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I have read several posts where some of you kinda touch on the subject that we{ SIOUAN PEOPLE } came from Ohio,theres no doubt in my mind that we did come from the Ohio river valley.
I will deal with Language first ,IF you look at the language tree that the experts put together you will see that the the CATAWBAN
Branch consisits of 2 nations the CATAWBA and the WOCCON.
Now if you stay on the same side of the tree and go to the next branch up you will see what the experts call the OHIO VALLEY which consists of 3 nations TUTELO, BILOXI and the OFO or the MOSOPELEA.
I have more that i will post some other time in regards to the OHIO VALLEY SIOUAN.
But now I would like to give you a little oral history from one of my Elders who comes from way up north.
a couple of years ago my Elder was in my neck of the woods and he got to talking to me one day and asked me who my people are,and I told him most of my Ancestors are recognized as SAPONI today, when I said the word Saponi it was like a light went on.
He started telling me in the pre-contact days his ancestors would travel from way up north by canoe to SOUTHERN OHIO to take part in our ceremonies and to trade copper and other valuables for our vegetables and our Tobacco and to share there ceremonies with us. he said also that his ancestors also would trade the Iroquois for there Tobacco and vegetables.
George
Here is some more information on our siouan ancestors in the Ohio River Valley,I will deal with 6 maps that i have in this post .
1 royce map ,2 maps that are from 1755, 1 map that is from 1703,
1 map from 1684,and one map from John Reed Swantons book Indian Tribes of North America.
the first map that i will talk about comes from the Federal Govt,the {Indian Land Claims Commission } the commission was run by a Lady, her name is Erminie Wheeler Voegelin,she was the founder of the american society for ethnohistory,she was also a professor of anthropology and history,anyway the maps involved in this commission are known as Royce maps,I f you look at the Royce map that contains area 87 which is northern ohio,you find a village site listed {as SAPONI } that is dated around 1761-1762 this village site is located on PICKERL CREEK maybe that will help you out.
on one of my 1755 maps it labels the Big Sandy river as the TOTTEROY RIVER now on this same map if you come due west to the next river it labels this river as the LITTLE TOTTEROY,most you I believe know Totteroy =TUTELO.
the 2nd 1755 map that I have labels the Kentucky river as the CATAWBA RIVER.
the next map that I have is a 1703 map which labels the OHIO RIVER as the ACANSEA RIVER , Acansea is an Algonquian word it comes from the Illinois tribe. the Acansea are Siouan people they are part of the Dhegiha siouan,dhegiha is the Dialect they speak.
today the Acansea are known as The Quapaw,today they are out west and they are status people {Federally Recognized},in there oral history they tell of there migration out of the Ohio River Valley ,another point of interest there CLAN system, is Paternal system.the Siouan Nations that speak the DHEGIHA DIALECT that I could find information on ,all have a Paternal Clan sturcture some of these nations have as few as 16 clans and as many as 24.
The 1684 map I have lists 8 village sites in south western Ohio and they are Clearly marked MOSOEPLEA,as I stated in an earlier post the Mosoeplea people are also the OFO people and the Language Experts Define the OFO, TUTELO, BILOXI as OHIO valley Dialects.
the last map I will talk a little about is John R, Swantons map if you look at that map, it Clearly shows the Mosoeplea covering a huge portion of Ohio , Indiana ,Kentucky.
this is a lot of info for one post so i will stop here,I have alot more dealing with the wabash river valley in Indiana and part of our home land which doesn`t get much notice at all which is Kentucky.
maybe i will post more some other time.
George
Please do. This is great information. If there’s any way to get any of those maps scanned and online here, I’d love it. If you want to send a scanned image to me, I’ll compress and resize and whatever so it works online.
Thanks for sharing this.
hi George
i have ancestors on the southern end of the Wabash river but they arrived there about 1800 from i think SW Va, at least from Va & E Tn.
i’d love to hear more about this, too
thank you for posting
vance
Greetings George,
I would be very interested in sharing some information that I have regarding the Ohio Saponi people. I was born in the community of Blackfork which was and still is one of the old souian community’s. My mother’s people are still living there.
I attended the dedication of the Saponi/Tutelo park in Ithaca, New York last year and spoke with some of the elders there who knew of the areas where our people lived and speak of the reservations that were in Ohio prior to Ohio becoming a state in 1803. You may feel free to email me anytime.
