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I thought some of you might be interested in participating in this study. It looks as though you can find out results of the male DNA test and female DNA test, don’t you think?
https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/journey.html
Techteach
I wonder if we could all make some indication of family tradition of eastern ndn? maybe at this point quoted below:
If you’d like to contribute your own results to the project’s global database you’ll be asked to answer a dozen “phenotyping” questions that will help place your DNA in cultural context.
Mine would only follow the Daltons back to england but my mom’s would go back from Annie Odell Lunsford to Laura Lois Satterfield to Jane Lewis Bumpass to Nancy Roundtree Day to ???? That set of results might be interesting.
Considering the reputation of Nat Geo and the incredibly low price of $99 and the database being established…. I think this would be the best way to get the basic test done.
Dreaminghawk,
My understanding is that it is the male and female test only, right? Is that yours?
Techteach
I haven’t really been into the whole DNA thing up to this point. Proving what I already know has never been a priority of mine.
It does appear to be the basic men’s paternal line only and women’s maternal line only test.
I am far from expert on dna testing but my gut says that if I decided to get the test, this is where my $99 would go. ….but I would rather pay for my mother’s test 😉
Thanks Cindy for telling me about this — I didn’t know it was here.
Dreaminghawk, I got my test because I don’t know much about my Hawkins ancestors, I know nothing before a census saying Joshua Allen Hawkins was born about 1838 in Alabama. I hope it will tell me who my Hawkins ancestors were before that date.
If I had known about this site, I might have used it instead of who I did use.
thanks
vance
Vance,
I just found the site. It does a good job of explaining the tests.
Wish I could take advantage. I have suspected that my gggrandmother who moved her family away from those who accepted their NDN might be a bit of a hypocrite, as her ggrandparents were born in areas that were awfully early for whites, but I am not sure enough to use this test right now. All the lines I know are NDN are not straight male or female.
At least, I can’t do this until we sell the house we are trying to sell. Would be nice to participate after that.
Techteach
Cindy —
Have you tried finding family members who are long lost relatives, whose ancestry does go back the straight male or female lines? I know this will be difficult, tho, maybe impossible. A problem with this is in the early days most often it was a Caucasian male and an Indian female. Since surnames travel down the male line, it is hard to trace the female lines, as maiden names are usually harder to trace in early American history.
I really doubt my straight male Hawkins line is Indian either. But it might take me back to some original English/Irish settler, that has been a pretty big step for us to hurdle for quite some time now. That’s enough for me. But if some of the descendants of that original Hawkins settler were known to have had Indian descendants, that’d be an unexpected bonus. It won’t prove my Hawkins were mixed (as I am certain he will have had White and possibly Black descendants also), but it is more circumstantial evidence that I can lump with all the other circumstantial evidence we have.
The female line of my family is even more interesting, tho, conserning the possibility of finding American Indian halpotypes. But I can’t take that test. Dad had 5 brothers and 2 sisters. Both of his sisters had daughters. Those 2 aunts of mine were Aunt Lula and Aunt Lorena. Their mother (my grandma) was Lona Richey. Loney’s mother was Josephine Brown and her mother was Harriet Guess. It is my Richey’s (Wayland’s, Wood’s, Dickson’s, & Hamilton’s) that appear to go back to Eastern Siouan. The Brown’s and Guesses appear to go back to Cherokee. When I read about the Gist surname I am not certain –it might have been mixed with Eastern Siouan as some of them lived in the heart of the same lands as the Eastern Siouan peoples for several generations, and some were known Indian traders.
I’ll have to get in touch with some of my female cousins descended from dad’s 2 sisters, tho and see if they want to take the test. I’d love to find the results of that test. It might show something . . .
vance
Vance,
We did test Deb’s father who is a direct Sinkey, and it came up English. However, I am not sure of a female. Part of the problem is that my ggrandparents moved away to get away from the NDN, so I did not even know I was related to some folks I went to high school with until 3 years ago. So I meet some distant relatives through the Internet. Then they have to accept the possibility that they are part NDN. I have met some who will not. But if I find someone, I likely will fund the test.
