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Hi,
My name is Al and I”m 41.I”m from south jersey which is where my dads family is from and from the little I know of his side of the family their all straight up white,mostly german,irish and english.Moms side is what brings me here and I know a lot about her side but maybe you all here could fill in some holes for me.I was born and raised in jersey.mom was born in fayette county wv and brought here as a young child so granny and pop pop could work in the glass factories.pop pop said it beat the coal mines and world war 2.granny was bron in waterloo ohio but all her sisters older then her were born in lawrence and carter counties ky which is where poppy was from grannys dad who died when i was five in 69.I”m the youngest of the family that can remember him.he was born in 1891 in paintsville.now theirs been rumors in the family that granny”s mommy martha anna (annie) wright was part indian and her momma mary holbrook was supposedly indian and dutch and right off the boat from granny said wherever dutch people come from.i informed her that would be holland or the netherlands and I asked her how she could be off the boat but already half indian?she didnt know but didnt even seem to understand the contradiction here.I already had studied about melungeons by this time but try not to lay too much on granny she”s 80 and her head swims easily.now i have pics of mary holbrook and her husband ervin wright and they both look white at first glance though they are a wee bit tan but ervin has a strong hooked nose and they both have abnormally high cheekbones(the doctor thought i was oriental when i was born because i had slanted eyes,i still have narrow eyes but their not slanted anymore but I”m white as a sheet though really dark hair)now ervin wrights momma was a pennington and they were intermarried with caudills of which I”m descended and bollings of which I am not at least not verified yet.the family has rumored that were related to pocahontas(unverified) and daniel boone(verified) on grannys dads side poppys mom was virginia chaffin whose mom was harriet goins whose daddy was alexander goins of stonega va fame.he was murdered in 1844 in stonega and theirs info on the web about him.i found his grave just two piles of rocks 12 ft apart to mark the head and feet.it”s along a small road and next to a creek that floods the grave occasionally so the ground is leveled by the river but the rocks remain.he was buried where he fell off his horse after being shot.so branny may have indians on both her mom and dads side.goins,wrights,penningtons,caudills,shorts do these names sound familiar?
Now befoe ky most of my kin on these lines trace from wise county va and from there to the yadkin river area of nc.wilkes,surry and stokes county areas.beyond that i lose track of most of these except wrights who seem to come from goochland county.i also trace a lot of other lines to henrico county well back into the 1600″s..It may be a coincidence but their was a john wright in the roanoke colony along with a richard berry.i have grandparenst from ky named both of these names.i forgot the berry”s.
i guess thats enough background info now for a question.do you believe that maybe my ancestors married into tribes such as pamunky,saponi,sara etc. and the names continued or do you think that the indians met people by these names and stole the names and that therefore these lines would be entirely untraceable to europe because they never go there?Do you think that any of us might have lost colony ancestors?the lumbee seem to think so.also i have read that some think the wise county goins be black and others think they be injun,what think youse?alexander was known to not be white.no one knows his parents and their are some serious people researching him.we know at least some of his kids and siblings,he was married to mary skidmore i dont know if thats a melungeon name or not,sounds like sizemore to me.I know that was more then a (one) question 🙂
I”ve been reading the forums and the history links and this website is great.I also read here and other places about the bearded white men in tenn and va that shouldn”t have been there yet but were.I”ve also studied juan pardo and desoto expeditions and was wondering if you think the indians moving west might have mixed with spanish portuguese?the spanish seemed more willing to mix with the indians then the english did.I also believe a lot of the portuguese that came here were actually jews who were culturally portuguese but racially jews who came here to escape the inquisition.I”ve read that goins is also believed to be portuguese at leas in part.do you think that portuguese/jew might figure in the mix that make up my hillbilly kin along with a strong dose of scotch irish to boot(i also happen to be kin to the macgregor clan of glenarchy scotland”macgregor despit em”)
thanks for any feedback,
Al
Sorry I know this is a Saponi forum but i have do this LOL MacGregor, ay? I’m the many greats granddaughter of the Earl of Gowrie his given name was William Ruthven look him up.
