope that between us we can find more
information on your ancestor, Meredith Collins, and his brothers.
Sincerely,
Hazel F. Kreinheder
Minority and Ethnic Genealogist
HKreinheder@dar.org (Kreinheder, Hazel)
Adventure on Western Waters by Kegely[begin quote p. 218]
There were several documents dealing with the militia orgainzation which
was very important to every community. It was from this group that men
were selected to serve as scouts, Indian spies, fort and frontier
protectors, and from this group that taxes were levied, road workers
were selected and overseers were appointed. Educated men of the
community were officers and leaders and although court martial
proceedings probably were often recorded, only miscellaneous papers have
surfaced to date. One such document dated April 23, 1783, at a Court
Martial held at the house of Patrick Camplbell, reveals that the
following officers were present: Walter Crockett, Jehu Stephens, James
Newell, William Love, James McDonnald, John Adams, James Finley, Charles
Morgan, William Glaves [Gleaves], Robt. Davies, William Love, William
Dean, David McGavock, Wm. Campbell, Archd. Reaugh, William Caldhoon, and
John McKiiey. The orders of the day included a variety of business.
First, the capitains were to “use their utmost endeavour” to enlist one
sixteenth part of their respective companies to act as cavalry. Jno.
Carr was to be excused from duty because of a “lameness in his left
knee,” and Peter Creegar of Captain Finley’s Company the same because of
“lameness of his right arm.” Several others were excused from further
duty as follows: Jacob Rudy of Captain Newell’s Company, because of a
“running sore in his right leg;” Jacob Spreaker, until he “get the use
of his right leg;’ Bryan Brumpt on “account ot the loss of any eye;’
Henry Vise “he having no teeth.”
Several others apparently had refused to serve their present tours of
duty, because those who did not go with Captain Ozburn were to be sent
“on board the armed vessels for the defence of Chesapeake Bay.”
Included in this group were Hezekiah Cheyne, Samuel Byrd, George Byrd,
Rubin Rogers, Henry Francis (all of Newell’s Company), and Daniel Atter
[Etter], Nicholas Clyne and Jno. Davies (of Captain Finley’s Company),
Robert Shannon, Jr., Chrisley Stailey and Robt. Black (of Captain
Buchanan’s Company), Michael Wampler and Jno. Wolf (of Captain Doak’s
Company). From Captain Swift’s Company those who were threatened with
going to eastern Virginia were Henry Morgan, Samuel Pruit, Timothy
Spencer, Abram Jones, Joseph Laws, Jno. Melvin and Jno. Swainey. Those
of Captain Ozburn’s Company included Joseph Simmons, Jno. Flannery,
Ephraim Ozburn, and Andw. Lofton. In Captain McDonnald’s Company, Joel
Stamper, Daniel Blevins, William Minyard, James Cox, Meredith Collins,
Stephen Austin, Robt. Briggs, Jno. Robison, Moses Indicut, Zachariah
Simmons, Wm. Hill and John Saxton were under similar orders. Daniel
Peirce of Captain Love’s Company, and several whose company was not
designated, John Philips, Evan Jones, Redmond McMahan, Robert Porter,
and Joseph Porter were subject to the same order.
Some of the information I have on hand:
*Document of men in Captain James McDaniel’s
Fincastle Company
*List of men in French & Indian War
*List of men in Dunmore’s War
*Document of Solomon Collins applacation for pension…s/o David 1750
* Appalacation for DAR /Eula Collins Conley
* picture of DAR monument in Pike Co.
——————
Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors…..
Thanks for this great information. But actually, I was considering the possibility of warriors engaging in hostile actions AGAINST the Americans. This would have been people who had fled to the Susquehanna and Appalachians. I know in this time frame we generally think of them as being relatively assimilated, but perhaps we’re being hasty and there were still those capable of putting up arms against the invading hordes (whites).
Seems that I remember something about some Collins relatives of mine have been chased around because they were Tory simpathies. I’ll have to look it up and get back to you on it.
Okay, this is the e’mail that’s got me on this tangent:
One of my ancestors was Timothy Demonbreun. He was the first Lt. Governor of the Illinois territory. He was also one of the founders of Nashville, TN. Sometime around 1770, his wife Therese/Theresa was kidnapped by Indians. She returned several years (7-10) later. The family legend has it she was
kidnapped by Blackfoot Indians. It is unclear whether this kidnapping occurred in the Illinois territory or in TN. Have you ever heard about anything like this?
