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Do you think these two women listed as Cherokees could be Saponi. My family always said we had Blackfoot/Sioux heritage.
Control Number: NRFF-75-53A-15579
Unit of Description: Item
Record Group Number: 75
Series ID: 53A
Item ID: 15579
Title: Enrollment for Martha Redfearn
General Materials Designator Record Type: Textual Records
Reference Unit: National Archives–Southwest Region
Agency Name: National Archives and Records Administration
Facility Name: Building 1, Dock 1
Address: 501 West Felix Street
City: Fort Worth
State: TX
Zip Code: 76115
Telephone Number: 817-334-5525
Fax Number: 817-334-5621
Organizational Code: NRFF
Creating Organization: Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Scope and Content: Tribe: Cherokee
Type: Parent
Sex: Female
Census Card Number: M2924
Personal Name Reference: Martha Redfearn
Item Count/Item Type: item(s) |c 1
Source Project: Kiosk
Mary Redfern apparently also signed the Dawes and Gillion Miller Rolls during the Trail of Tears. My 5th gr grandmother was Mary Redfearn (Redferne, Redfern) .
Thank you, Larry,
What I was wondering was if Mary Redfern could have been one of the ‘other Blackfoot’ but registered as Cherokee. My family lore says our Indian ancestors were Blackfoot or Sioux which I think fits into the Saponis. Also, they came from the Piedmont and moved from place to place with the Quaker Moon colony.
Sue
Do you think these two women listed as Cherokees could be Saponi. My family always said we had Blackfoot/Sioux heritage.
I’m intrigued by your family stories. Was your family living among the Cherokee? Are these two women the only lines that could be Indian in the family? Are you certain that identification refers to them? What other names are there in the family?
We’ve often found that where you find one Indian line, you find another, then another. Mixed blooded people ran in their own social circle and intermarried.
Where was this family living at the time they reported a Blackfoot/Sioux lineage. It’s very rare, actually, to have the two names placed together like that. I’d like to know more. Although it’s not odd that that name would be stubbornly insisted upon, even in a context in which it’s inconvenient.
Hello Linda,
I do not know if my family was living among the Cherokee. I do not believe that these two women were the only lines that could have been Indian. Yes, the identification refers to them. Other names in the family are Routh/ Ruth, Good/Goode/Goad, Smith and Jones. They married the families Moon, Hammer, Douglas/Douglass, Adamson, Robertson, Gower, Stout, Metcalfe, Leakey and Brown.
Their locations were:
Mary Redfern
b. May 4, 1749 in Randolph, N.C.
d. March 18, 1840 in Henry Co., Indiana
Joseph Routh, Mary’s husband
b. 1747/1747 in Anson or Randolph, N.C.
d. In Jefferson Co., Tenn.
Martha Redfern
b. 1747 in Randolph, N.C.
d. May 7, 1837 Dandridge, in Jefferson Co., Tenn.
Jacob Routh, Martha’s husband
b. 1745 in Randolph, N.C.
d. June 29, 1827 In Jefferson Co., Tenn.
Any idea where could find out more about them?
Sue
Linda;34291 wrote: I’m intrigued by your family stories. Was your family living among the Cherokee? Are these two women the only lines that could be Indian in the family? Are you certain that identification refers to them? What other names are there in the family?
We’ve often found that where you find one Indian line, you find another, then another. Mixed blooded people ran in their own social circle and intermarried.
Where was this family living at the time they reported a Blackfoot/Sioux lineage. It’s very rare, actually, to have the two names placed together like that. I’d like to know more. Although it’s not odd that that name would be stubbornly insisted upon, even in a context in which it’s inconvenient.
Could Blackfoot/Sioux have meant Blackfoot-Siouan? Lot of unusual spelling going on here.
Yes. I’ve come across a few people with family from the VA/NC Piedmont with stories of being Sioux. Spellings wouldn’t really be relevant since these stories predate current spelling conventions.
Sue, the names Smith, Jones and Brown have occurred in families believed to have Saponi descent. You may want to try searching on them here, and see what comes up. Randolph county is in the Piedmont, so it would have been Siouan (Saponi) territory. Searching on that here may also be fruitful.
Do you have a sense of how long this identification, “Blackfoot Sioux” would have been running in your family?
I moved the other posts concerning John Ross et al to another thread. Please try not to hijack threads. Conversations get lost that way.