Linda
looks like they killed yer many gr grandpappy.I had a few murdered of my own.hugh sparks,william pennington were killed by yankee guerillas though hugh did some murderin of his own befor they got him.alexander goins was murdered but i hear he was a mean one that mighta had it comin and of course i no doubt had some nasty goins on in my children of the mist macgregor past.now that i think about it it”s a wonder I”m even here all my greats that bit the dust in a violent matter:-)no hereos yet but a lot of dirty deeds have surfaced.whatever happened to ozzie and harriet?:-)
Al
oh, I have many heros even into my generation. My 1st cousin is a Green Beret and has been in both Gulf Wars he has a Bronze Star. My sons father is a vet of the first Gulf War and came home with the Bronze Star. My brother is a vet of this latest Gulf War…no major awards but he served. My Paternal grandfather received a 21 gun salute at his death for gallant service in WWI. He was 93 when he died in 1987. The flag of this great country has draped our coffins for generations. It draped my grandfathers, my fathers, it will drape my brothers and mine. We are a family of service to our country.
Linda
But then again LOL one of my many great uncles fired the first shot of the Civil War…his name was Edmund Ruffin look him up too. What a legacy to live with LOL We lost many in that war was a sad situation all around. Yep I’m a southerner. In my 20’s i use to have this t shirt that said American by birth southern by the grace of God. I went up to New York wearing that t shirt. LOL
Linda
I”m a desert storm vet from the first one myself.didnt know that made me a hero.we had a lot of vietnam vets in my unit over there and i figured if they were heroes in Nam why should we be heroes now.never considered myself one and still don”t.
I know all about ruffin.I”m a long time civil war buff.i always like a man or woman who will speak their mind even if I don”t agree with em and old ruffin was the type.hair down to his butt and seccesh too the core:-)I”ve had granfathers killed on both sides of that war and it ain”t surprisin seeins most of my moms kin at that time were in kentucky,some still are.my dads kin were straight up yanks from jersey and pa.Me myself and I dont and never have believed in slavery though my kin owned a few of them too but i also believe the constitution never had a thou shalt not secede clause in it so i believe the south had a right to secede for whatever reason they chose but the north also had a right to stop em if they could.might makes right in this world like it or not and the numbers and industrial might of the north prevailed.never was a question of valor,their was plenty of that on both sides my wonderment is that the south came as close to winnin as it did.I”m kinda glad whenever I head over the va line I dont have to go thru customs and I”m glad the north won but I”m also proud the south put up such a great fight.yes i believe it was a bad cause because we had a pretty fair government back then,not so sure we still do.then again most wasnt fightin for or against slaves as one reb put it when asked why he fought by a yank he said”because youuns is here”,sums it up nicely don”t you think.
sorry to get on a war tangent.wish I had half to fight for in Iraq that the rebs and yanks were fightin for maybe I woulda felt like a hero when the fightin was done:-)
Al
Welcome, Al,
Have you used the ‘search’ button on the upper right to search on the surnames you’ve mentioned?
Bill
Well if you know all about Ruffin then you know alot about how I was raised we all speak our minds cause that is our right as Americans. We are all very vocal and at times opinionated people. My gentle sweet Native American grandmother married into this illustious family. I have many of her traits but i also have much of the Ruffin’s in me. That Ruffin comes out if I’m ever backed into a corner or used or abused in any way. My ex husband the Gulf War vet got to know the Ruffin side of me quite well. LOL He faced me in a southern courtroom because of his mental and physical abuse. For his abuse he will pay the price the rest of his life when he writes the check every month until he dies. Most of the time the judge will say until she remarries LOL this time he said until you die Mr. Althouse whether she remarries or not. When i walked out of the courtroom that day I said that will teach you Yankee. Now I don’t dislike Yankees in general but that is one Yankee who deserved what he got. Just my opinion…now I have go pack my husband and I are going to the Bahamas tomorrow.
Linda
yes I”ve searched the names and dint come up with much except on goins but not on alexander.i was mostly interested on what people here thought about the origins of the wise county melungeons.do you think they are saponi?sara?yuchi?cherokee?portuguese?jew?pamunky?powhatan?whats the theory here if their is one?
Al
Al, Thanks for your efforts on my behalf since I can’t go there and do it myself and sorry for the delayed reply – my PC suffered “pilot error” 🙂 and ‘shot itself’ down.
I doubt that there is any one theory anywhere about ‘melungeons’.
‘Melungeon’ is a prejorative term and was not one with which they self-identified. The most coherent hypothesis which approaches a theory of “origins”, in my opinion, is Pat Spurlock Elder’s “Melungeons: Examining An Appalachian Legend” available from http://www.continuitypress.com and others. Mrs Elder confronts most of the ‘legends’ with facts and genealogy/land/tax records.