So you see, if this occurred in TN and is somehow related to the TN Blackfoot we all know and love like our friend Tom, haha, then it implies that in the last half of the 18th century they were still intact enough as a tribe to be practicing war captive/adoption customs. I know there were Saponi/Tutelo folks in various camps allied with the Iroquois in that general latitude and longitude. The question is, could there have been some folks from the Piedmont still living in a traditional way in that time and place? Intriguing. I mean, we’re talking about some real WILD NDNs stealing white women and everything, haha.
Bill, I pulled up this old thread because I had been trying to find out something on Meredith Collins’ REVWAR activity. He enlisted in 1776 at age 16 years the same day and in the same district as did George, David, and Lewis Collins and all four were asigned to Captain James McDaniel’s Fincastle Company.
The other night I was going through the Collins Genforum and found this answer to an inquiery I had made some time ago.
What to know what you think……Research done by
Debbie D. Hogue, Sandston VA. Her line is David Collins which we found interesting she had the same four names as did I. The name Richard Collins also popes up in my line( my gr grandfather)Of course she does not mention the name Meredith however, the Dowell and Edmond comes from the line of Griffin Collins who signed the marriage record of my gr gr grandfather and his first wife, Lydia Toner in Grainger County, TN 1821. I have always believed Griffin was the brother of Meredith but have never proven it.
I have researched the Melungeon end and that could be true, my husband’s great grandfather was very dark. Collins is a Melungeon name in Southwest VA.
——-
Descendants of Unk Collins
Generation No. 1
1. Unk1 Collins
Children of Unk Collins are:
+ 2 i. David “Sr.”2 Collins, born Abt. 1754 in VA; died in Campbell County, VA.
+ 3 ii. Lewis Collins, born 1754 in VA.
4 iii. George Collins, born Abt. 1754.
Notes for George Collins:
Meredith on is Captain James McDaniel’s Fincastle Militia at age 16. He entered this company with a George,David,and Lewis Collins.
Generation No. 2
2. David “Sr.”2 Collins (Unk1) was born Abt. 1754 in VA, and died in Campbell County, VA. He married Ann Lee January 24, 1786 in Campbell Co, VA. She was born Abt. 1756 in VA, and died in Campbell County, VA.
Notes for David “Sr.” Collins:
Meredith on is Captain James McDaniel’s Fincastle Militia at age 16. He entered this company with a George,David,and Lewis Collins.
Children of David Collins and Ann Lee are:
6 i. David “Jr.”3 Collins, born Abt. 1787.
+ 7 ii. George Collins, born Abt. 1790.
+ 8 iii. Richard Collins, born 1798.
3. Lewis2 Collins (Unk1) was born 1754 in VA.
Notes for Lewis Collins:
Meredith on is Captain James McDaniel’s Fincastle Militia at age 16. He entered this company with a George,David,and Lewis Collins.
Lewis’ pension application states: entered service from 1776 from SC: esf Montgomery Co, VA where father resides, pensioned 1834 Hawkins Co, TN, when residence Granger Co, TN; applied for pension 1853, by sons Dowell and son Edward, soldier heirs 1853 Knox Co, TN R614
Children of Lewis Collins are:
9 i. Dowell3 Collins.
10 ii. Edmond Collins.
Generation No. 3
7. George3 Collins (David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born Abt. 1790. He married Rebecca “Indian”.
Child of George Collins and Rebecca “Indian” is:
+ 21 i. Henry4 Collins, born 1823 in Montgomery Co, VA; died in Montgomery Co, VA.
8. Richard3 Collins (David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born 1798. He married Evelina Lee February 06, 1821 in Montgomery Co, VA. She was born 1805.
Children of Richard Collins and Evelina Lee are:
22 i. Mary4 Collins, born 1827.
+ 23 ii. Elinor Ellen Collins, born 1832.
24 iii. Emily Collins, born 1842.
+ 25 iv. Hamilton Wade Collins, born April 1844.
26 v. Adaline Collins, born 1848.
27 vi. Richard M. Collins, born August 1849.
Generation No. 4
21. Henry4 Collins (George3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born 1823 in Montgomery Co, VA, and died in Montgomery Co, VA. He married Malinda Lee February 01, 1849 in Montgomery Co, VA, daughter of Robert Lee and Mary Lowry. She was born 1825 in Montgomery Co, VA, and died in Montgomery Co, VA.