Hi Linda,
Thank you for your reply. I have tried searching the names Smith, Jones and Brown here without a lot of success. My Jones were in Franklin, Va. Is this also the Piedmont? The Goods were possibly in MOntgomery Co., VA.
The identification, “Blackfoot Sioux” has come down through at least 4-5 generations of my family.
You said you “moved the other posts concerning John Ross et al to another thread. Please try not to hijack threads. Conversations get lost that way.
Sorry if I did something wrong.
Sue
No, it wasn’t you that hijacked the thread. It was the John Ross discussion that was upstaging your questions.
It’s easy to tell if a place is in the Piedmont. If it isn’t the coastal plain and it isn’t the Blue Ridge Mountains, it’s the Piedmont — the hill country that comprises most of Virginia and North Carolina. All I’d do to tell you if it’s Piedmont would be to call up Google maps and see if they’re in the coast or the mountains, and if not, then I’d know they were Piedmont.
I don’t know if you will get any further at ‘documenting’ your names, but your oral history joining the words ‘Blackfoot’ and ‘Sioux’ is significant in my book at supporting my theories on who these people were. Have you seen my article at http://www.saponitown.com/Blackfoot.html
Hi Linda,
I looked at http://www.saponitown.com/Blackfoot.html?, but the server did not find it. Can you give me the name of the article, please?
I’m intrigued by the lost colony of Roanoke and the fact that there were Jones there.
Thank you,
Sue
Oops, that http://www.saponitown.com/Blackfoot.htm
I have a Bennett Smith born abt 1779 we think in Robeson co. nc before coming to Surry co. nc his father was James smith he was call Indian he may have one brother Jacob and probaly a brother named John . many family members have told me that Bennett and all his descendants were and are Native Americans we was almost surely was a lumbee /lumber Indian . But has always been recorded in official documents as white —that is because thay have always looked white .
The records are confused at origin of this line simply for the reason that they were Indians.
there was 2 Bennett Smith in surry co nc at that time .
Bennett died abt. 1916 in surry co.
we have spent maney hours pondering the Cherokee census rolls , but find no evidence that this family was the same as those recorded on the rolls of that tribe .
of 2 of the Bennett Smith in surry co at that time both mens wives were named Mary . one Bennett Smith was a attorney and he moved to Rutherford co. TN. the other on (my Bennett) stay in surry co as you can see it is a brickwall .
I have been reading a lot about Suponi. does anyone have this Bennett Smith in there line and can help on this
thanks
mary gooch
I’m not sure about “Blackfoot Sioux” being the term passed down through the generations of my family. Definitely “Blackfoot” has come down through multiple generations.
My grandmother said her grandfather Dora Moses Cornelius Skinner Smith was 1/4 Blackfoot. The same thing was said by her aunts and cousins.
Mary and Martha Redfern were born in Randolph County (the Piedmont) in the 1740s.
During the Trail of Tears time they were in or near Cherokee territory. The New Echota treaty was signed in 1836 with a deadline to remove to Oklahoma by 1838. Martha died in Tennessee in 1837, Mary in Indiana in 1840. Its possible they were Saponi but also possible they were Cherokee (or a mixture).
Dora MCS Smith’s grandfather David B Smith married Mary Redfern’s granddaughter Harriet Good. What Linda saying about marriage between mixed (or fullblood) people makes a lot of sense here.
Enjoy all the blogs by Marc. Wanted to share what I have found. In my and your case it sounds like we both have people from many countrys that took Indian wifes or husbands. With names like McIntosh, Hicks, Jacobs, Walker and Bennett and many more, we know that these of European and Indian descent were classified as Deer Clan. In Tuscarora or Iroquois tribe these people of mixed race was Called Eel Clan. Many of the 49ers that went to California in the GOLD RUSH days were found to be these Deer Clan Mixed Breeds.
I posted in my blog, but also wanted to post here that according to Rick Haithcock my ancestors who applied to the Cherokee Rolls were in fact Catawba.
I accessed the Redfearn applications to the Guion Miller and Dawes Rolls via Fold3. The Martha & Mary Redfearn listed in the rolls are not the same ones as our ancestors. However, they are in the same location (Tennessee) and appear to be descended from the same Redfearns of Randolph/Anson/Orange NC.
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