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Actually, I was raised traditional. We inherited no hatred and we were taught none. I was taught to give my best to those I loved and always treated new company the same way. We treated each other much the way Christ intended his representatives to treat each other but don’t. When I became a Christian I became a savage like the other Christians! No I was not taught these things traditionally as a real human being! Narcissism? Not hardly, not in my traditional culture! Please don’t degrade my culture to make others look better or justifiable! It is not true! My Creator promises to restore all things and I believe he is the supreme God and he will do it soon! I believe that Christ is his son and he has very few true followers that represent his teachings!
I am not degrading anyone’s culture . every culture is just humans… everyone is sinful and sin has it’s roots the deepest in our narcissism? that there is that tree of death /knowledge without GOD deal.
no one has to teach it and no ones culture really unteaches it.. sin is always at the door…knocking knocking.
and true yes he will restore all things and 7x to those who lost something for his names sake. but let’s let him restore it , not us in his name if you know what I mean, because we will not do a good enough job. God bless you graywolf!
“””also somethings to consider to those of us that have ancestors that might appear to be raciest towards indians or seemed to denied their indian side..
it took me awhile to figure out what I had suspected when little from both my great grandma’s that they were ashamed of their indian-ness . but now I understand neither were at all upset with that part in anyway . they just were hidding somethings and hiding from other things and it took years to figure out just what they were so discussed about. .. when in fact they both were just hiding being cherokee not hidding being indians . and plainly disgusted or maybe even afraid about that only . that is what they were both discussed with and why their relations lived in choctaw territory and in AR and MO and IN and Ky and etc …… anyplace but cherokee territory.. it seems it was the whole ugly affair that went on from 1800 through the dawes rolls.
anyway the old ones who had any kind of collective memories of events in those years hated all of it and were very discussed with the whole affair.
so you need to try and figure out why they said things they said.. and if you were reading reaction to any situation wrong when you were young? “””
gray wolf this statement was not to you!
it was to the original poster who asked about why his ancestors were as he thought they were so
raciest towards indians or other indians. what if it was really about fear ?
we can’t judge the heart and words get confused by those hearing if those hearing do not know or understand those words were really laced in fear or hurt or anger or confusion about situations way beyond most those who were the ones run off, had lands stole twice , were cherokee’s/treaty party /old settlers etc etc it was out of their control. what does fear look like in words?
does it somehow look different than a raciest statement?
because it is just as much about what the hearer thinks they hear.
my cousins on my mom’s side said their grandma said that ” we were always cherokee but were not to say that to anyone, they were hidding it” they lived in choctaw territory and claimed to be choctaws. but were only laced with a bit of chickasaw.. and everyone knows there is a little lacing of chickasaw in the cherokee right?
yes it was that line too..
blew my mind , but that statement sure gave me insite into my other great grandma’s statements!
as far as traditional cultures , yes sir it was supposed to be the full blood cherokee traditional’s who who stole all the lands in TX and AR and who then denied citizenship to everyone and murdered everyone else who didnt agree with that ..
ain’t no such thing as an innocent culture graywolf, cultures are made up of sinful selfish and fallible humans.
I would like to point out the truth just for the record. If what you say is true, how come some early Indian cultures existed without words or meanings for “me” or “I” until the Christians came along? I think you are sadly mistaken and simply trying to make non-polluted traditional cultures sinful. My ancestors lived here perfectly well until we were invaded by the loving Christians who even today are stealing Indians blind! I think that early Indian cultures more accurately represented Christ’s teachings than do the Christians. Sin? You bet ya! But by whom? Just stop teaching it to us and represent Christ like he commands. What happened to His commandment? This country does not love Indians but hate’s them! And those Cherokee traditional’s as you call them were introduced to Christianity at least 200 years earlier. So I seriously doubt that they were real traditional’s, please represent it accurately. Get a clear picture of non-polluted culture by reading what George Catlin had to say about my people and then try to condemn us according to your Christian rules. You can’t do it! I think that even Columbus had a similar impression of his early encounters with the Tiano people. There are others too. History not our-story to prove them wrong and us right.
In addition, this is not the “Promised Land” that God once spoke of in the Old Testament. The thieves that are stealing this country are not His “chosen people” that the Bible speaks about. At least Indians are not guilty of misrepresenting the Bible or trying to rewrite it for our own glory as the Christians are. Respectfully, this is not a Sunday school class and I would like people here to get the truth.
George catlin:
I love the people who have always made me welcome to the best they had. Who are honest without laws, who have no jails and no poorhouses. Who keep the commandments without ever having read them or heard them preached from the pulpit. Who never swear, who never take the name of god in vain. Who love their neighbors as they love themselves. Who worship god without a bible, for i believe that god loves them also. Whose religon is all the same, and who are free from religious animosities. Who have never raised a hand against me, or stolen my property, when there was no law to punish for either. Who have never fought a battle with the white men except on their own ground. Who live and keep what is their own without locks and keys. I love all people who do the best they can. And oh, how i love a people who don’t live for the love of money!
Columbus wrote:
They traded with us and gave us everything they had, with good will..they took great delight in pleasing us..They are very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil; nor do they murder or steal..Your highness may believe that in all the world there can be no better people ..They love their neighbours as themselves, and they have the sweetest talk in the world, and are gentle and always laughing.