As you obviously know, the origin of any family line is specific. One can not ‘lump’ any surname nor ‘split’ them from their related/allied families, i.e., I have Goins and Pennington cousins related through my S.W. Va WRIGHTs who came out of Orange Co., Va., but they may not be related to yours – could be – but we won’t know without researching specific persons. A ‘wright’ was a ‘trade’ and a specific WRIGHT line could lead anywhere.
If you have any dates for the names you previously posted, we’ll attempt to find them.
Caudil/Caudill (and a ‘bunch’ of spelling variations) and Short inquiries can also be found on the Forum by using the ‘search’ button.
Bill
nancy short
born 4-7-1800 probably wilkes county nc
john berry
born 1791 montgomery county va
rebecca thomson
born about 1795 in va
her mother was listed as cherokee,her name was elizabeth moore born before 1775 and married to richard thompson
alexander goins born 1802 in NC
murdered 10 10 1844 stonega va
poem after this called poor goins
he married mary skidmore born about 1805 va
james wright born abt 1766 russell or wise county va his son calvin giles wright born 1826-28 wise county va
he married rebecca pennington born 1826 va whose dad william nelson pennington born 9-24 1806 lee county va
he married delilah caudill born in ky whose dad was william caudill and her mom was nancy craft born 1784 wilkes county nc whose dad was archelous craft also born wilkes county
now william nelson penningtons dad was william pennington born 1765 nc who married abigail caudill born 1768 wilkes county nc(theirs a cousin thing goin on here)
abigails dad was james jr caudill born 1753 lunenburg va.mom supposed to be mary adams born 1753 letcher county ky(this seems a little early for white folks to be in ky???
some of these dates and places may be erroneous.I”ve verified some of these peoples children and grand children in ky graveyards but have only located alexander goins grave in wise county.havent spent much time there.
Al
ps thanks for any help you can give.i just want to establish an indian connection if their is one or prove the rumors false if that be the case.if any of these branches go back to indians let me know and hopefully the tribe,even if it”s an african tribe:-)
Al
Melungeons: Examining An Appalachian Legend
I”ve researched this book and intend to buy it.thanks for the tip and the website.
Al
Al,
A minor point regarding Mary Adams being born in Letcher Co., Ky in 1753.
Not likely, as you know.
All research I’ve found on her says she was born in Wilkes Co., NC, however, due to the time of county formation, Wilkes didn’t exist until 1777, being formed from Rowan and Anson counties at that time.
Same minor point with her marrying James Caudill Jr in 1768 or 1770 Wilkes. This could have been either Surry or Rowan counties at that time. The Adams and “Coddle” people are listed on the 1790 Wilkes Co census. Mary Adams Caudill apparently died in 1792 in Letcher Co., Ky.
The wife of the John Berry you mentioned was Kessiah, b.abt. 1806 Va., and they are living in 1850 Lawrence Co., Ky.
Where did you find Elizabeth Moore listed as Cherokee and is this the same Elizabeth Moore who m’d Richard Thompson and daughter Rebecca was born in Virginia? Is this a document?
Most researchers list the father of the Mary Skidmore who m’d Alexander Goins/Gowens in 1822, as John Skidmore, b.1783, Yadkin NC, d. 1863 Vermillion Co., Indiana. The John Skidmore in Vermillion Co., Ind was born in 1783 in Penn, and his wife Jane was b. 1794 Penn. Their children were b. 1814 to 1823 in Ohio and all children born after 1824 were born in Indiana and don’t appear to have had time to be in NC, so I don’t think this can be Mary’s family.
Lawrence Co., Ky was created in 1822 from Floyd and Greenup counties and Alexander GOWENS family is shown on the 1830 Lawrence Co., Ky census.
The John Skidmore who ended up in Floyd (and was later Carter and Lawrence) Co., Ky, was living in 1820 Floyd Co and in 1810 Knox Co., Ky (many people of Native descent lived in these areas), where in 1810 Knox, coincidentally, there was also an Isaiah GOIN (FPC) living. Prior to the 1820 Knox census, Isaiah was joined by Berry GOINS, who I think was his older brother.
The name Alexander is used often in this line but I can’t show that your Alexander is the possible son of either.
I don’t think this gets you any closer to answering your question but keep digging.