May you receive many blessings,
Margaret Jones
Good to see you, Margaret. Long time no see. Could you email me? I don’t think I have a good address for you anymore.
Linda
George thank you for your posts on the Ohio Valley tribes. I am trying to locate my ancestors. We are from Wva. and Kentucky. We live in ohio now, and are having trouble finding any info. Our great great grandmother on our mothers side name was saphronie. Later one of her daughters married a Daniel Green our
great grandfather (materinal). Our fathers family was Ward’s and
Varney’s. Any help would be appreciated. As far as we have found so far saphronie’s were Saponi, but we would like to find out more. Would love any info you have or could find.
Thank you
Lesia Varney
Lesia,
If you have some general information as to area and time frame for your people, I’ll see what I can find for you if you would like.
Bill
Bill,
Thank you very much, I would greatly appreciate any help I could get. My grandmother (maternal) was 82 at her death 2 years ago. I have very little information about her mother. I do know she grow up in Oceanna WVA. My great, great grandparents info is little to say the best. My great, great grandfather was an Irishman, he migrated to as best we can find to Virginia, married an Indian maden and they traveled to WVA. There they had several children. My grandmothers mother married a man named Daniel Green. My great great grandmothers name was saphronie.
The family was so scattered and my grandmother was bedfast and sickly, so getting information from her was difficult. The best time frame we have is somewhere in the mid to late 1800’s.
I could use help just finding a starting point.
Many blessing for you, and again thank you,
lesia
Hi Lesia,
I just wanted to add that your receiving some accurate information from George (Hi George) and you may also want to contact Rick Haithcock, on Ohio Saponi, we are very well documented in this state, there are several resource books that are published to use as a resource in helping you find some family members. Just thought I’d share that with you . Feel free to contact me, I, like George, have far too much to try to include on this reply. I have pictures I would like to share with everyone, however, I don’t have a way to put them on here. (a little computer illiterate)
Many Blessings,
tasheaka
lesia
I have a Collins cousin that was born in Oceanna,West Virginia. I have communicated with him several years and altho I am not completely in agreement with his belief that the Collins line descends from gypsies they still might have been a Gypsy/Indian mixture. Boy , what a combination!
Brenda
Hello Lesia
I know the the surname of WARD as a aboriginal surname ,I know it as a CHEROKEE surname.
I know the surname of GREEN also as a aboriginal surname,I know it as a SIOUAN surname,it is one of the many surnames recognizied by the SAPONI NATION OF OHIO.
Looking at the information you have posted ,I would recommend that you start trying to locate some basic{specific} information on your people the federal census ,birth certificates these might not exist,but there might be death certificates? most of these documents will list other family members?
Its a huge help if you can place your people in a STATE in a COUNTY at some given point in time.
George
LESIA, (and a question for BRENDA)
Was your Grt-Grandmother’s (who marr’d Daniel Green) first name Frances, Jane (Rebecca Jane?), Damanas/Demarine, Cora, Iona or Lovelet ??
These are all daughters of Saphronia COOK, b.abt. 1830 Va (W.Va.) as were her parents. She is the only Saphronia (formal name for the endearment name “Saphronie”) living in West Virginia in 1880. Coincidently, she lived in Oceana, Wyoming County, W.Va.
Please let me know what your Grt-Grandmother’s first and/or last name was. I’ll take a look for Daniel Green and see what his wife’s name is, in the meantime.
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BRENDA,
This Cook family’s close relative Thomas M. Cook, b.abt.1816 Va, (wife Rebecca b.abt.1819 NC) had a William Collins, b.abt. 1825 in Ohio, “visiting” them. Wm Collins marr’d Annie, b.abt.1828 Va. and one dau Mary J., b.abt.1855 was born in Indiana. Does this match any of your Collins?
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If the bestowed names of this Cook family group are any indicator, they are related to the following families :
STEWART, BAILEY, COLLINS, PERRY, BLANKENSHIP, BLACKBURN, GREEN, BROWN, BROWNING, ROBERTSON, BALLARD, THOMPSON.
Some indication that they may also be related to CHAMBERS.
Saphronia Cook’s husband is Isaac Cook, b.abt. 1820, father b.Va., mother b.NC.
Most of these surnames have some Native relationship.
Bill
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