It is also necessary to sort the information left from the last DNA test. We think the McCartney line is likely NDN, as well as the Greens, so we have to find someone who descends from these separate lines. I think we can find someone for the Greens, but I don’t know the McCartney line beyond Mary’s father.
Techteach
Cindy,
One disadvantge of the DNA testings I have seen is that that orignial Sinley from England might (or one of his kids or grandkids) have had an Indian wife, and her DNA would not appear in any tests that I know of except through mtDNA through the female line.
And if the first male McCartney in your line is European, a male test will also not reveal Indian ancestry. But you might find you are related to a Beatle. 🙂
As for the Greens, there is a group based in Columbia, Missouri called “Northern Cherokee Nation of Old Louisiana Territory”, and their founder wrote a long history book and they claim descendancy from the Cherokee, and are also Green’s. Now I have never read the book and it is about $50 I think. But they may tell some Green famly genealogy. I hesitate to recomend it because I don’t think their Greens ARE Cherokee — I bet they wee like some of the rest of us — stories of Cherokee but in reality Eastern Siouan. This group claims there were Cherokee in Missouri.
I doubt there were ever very many Cherokee in Missouri, and those few left after the New Madrid earthquake in 1811. A late migration just before (fleeing fear of violence) or after the Civil War (also fleeing fear of revenge for what happened in the Civil War) might have arrived from the Cherkee Nation, but not many.
But there might be something in the book that would be meaningful to other Green Researchers. Maybe someone has read it and can tell mor about it.
Vance
Vance, Cindy, et al,
Dan Akin and I were involved with the author of this book. In fact the author of this book is Dan’s relative. The Green history in this work is mostly unreliable, and yes you are correct Vance in saying the true origin of this family is probably Southeast Siouan. In fact I refer you to a post I made earlier last week in regards to Thom Green who was a Nottoway in 1711. This man was in the Ft. Christanna region. Anyway, back to Beverlys book about the Greens, and the so called Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Terr. If you like stories that the Cherokee are the lost Tribe if Isreal etc, then you might enjoy this bit o’ fanfare.( It is probably in line with the concepts of Mr. Panther-Yates) In the book she mentions that the Greens were Cherokee and had settled in SE MO during the 1790s and migrated en mass to Boone County MO in 1830. Dan found his Greens were still in KY in 1830.
Vance in regards to the Cherokee in SE MO. I researched this very in depth. I found that some Cherokee had arrived pre 1790 and in 1794 some were in Cape Girardeau asking permission from Louis Lorimier to move there. I can send you more information with sources regarding this if you are interested.
Charles Orear
Vance and Charles,
I think earlier I may have tried to tie those Greens to mine and never could. Mine come from Portobacco, MD to Shepherdstown, WVA, to Licking County, OH and finally, IA. The story in our family is Cherokee, but I seriously doubt this. Some family thinks Shawnee. And Vance, I like the Beatles, but Mary is also seen as McCarty too, so I am not sure which is right.
Charles, you bring back memories. I used to live in Cape and did tombstone rubbings in the cemetery Lorimer was buried in. All I ever heard of were the Shawnee there, but then, I was not paying attention at the time, not knowing anything of my NA background at the time other than Grandma saying we were.
Techteach
Hello, I find this very interesting as many points about the early locations are really something that I have had to come to grips with.
I believe that in the old Virginia areas that there were Cherokee people, but over time either merged with Souian groups, married white people or retreated back into Cherokee territory, but those that remained were and are largely unaccounted for, so it confuses our establieshed standards. I realy believe that there were Cherokee people in Va. at some point in time.
I have often heard Proff,s. speak of a large pan tribal group on the Va Nc boarder, not unlike the Lumbee people today, but back then they were pushed out.
These became our ancestors etc.
Also in the more westenly parts of the “Eatern Blackfoot Diaspora” regions there were no doubt people that our ancestors were already familiar with, so moving west was not such a problem, my familiy has records going back to very early Iowa, and into the Dakotas a bit ealier than the “full blooded white ” community would have, I also see my family sirnames showing up in the Red River areas of what today is Manitoba Province and those folks were called “Metis” by the French, escentially mixed blood people.
Certainly these early familes were very mixed, later on in history all my relatives establish themselves on or near Treaty Indian lands, and later yrt moving into racially mixed towns and “hoods”! rather very interesting!
