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I have a question about the souian nations,actually several questions.Were they mound builders at all?I read that the Catawbas were souian and that they built mounds,did the Saponi?Also does anyone know what the full bloods looked like?Tall?short?dark?light?
also I read that the collins (melungeon) from hawkins county tennessee were definitely indian.does anyone know if they were misplaced souian indians or cherokee?
thanks,
Al
“Old” Thomas Collins (d.1732) and his family came out of Orange and Spotsylvania counties, Va in the 1730’s and at least one of his sons and several relatives are documented in a 1742 Orange Co., Va court case as “Makasukaponock Indians” (a ‘Saponi’ village) and his direct descendants were the Collinses of Hancock and Hawkins Co’s., Tenn to which you refer.
Orange & Spotsylvania Counties are in central Virginia. The location and timeframe make a strong arguement that they are Siouan, not Cherokee. My personal opinion about the Cherokee “confusion” about the Collinses (and many others) is that they later lived in an area of S.W. Virginia and N.W. NC which was claimed by the Cherokee as a Hunting Reserve (altho disputed by the U.S.) and may have lived there at the sufferance of the Cherokee or even because Cherokee had married into the Saponi.
There are several historically documented references on this site (use the ‘search’ button and dig them out) about Indians visiting burial mounds in colonial time, which were located in areas of Virginia which were only Siouan.
Bill
When I bought my Hopewell pipe, I looked for information on the culture. I found a web site that identified the Mound Builders as Siouan. Now, I can’t vouch for the reliability of that information, so take this information as it stands.
I also looked at burial methods as I was looking at information on Blackfoot Town to try to identify who those Indians living there might have been. One early document talked about an Indian mound that was at Blackfoot Town. I found information that indicated that the burial methods of the Algonquin, Iroquois and Siouan differed, with the Siouans using mounds.
Techteach
howdy —
I’d second what Bill said — Melungeons are Piedmont Siouan.
As for full bloods — can be tall or short, fat or skinny like everyone else. All are pretty dark complected. Anyone who has light skin and says they are 1/2 Cherokee is feedin’ you a tall tale — and there are people who go around sayin’ that. 🙂
vance
There have been several recent books on the Catawba which include numerous 19th and early 20th century photos of individuals who were claimed as “full-bloods”. they might give you an idea of what some of the Siouan people looked like in the old days. If they were not pure Catawba, they were probably pretty darn close.
A web search for Catawba should provide the info. My copies are at the office and I’m at home at the moment I believe the author’s name is Blumer. It’s NOT the one on Catawba Pottery, but the other one.
Bill, how were you able to establish the relationship between Tom Collins and the Indians in the 1742 Orange Co. Court case? I also think you have the right idea about the “Cherokee” designation business.
Hi Bill,
Sorry, my question should have been clearer. I was aware that there was a John Collins named in that case. How were you able to establish his connection to Tom Collins?
Thanks
This has been on the forum probably more than once but I like it..informative.
http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/CHAPTER1colonial.htm
saj
Originally posted by Bill Childs
” My personal opinion about the Cherokee “confusion” about the Collinses (and many others) is that they later lived in an area of S.W. Virginia and N.W. NC which was claimed by the Cherokee as a Hunting Reserve (altho disputed by the U.S.) and may have lived there at the sufferance of the Cherokee or even because Cherokee had married into the Saponi.
Bill
Bill,
My “hillbilly and proud of it” Momma from Bloody Mingo used to say that all her children looked like Indians, but from diffferent tribes! She also encouraged us when dating seriously to hook up with “our kind of people”– no definintion of what that meant, but she would give us a pronouncement based on her gut feelings. Personally, I think it would be quite likely that mixed bloods migrating further west would have a tendency to marry into other Native or Mixed Blood families in the new area…… No mystery there.
Brenda
Forest,
I’ll amend my earlier statement regarding John being Thomas Collins’s son, to “probable”, as I’m not quite ready to post this research.
Bill
Hello Bill we3ll the discussions of Collins’ and Gibson’s is really great to see.
I would like to know if my families tie into these people you post about.
Thanx to all.
Hi Tom,
Yours were in many of the same places or nearby, at the same times so altho I could not prove it in an absolute sense, it seems likely that they were related.
I’ll pull out what we found and take another look at them.
Bill
Does anyone know if the Southeastern Siouans had settlements in Fauquier County, VA between 1770 and 1800?
Also were they in Franklin County, VA?
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/PageView/04399/0002?id=ecf562e9771aaa19
This is a photo taken in Ontario in 1870 of Nikonha (a.k.a. Waskiteng) who is said to be ‘the last living full-blooded Tutelo’. He was 106 years old when this photo was taken. He fought in the British army under General Joseph Brant during the Revolutionary War, and he is shown here in his military uniform. He was also a native speaker of the Tutelo-Saponi language and was Horatio Hale’s main informant.
Linda posted a picture of Nikohna also, alongside my gggggrandfather who I think looks so much like him. http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=521&perpage=15&pagenumber=5
Brant’s siblings traveled west and settled in northern Ohio with the Senecas of the Sanduskys who were supposed to have been made up, among other tribes, of a many of Logan’s Mingos.
Techteach
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