Bill
ID: I2865 Reference Number: 2865 Name: John BERRY Sr. Sex: M Change Date: 30 MAY 2001
Marriage 1 Rebecca THOMPSON
Children
Mary “Polly” BERRY b: ABT 1812
ID: I2866 Reference Number: 2866 Name: Rebecca THOMPSON Sex: F Change Date: 30 MAY 2001
Marriage 1 John BERRY Sr.
Children
Mary “Polly” BERRY b: ABT 1812
Hello,
I found this last night on Ancestry.com. Richard Thompson b. 1742, d. October-1830, m. Margaret Barr b. 1750, d. 1821.
It also shows that Richard may have married a woman by the name of Elizabeth that was a Native American (Cherokee). In one place it had Margaret listed as her daughter.
also listed in census as cherokee,i forget which one.
mary skidmore
Sources:
The Skidmore Family of Rickmansworth Hertfordshire and Rickmansworth Plantation of Kent cty, DE and their descendents of NC, TN and the west. Scudamore/Skidmore Genealogy c.d. copyright 1998 by Warren and William F. Skidmore first ed. Akron, OH and Winchester, TN
LDS internet site, http://www.familysearch.com
1. Mary GOINS was born about 1815 in Virginia. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192). She was buried in Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery, Busseyville, Lawrence County, KY. (Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery Listing Compiled by Beulah Greene and Mary E. Reid)
Mary GOINS had the following children:
2i.Lucy GOINS was born about 1830 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192).
+3ii.Margaret GOINS (born about 1833).
+4iii. Mary Missouri GOINS (born about 1838).
+5iv. Harriet A. GOINS (born on December 15, 1839).
6v. Virginia GOINS was born about 1842 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192).
7vi.Elizabeth GOINS was born about 1847 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192).
SECOND GENERATION
3. Margaret GOINS was born about 1833 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192).
She was married to Kenis M. CHAFFIN. Kenis M. CHAFFIN was born about 1837 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 975) Margaret GOINS and Kenis M. CHAFFIN had the following children:
8i.Alexander CHAFFIN was born about 1858 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 975)
+9ii.Calpurnia CHAFFIN (born on March 21, 1864).
4. Mary Missouri GOINS was born about 1838 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 1180)
Mary Missouri GOINS had the following children:
10i.Laura E. GOINS was born about 1854 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 1180)
11ii.William H. GOINS was born about 1856 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 1180)
12iii.Ida L. GOINS was born about 1859 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 1180)
13iv.George GOINS was born about 1867 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1870 Lawrence County, KY., Precinct 3, Family Unit 82).
5. Harriet A. GOINS was born on December 15, 1839 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1850 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 192). She died on May 21, 1926. She was buried in Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery, Busseyville, Lawrence County, KY. (Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery Listing Compiled by Beulah Greene and Mary E. Reid)
She was married to John William CHAFIN on June 1, 1853 in Lawrence County, KY. (Lawrence County, Kentucky Marriage Permits Filed in Boxes) John William CHAFIN was born on March 16, 1836 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 978). He died on January 25, 1916. He was buried in Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery, Busseyville, Lawrence County, KY. (Yatesville Memorial Gardens Cemetery Listing Compiled by Beulah Greene and Mary E. Reid) Harriet A. GOINS and John William CHAFIN had the following children:
14i.Mary E. CHAFIN was born on March 21, 1856 in Twin Branch, Lawrence County, KY. (Lawrence County, Kentucky Vital Statistics, Births 1856)
15ii.Kenaz CHAFIN was born on June 24, 1859 in Twin Branch, Lawrence County, KY. (Lawrence County, Kentucky Vital Statistics, Births 1859)
16iii.Judith CHAFIN was born about 1862 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1870 Lawrence County, KY., Precinct 3, Family Unit 85).
17iv.Margaret CHAFIN was born about 1864 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1870 Lawrence County, KY., Precinct 3, Family Unit 85).
18 v.Virginia CHAFIN was born about 1867 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1870 Lawrence County, KY., Precinct 3, Family Unit 85).
+19vi.Fred CHAFFIN (born in May 1870).
THIRD GENERATION
9. Calpurnia CHAFFIN was born on March 21, 1864. She died on January 9, 1964.
She was married to Reuben Marion CURNUTTE (son of Reuben CURNUTTE and Zelpha HOLBROOK) on November 30, 1925. Reuben Marion CURNUTTE was born on March 17, 1854 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1860 Lawrence County, KY., Family Unit 233). He died on February 13, 1947.
19. Fred CHAFFIN was born in May 1870 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1870 Lawrence County, KY., Precinct 3, Family Unit 85).
