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Hello,
I am researching some ancestors in a different area of the family and I have seen things about them that make me wonder about possible Saponi or Monacan ancestry.
A few ancestors are Stephen T. Saunders and Elizabeth “Bettie” Mallory, who lived in the west and north areas of Hanover County, VA for the 1850 and 1860 censuses. These same areas of Hanover County I have seen mentioned on this site. Later, on the 1870 census, they are listed in the James River Township of Buckingham County, VA with their post office being listed as Curdsville. This township of Buckingham County directly borders Nelson County, VA. In Hanover County, there are a number of names neighboring them that I have seen mentioned on this site such as Patterson, Hall, Butler, and Tinsley. The neighboring names in Buckingham County I must research more but two of these names are Donald and Coleman.
I have seen the name “Saunders” mentioned in threads on this site and in other places. I know less about the name “Mallory” but am searching for more information. Has anyone come across these specific names or know anything more about the Saunders/Mallory names in these areas?
Also, one quick question about the site. I would like to update some of my previous posts, but I can’t find an edit button. Is there a way to edit or should I just post a new message on the thread?
BBPress is the software that runs the forum. There is a time limit on how long a post can be edited for. Posting a new message is the easiest way to put new information.
Here is some additional information about Stephen Thomas Saunders and Elizabeth “Bettie” Lewis Mallory mentioned above. Any information or comments in response are welcomed.
Elizabeth “Bettie” Lewis Mallory was born in Hanover County and is likely descended from Thomas J Mallory and Elizabeth M (last name uncertain but possibly Duke). Both Thomas J Mallory and Elizabeth M (Duke?) are listed constantly in census records near to names associated with the Saponi and other tribes on census records in Hanover and are centered around the Saponi-associated areas of western and northwestern Hanover.
It appears that Stephen Thomas Saunders likely originated from the area of Buckingham County, VA. Stephen Thomas Saunders is said by some to be a descendant of Stephen Douglas Saunders and Emma Josephine Magdalena Moe, but this is not certain. There seem to be many different Saunders in Buckingham, and it is difficult to figure out exactly how Stephen Thomas Saunders connects to them (although there seems to be a local use of the name “Stephen” Saunders in Buckingham).
Many of the descendants of these two names moved to Warwick County, VA (today the city of Newport News) or the city of Richmond beginning around the early 1900s. The descendants married names such as Harrell, Tarry/Terry, Jones, Lane, Melton, and Sears. There appears to be long associations of the Saunders/Mallory families with many of these names. On one of the mid-1800s censuses in Hanover County, several people named “Harrold” (which Marc Snelling has mentioned in a past post as a spelling of “Harrell”) lives in the same household as Saunders and Mallory in Hanover County.
One descendant of Saunders and Mallory did not move to these areas but rather moved to specific counties in West Virginia and Kentucky, showing very similar movement patterns as others mentioned on this site.
Does anyone have any information about these locations, names, or movement patterns? Any response does not have to be about these specific ancestors; any information or comments are welcomed.
I am a Harrell and Jones descendant and have connected to others on those lines through SaponiTown.
My Jones line married into the Smith line from Southwestern VA / Southern WV.
They went through Clinton County OH to Grant County IN.The Harrell/Harrold line was one that was in the early Bardstown KY area with several other Saponi surnames in the 1780s.
They were later in Johnson County IN.These lines (in my tree and all the other connected trees) are hard to trace before the late 1700s. My Harrell line may have been in Bertie County NC. The lines they marry into come from further North – Stafford/Loudon County VA area for Harrell (before Loudon County was formed).
In the case of Jones, they were said to be at Fort Germanna – Culpepper County.
I don’t recognize the other surnames from VA, but I have not looked in detail at the extended families there because of how difficult they are to trace.
On the 1810 Bardstown census (when my Harrell descendent is still there – married to Cotton) there is a Saunders, a Melton and a Lane.
https://kykinfolk.com/nelson/census/1810SKIndex.html
Thank you for your response.
In researching other areas of my family in Nansemond/Gates Counties, Harrell is definitely a name that I see often there too. Since you mentioned that your Harrells were possibly in nearby Bertie County, do you feel that the name Harrell was associated with the Saponi at the time that your ancestors were there or do you feel that it was more associated with other Native people in the area of Bertie at that time? Also, was there ever a Saponi presence at the Indian Woods reservation in Bertie County?
That’s a good question. The lines with family history of Native ancestry that marry in to my Harrell include Linthicum, Irwin, and Tucker. Harrell is definitely a surname on Rick Haithcock’s Saponi list.
The European lines that marry in come to the colonies in the early 1600s, so they are certainly there early enough to marry into Nations closer to the coast than the Piedmont Saponi/Siouan. The Mayo that came over on the Mayflower, and the Dyer line of Quaker martyr Mary Barrett Dyer are two in my tree.
Irwin is definitely a surname on Saponi lists. But that name came into my tree via a second marriage, not by blood. There are a lot of multiple marriages and half-siblings in this group. Tucker is listed in Saponi/Siouan surname lists but as Nansemond. This is the same Tucker line that former VP Dan Quayle’s wife descends from I believe. Linthicum I have just encountered descendants here on SaponiTown who say it married into Native lines, but not specific to which Nation.
Mary Harrell/Harrold in my line is in early Bardstown KY. Some trees show her born in Bertie NC, some say born in Bardstown. There are no records, but it is pretty unlikely she was born there, it’s too early. I think that was just someone’s guess. She married Henry Cotton there in 1787. A good portion of that 1780s Bardstown group have Saponi/Siouan surnames.
In my tree, Mary Harrell’s granddaughter marries into a Marshel/Marshall line that I believe is fully European. This one goes way back too, also descending from the Van Etten’s who were farmer in Manhattan in the early 1600s. That is not the usual pattern. Saponi/Siouan lines typically marry for many successive generations up to present day.
Her great-granddaughters line definitely marries into a Saponi/Siouan line. A line that I share with Linda Carter and marries into the Dillon’s – probably the same as Brenda Collins Dillon. But before that it is hard to say.
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