Children of Henry Collins and Malinda Lee are:
38 i. Eliza Jane5 Collins, born 1849.
39 ii. Mary A. Collins, born 1851.
+ 40 iii. RobertHenry Collins, born October 1853.
+ 41 iv. JohnWilliam “Big Bill” Collins, born November 10, 1855 in Montgomery Co, VA; died March 30, 1933 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA.
42 v. James M. Collins, born 1858.
43 vi. Rebecca Collins, born 1861.
44 vii. Joseph Collins, born 1863.
45 viii. Charles Collins, born 1866.
46 ix. Malinda Collins, born 1869.
23. Elinor Ellen4 Collins (Richard3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born 1832. She married Henry Willard.
Child of Elinor Collins and Henry Willard is:
+ 47 i. Virginia Bell “Jennie”5 Willard, born in Montgomery Co, VA; died 1892 in Montgomery Co, VA.
25. Hamilton Wade4 Collins (Richard3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born April 1844. He married Paulina. She was born 1839, and died April 19, 1911 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co., VA.
Children of Hamilton Collins and Paulina are:
+ 48 i. Estes5 Collins, born 1878 in Montgomery Co, VA.
+ 49 ii. Hammet E. Collins, born 1879 in Montgomery Co, VA.
Generation No. 5
40. RobertHenry5 Collins (Henry4, George3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born October 1853. He married Mary S. 1879. She was born February 1860.
Children of RobertHenry Collins and Mary S. are:
64 i. Henry E.6 Collins, born June 1879 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co., VA. He married Emma; born 1890 in VA.
65 ii. Bertha J. Collins, born October 1887.
66 iii. Archer B. “Archie” Collins, born June 1890 in VA. He married Mary Abt. 1909; born 1890 in VA.
67 iv. Minnie Collins, born July 1896.
41. JohnWilliam “Big Bill”5 Collins (Henry4, George3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born November 10, 1855 in Montgomery Co, VA, and died March 30, 1933 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA. He married (1) Virginia Bell “Jennie” Willard January 10, 1878 in VA, daughter of Henry Willard and Elinor Collins. She was born in Montgomery Co, VA, and died 1892 in Montgomery Co, VA. He married (2) Virginia A. “Jennie” Dixon 1897 in Montgomery Co, VA. She was born June 14, 1871, and died June 22, 1959 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA.
Notes for JohnWilliam “Big Bill” Collins:
Mamie and Eva are both listed as age 13, wonder if they are twins?
Children of JohnWilliam Collins and Virginia Willard are:
+ 68 i. William Howard6 Collins, born November 1876.
69 ii. Mattie A. Collins, born November 1878.
70 iii. ThomasJames Collins, born July 1883.
+ 71 iv. Walter Eli Collins, born March 22, 1886 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA; died May 01, 1963 in Montgomery Co, VA.
72 v. Carrie Collins, born November 1891.
Children of JohnWilliam Collins and Virginia Dixon are:
73 i. Clarence H.6 Collins, born March 20, 1897 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA; died June 11, 1957 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA.
74 ii. Florence G. Collins, born April 1899.
75 iii. Ethol N. Collins, born 1902.
76 iv. Myrtle T. Collins, born 1905.
77 v. Anie H. Collins, born 1906.
78 vi. Mamie H. Collins, born 1907.
79 vii. Eva F. Collins, born 1907.
47. Virginia Bell “Jennie”5 Willard (Elinor Ellen4 Collins, Richard3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born in Montgomery Co, VA, and died 1892 in Montgomery Co, VA. She married JohnWilliam “Big Bill” Collins January 10, 1878 in VA, son of Henry Collins and Malinda Lee. He was born November 10, 1855 in Montgomery Co, VA, and died March 30, 1933 in Christiansburg, Montgomery Co, VA.
Notes for JohnWilliam “Big Bill” Collins:
Mamie and Eva are both listed as age 13, wonder if they are twins?
Children are listed above under (41) JohnWilliam “Big Bill” Collins.
48. Estes5 Collins (Hamilton Wade4, Richard3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born 1878 in Montgomery Co, VA. He married Susie P.. She was born 1884.
Child of Estes Collins and Susie P. is:
80 i. George A.6 Collins, born 1910.