I believe that is the tiano and not every indian nation! yes first impressions are very deceiving !
so you saying jesus didnt need to die for indians….
oh so” traditonal cherokee” who by the way usually don’t claim” jesus “… were justified because of “christianity “for killing their own?
so isnt that what you are saying?
so I am glad you or yours dont ever sin and never needed a savior …. but jesus said all fall short, so you calling him a liar?
well you know I do need salvation and I desperately need a savior..! and everyone I know does, well if you care enough to look close enough……but first impressions are very deceiving! and passing the blame for personal failure started with Adam!
there is not perfect cullture and some have been are worse to their own than to others… some are worse to others than their own . two sides of the same coin! both are sin!
I think that it is you, that are judging people you never knew. I am not calling anyone a liar, that would be judging! The “first impression” as you call it, is before Christian contact which was my point. I rely heavily on first impressions as the spirit of my Creator guides me and I seldom make a mistake. You are not stating a point, just your opinion! The Bible says to judge not lest ye be judged. I simply quoted what two professional people observed of early native people. Catlin was, I believe referring to the Mandan or another Siouan tribe. If you wish you may call them liars, their dead, and can’t defend themselves. I am just trying to present the truth and not the opinions of Christians or a political party although I think both of those men were Christians. I simply proved your theory wrong! Who accepts Christ is really no ones business from a non-judgmental viewpoint! Christ died for those that want to accept him, not forced to accept him! As for the Cherokee, they knew of Christianity and may very well have felt justified because of Christian teachings, if not resentment and anger for Christianity! However, that is not for me to judge. What Christ says about sin may or may not be true…that is totally his call to make, not yours or mine. For me to assume the judgmental position that you assume, would to me, be sacrilegious. My Creator and your God may very well be different spirits! That is the great part about my Creator, he gives all people the right to make their own choice freely out of love for him. Not by fear or force.
Like I said, the early (unadulterated) Indians more closely represented Christ’s teachings than the Christians then or today. I don’t think that me showing you more quotes by early Christians would change your view. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh! When you point a finger at someone, you always have three pointing back at yourself, Respectfully.
what does this have to do with the point or any point? you sir are judging stuff you don’t know.” traditional” doesn’t make you an innocent! the always stoic and Nobel savage is an invention of liberal arts professors with agendas.
now to the pointb again..
my point was his ancestors may have been afraiid and rightfully so , some ugly stuff went down on all sides .. don’t judge them as raciest when it may have been a justifiable fear of both red and white … as they may have known some things graywolf don’t!
If I were to respond to your post it would simply be an exact repeat of post #54 so to conserve space I won’t do it. If you can address any of my points I will respond. Respectfully
kadasup;22403 wrote: Hello Rockhound:
Sorry for the mix up of information, I’m looking at this post history and realized that you are the one who referred me to Jack Goins…I actually owe you the thanks! I checked out Jack Goins site today and didn’t get a chance to do much reading yet. But it is so interesting!
What I posted for my Adkins Family is all I have. Except for some spouses I have listed for their children, which I will post now.
Judith Adkins + James M. chaffin married June 20, 1833 Lawrence Co., KY
Children of Kenas M. Chaffin (My Ancestors) born 1837 + Margaret Goins born abt. 1833 are as follows:
Calpurnia Chaffin born Mar. 21, 1854
Alexander Goins Chaffin born Nov. 10, 1858
Martha E. Chaffin born Nov. 4, 1856
James M. Chaffin born Jan. 7, 1861
Caroline Lee Chaffin born Jan. 26, 1866
Robert B. Chaffin born Nov. 22, 1871
William G. Chaffin born July 29, 1873
Lucy May Chaffin born 1877
Lucy May chaffin was married 5 times, she was very busy, not only by todays standards but definitely for the time she was born in, tee hee.
Children of John Adkins and Nancy McCracken:
Rachel Adkins + Jesse W. Young married in Lawrence Co., KY on April 12, 1824
Sarah Adkins + Jesse Jordan married in Lawrence Co., KY April 19, 1817
John Adkins + Delilia Jordan marriage date unknown
Thomas Triber Adkins + Jane Ann Parker married Jan. 16, 1847 Lawrence Co., KY
Permelia Adkins + Benjamin Jordan married Mar. 27, 1833 Lawrence Co., KY
So, if anything connects with anybody else let me know!
Bye for now,
Kimberly
Kimberly
Thanks so much for the info! You just gave me more aunts and uncles and another generation of grandparents.I have been out of the loop for awhile and just found my old post googling and seen your reply what?five years later? Hope your still out there.I went to kentucky last year and went to the yatesvill cemetery where many of my goins and chaffins graves are.They were originally buried in chaffin cemetery but that is now under yatesville lake so the whole cemetery was dug up and palced on a hill in yatesville.I can dig the pics out and send em to you if you like.
Al
goins/short/chaffin;35969 wrote: I have all the same ancestry you mention. I am also (along with several others ) working on the Alexander Goins parents. You posted this a long time ago . . . have you made any progress? My line comes from the family of Mary Missouri Goins,who later married James Holly. I am related to the Chaffins through both the Shorts and the Goins families.
Mary Missouri Goins was sister to my gr gr gr granny Harriet Amanda Goins.Harriet married John William Chaffin,he had a daughter name Virginia (Jennie) Chaffin who married Hugh Sparks and had a son Fred Sparks who married Martha Anna (Annie) Wright who had a daughter Leva Sparks Who shacked up with a man named James Hamilton in wv and had a daughter Bell Zora Hamilton who be my Mommy! Hope you get this since I haven’t been on here in sometime.
Al
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