My husband is from Southeast MO and has family stories of being Cherokee as well as Blackfoot. His father is Blackfoot and his mother Cherokee. Pictures of his maternal grandmother and great grandmother give weight to the family stories. His mother also has serious indian features. His father also has many features that gives strength to all the family stories. Actually he does too when I first looked at my husband I knew just as he knew when he looked at me. And Vance those shovel shaped incisors and asian eyefolds are both traits my husband and I have. His eyes are small and close together although they are sky blue. His skin is much darker than mine but I have all that Scotish blood that causes me to be fair. I believe there were several Cherokee families in SE Mo as well as Blackfoot families. I have hit a brick wall when it comes to finding anything out about his mother’s family. His father’s family I have tracked to North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia and a stop in Tennessee. He has Terry’s in his family tree and that’s a Monacan surname and they were up in that area at one time they also made a stop in Halifax County NC, Laurens County, South Carolina down by the Catawba in the early 1700’s and in Anson County NC as well. This family did alot of traveling 🙂 and it has made it hard to track them. The Cherokee side is a dead end with his great grandmother who was a Beard. His mother is a Roberts. His grandmother was Hattie Beard the daughter of Samuel and Zol Beard. From what I ahve learned Sol is a m ale name but this is what his greatgrandmother was named her maiden name is elusive. I asked him what was her maiden name he says all he ever knew was ggrandma Sol Beard. I did find a Beard on the rolls of Cherokee in Arkansas in the early 1800’s and this family did come out of Arkansas according to family stories. There has to be some fact to all these family stories. When his mother was still with them (she has Alzheimer’s) she told him that she was 1/4 Cherokee. And his father looked me straight in the eye and said I’m a Blackfoot Indian. LOL He is 73 and can drink some booze and smoke some cigarettes. I can not even remember how many times my husband has resued his father from ditches his car has hit because of his drinking usually it’s the ditch in front of his house though, the old man will probably live to be 100. Actually it’s sad to be honest…my husband has reminded him many times about those old stories of indians and firewater. At least he’s not mean when he’s drinking. He also calls me Susie he says his four sons have had so many women friends and wives that they are all called Susie anymore LOL. This whole family is just a bunch of crazy characters. My husband and his brother (the Preacher) are the only ones that are sane I think. Must have been all that moving and running. Anyway there were and still are Blackfoot and Cherokee in south east Missouri several of whom I am related to through marriage. He and I just smiled when we learned our families had at one time lived near each other for at least one generation in Halifax County NC but they never married each other until he and I did last year but they knew each other. We found this out in land records. Where my family refused to leave their homeland his moved on to find better pastures and just kept moving even into my husband’s generation (btw his first name is Terry 🙂 one of those old family
names.
Linda
Charles —
I’d love to see what ever you have! I’m vhawkins@pacer.com. Well everyone — about that book — never mind. 🙁
Just last week I read most of the rest of American state Papers, Indian Affairs,vol. 2 and there were several tribes living there in SE Mo and others in other parts of Missouri. when I get time I will print it out (I just saved the images to my computer) and go over it more slowly and post some of it.
Tom, I like you a lot as a person, but I am gonna have to disagree with you until you can find documents that are undisputable. I apologize for any percieved offence, and don’t mean to disrespect you or your family. I’ve looked until I don’t know where to look anymore, and found nothing who remained in those areas. Hope you understand and don’t take it personal.
Quest for facts — I have several Cherokee roll books around the house, some deal with Old settlers — I’ll se what I can find about Beard’s.
Found Anna Beard in Claremore (Old Settlers Roll 1896)
Oct 26, 1818, Char-char, or Beard, Emigration Roll.
none in Guion Miller plus, 1909, accepted rolls, 4 in rejected rolls from Alabama, Tennnssee, and Colorado the otehr said “uplicate of 1952. Since they are in alphabetical and not numerical order, it will be difficult to find that one, as tehre are 280 pages ofnames using very small fonts, 4 columns per page for rejected and 2 for accepted names. Wish I could be more helpful. I also have Starrs book but I can’t find it right now — will look it up later.
vance
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