49. Hammet E.5 Collins (Hamilton Wade4, Richard3, David “Sr.”2, Unk1) was born 1879 in Montgomery Co, VA. He married Grace A. She was born 1886.
Children of Hammet Collins and Grace A are:
81 i. Hamilton6 Collins, born April 29, 1904 in Montgomery Co, VA; died November 1986.
82 ii. Emmett Collins, born 1906.
83 iii. Florrence Collins, born 1910.
Thanks Brenda,
I need to go thru these for matches.
I, too, have LEEs [related to LEWIS, GREEN, RODGERS/ROGERS, ALLISON/ELLISON, LUCAS, MONTGOMERY, ELLIS, SCOTT, WRIGHT & KITSON in N.Central Ky) who came out of Wake Co., NC in the 1790s, descendants of Daniel LEE, b.abt. 1746 Va.
Bill
Linda I know a lady whose come to the Chickamauga research group specifically to research this very thing, only with “Melungeons”, and she wants to see if they helped the Chickamauga, not the Seneca.
I am doin a lotta research on this too, but most of what I am findin’ points to them being used by Colonists, not the Tories. I am discovering about some Tories. There were Browns, and Stuarts who were Tories. Chief Colbert’s father was a Tory, and of course Cameron. Nathaniel Gist was for 2 years and he switched sides. His father Christopher Gist was said to have saved George Washington’s life on 1 or 2 occasions during the “French and Indian War” in the 1750s and this might have saved the younger Gist’s (Nathaniel) life, as there were many who wanted to hang him on the spot .
It was said of Nathaniel Gist that he became an adovcatre of using Indian troops and that he borught 17 Cherokee with him whom he embedded (ie — integrated — rare for those times) into the units under his command. I posted this already but I don’t knnow where it is now.
But there were said to be 2 companies of Tories who fought with Dragging Canoe and it was said that many of them were mixed bloods. I’ll look it up and bring the reference here.
Another Possible View of things —
Lewis M. Jarvis
Mr. Jarvis was born in 1829 and lived with the “Melungeons” in Hancock County. In the census records you will find him living just doors away from the Gibsons, Collins and other families called Melungeon. He was a schoolteacher in 1850 and knew Vardy Collins and wife Peggy Gibson.1903. Interview Hancock County Times.
Mr. Jarvis said —
“The white emigrants with the friendly Indians erected a fort on the bank of the river and called it Fort Blackmore and here yet many of these friendly “Indians” live in the mountains of Stony creek, but they have married among the whites until the race has almost become extinct.”
Question — when was Fort Blackmore built? Was it during the Revolution or afterwards. If it was afterwards, to quote Gilda Radner, “never mind”. 🙂
But it is possble they fought on both sides.
vance
Page 137, Heart of the Eagle, by Brent Cox, book well researched and started as a Masters thesis.
direct quote —
“Throughout the war, several companies of dismounted Tories attached themselves to Dragging Canoe’s command, and at least 2 companies of mounted Tories served with the Chickamaugas. British traders and their families also supported Dragging Canoe’s army, in order to gain protection from the American’s military. Most of these people were mixed bloods and were able to adapt to either culture.”
— end of quote
It is unclear if he is saying most of the traders were mixed blood, or most of both these Tories and traders were mixed bloods. Both are in the same paragraph so it might be either.
The author is now a “Dr. Cox” I was told, so Dr. Cox references — Colin G. Calloway , “The American Revolution in Indian Country: Crisis and Diversity in Native American Communities.” Cambridge University Press, 1995. — as his source for the above quoted section.
vance
HI; Iam not sure if this will help, but I have looked a TN records and mainly court and census but many of the names in and around white co. many are related to the Cherokee people, but many are from the NC areas (that’s east nc). I think that they the names are mixed Saponi / Sixsapaha and maybe Catawba and others.
The early names amongst the Cherokees are from the early settlers, and it looks like many of them were mixed Indian people, what I did see in several records was that many were revolutionary soldiers; they may have been given land in other states besides Tn and NC, perhaps even in Penn.
I found a family name that had atrophied to “Berman” down from “Little Berry Man”.
Rather than looking for a group of people I’d try and trace names back to a common thread, and look at old records if any exist re. land grants etc.
Like I say I do not know if any of this will help, but I’d look for the trees instead of the forest. All the best Tom
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