He was married to Alma S. BURCHETT (daughter of Benjamin Franklin BURCHETT and Reva Irene KAZEE) about 1895. (CENSUS: 1900 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct 13, Family Unit 128). Alma S. BURCHETT was born on February 29, 1880 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1900 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct 13, Family Unit 128). She died on March 24, 1925 in Lawrence County, KY. (Kentucky Death Index, Year 1925, Volume 025, Certificate 12455). Fred CHAFFIN and Alma S. BURCHETT had the following children:
20i.Ernest CHAFFIN was born in January 1896 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1900 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct 13, Family Unit 128).
21ii.Irene CHAFFIN was born in December 1898 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1900 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct 13, Family Unit 128).
22iii.John CHAFFIN was born about 1901 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1910 Lawrence County, KY., Magisterial District 8, Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 36).
23iv.Stant CHAFFIN was born on February 12, 1903 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1910 Lawrence County, KY., Magisterial District 8, Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 36). He died on February 3, 1982 in Catlettsburg, Boyd County, KY. (Kentucky Death Index, Year 1982, Volume 004, Certificate 01818)
24v.Harriet CHAFFIN was born about 1907 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1910 Lawrence County, KY., Magisterial District 8, Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 36).
25vi.Bennie CHAFFIN was born about 1909 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1910 Lawrence County, KY., Magisterial District 8, Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 36).
26vii.Mitchell CHAFFIN was born about 1913 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1920 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 106).
27viii.Jennie CHAFFIN was born on April 30, 1915 in Lawrence County, KY. (Kentucky Birth Index, Year 1915, Volume 124, Certificate 61769).
28 ix.Velda CHAFFIN was born about 1915 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1910 Lawrence County, KY., Magisterial District 8, Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 36).
29x.Cuba CHAFFIN was born about 1916 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1920 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 106).
30xi.Edison CHAFFIN was born about 1919 in Kentucky. (CENSUS: 1920 Lawrence County, KY., Twin Branch Precinct, Family Unit 106).
31xii.Willard R. CHAFFIN was born on July 7, 1921 in Lawrence County, KY. (Kentucky Birth Index, Year 1921, Volume 074, Certificate 36934). He died on October 26, 1981. (CD110: Broderbund Software, Inc., Vital Records, Social Security Death Index, 1937-1999, Disk 1)
32xiii.Zella CHAFFIN.
Prepared by:
Gerland Hay
3117 Valleywood Drive
Columbus, OH 43223-3544
gerlandhay@earthlink.netources:
LDS internet site, http://www.familysearch.com (another son was listed as Joseph Skidmore born 1796 in Burks, NC.) This site lists 9 children by John unk male b1804, Joseph b1796, unk female b1800, Marha Patsy b1802, unk female b 1794, James b1798, Margaret b1792, Mary Polly b1805 and Rueben b1811)
The Skidmore Family of Rickmansworth Hertefordshire and Ricmmansworth Plantation of Kent cty, DE and their descendents of NC, TN and the west. Scudamore/Skidmore Genealogy c.d. copyright 1998 by Warren and William F. Skidmore first ed. Akron, OH and Winchester, TN (this source lists 8 children by John; Elijah b1892, Margaret b1894, female b1800, female b1800, James b1798, Martha Patsy b1802, Mary Polly b1805 and William P. b1808)
“John Skidmore is enumerated in Burke County in the 1800 census with four children (a son and three daughters) all under the age of ten. They went by 1802 to KY, stopping no doubt briefly in Lee county, VA. By Sept. 1808 they were in what is now Harlan (then Knox) County, KY where John Skidmore was an appraiser of the estate of William Muncy. Muncy lived on the Cumberland River about four miles below the forks of the mouth of Indian Creek, and John Skidmore was no doubt a near neighbor.
We have a hearsay account of this John Skidmore from his Gowens descnedants. He was, according to them, a slave dealer “of a roving disposition.” This seems to be substantieated by the 1810 census of Knox County when he is found with a family of three sons and tree daughters and 13 slaves who were probably his stock in trade. John Skidmore never made any effort to acquire land and it may be taken as anext to certain that his slaves were not employed by him in agriculture.
John Skidmore’s father is said to have been a Tory during the American Revolution “and in a party sent back to England with General Burgoyne leaving his wife in this country.” This seems to be an exaggeration but there certainly was a cadre of Tories in Yadkin County (his cousin Thomas Skidmore among them) during the war.
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