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Although I began reading this forum while trying to track down my Collins family, I’ve since come to realize ALL the names in my grandmother’s family show up here. So here’s an outline.
My grandmother, Chloe Addair Higginbotham, was born in McDowell County, WV, on Horse Creek, about a mile up from the Tug River. She was told by her grandmother, Elizabeth Payne Addair, that her (E.P.A.’s) husband, John Addair, was 1/8 Cherokee. John Addair was born around 1814 in Mingo County, WV (then Cabell Co., VA). His father was also John Addair. Over the years we had no luck tracking that down – first we tried the Cherokee records, since the Adair name is so common there – but nothing fit. When we heard about James Adair, the Indian trader and author, we tried that – no fit there either. What finally made progress were 1847 court papers from Pulaski County, posted on usgenweb by James Trabue
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/va/pulaski/court/adair.txt
that laid out the family relations of a whole pack of Addairs, including our John Addair, his brothers Samuel, William, Moses, Thomas and James, some of whom also show up in McDowell County, their father John Addair, and grandfather James Addair, Sr.
This James Addair (around 1750 to around 1823) turns out to have lived on the New River. He had three wives. Mr. Trabue is descended from the first wife, Annis Harbison, while we’re descended from the (unknown) second wife. Both our families have the story of Cherokee descent. I have no idea who James Addair’s second wife was, or who his son John Addair married, or who James Addair’s parents were. Lots of questions. James Addair has already come up on this forum.
My Collins famlly is the same as Brenda Collins Dillon’s, apparently. My great great great grandfather was John Collins, who our family tradition says married Lydia Tanner, said to be a German woman. Brenda Collins Dillon is descended from his second marriage to Mary Roark (this marriage didn’t make it into our family stories). There are many stories about this couple in my family, but none of them mentioned Indian heritage. I do remember hearing “Black Irish,” and my great grandmother Nancy Collins Addair was said to have had dark curly hair. They (John and Lydia) were said to have moved around a lot – from Tennessee to the Wabash River in Indiana, to the Scioto River in Ohio, to WV. They had children born in Tennessee, Kentucky and Virginia.
There is a marriage record of John Collins and Lydia Toner found in Grainger County, TN, Oct 8, 1821. Griffin Collins was bondsman. Another link to Grainger County is found in the marriage record of his son, John Collins (my great great grandfather) to Mary (Polly) Riffe in Tazewell County, VA: 4/19/1855 John Collin (26) single, born in Granger Co., TN, farmer, son of John Collins and Biddy, and Polly Riffe (21) daughter of William Riffe and Sarah.
So far this is not new information. All I can add comes from looking at census records in Grainger Co., TN. In 1830 and 1840 a Joseph Collins is found next door to a John Tanner (1840)/Tonner(1830). Joseph Collins and his family are listed as free colored persons in 1830, and as white in 1840. Other Collins names nearby on these censuses show the same pattern. John Tanner is listed as white. In 1840 he is listed as a Revolutionary War pensioner, aged 81. According to his pension application (where his name is spelled Tonner and Tonnor) he was born in Maryland, volunteered in Surrey Co. NC, volunteered again in Rowan Co., NC, and moved to Grainger Co., where he lives close to the Hawkins Co. line (so close that he applied for his pension there rather than in Grainger Co.). I have been unable to find anything else about him, aside from a mention of an 1812 Hawkins Co., TN, Chancery Court case – Mafrey Tanner and John Tanner vs. Thomas Brabon and Ryal Jennings – haven’t chased that down yet. Does anyone know how else “Mafrey” might be spelled? Matthew? I’m always excited when I find a name that isn’t John.
Joseph Collins is listed in the 1850 Grainger Co. census, age 76, farmer, (no races listed on this page at all), born SC. At the same address, Nancy Collins, 74, born VA, Polly Collins, 42, born TN. I didn’t find Joseph in the 1860 census, but a Nancy turns up, a widow. A Joseph Collins appears on an 1810 Grainger Co. record (which I failed to take good notes on and now can’t find!) listed as fpc, 9. Brenda Collins Dillon found an affidavit from a Joseph Collins of Grainger County in the RW pension application for Salathiel Martin who appears to be the right age and claims he is well acquainted with Lewis Collins. I haven’t found this affidavit yet – it’s not part of the Salathiel Martin pension application on file at HeritageQuest.
So I’m inclined to think that John Collins and Lydia Tanner probably had something to do with the Joseph Collins and John Tanner/Tonner neighbors found in Grainger Co., but beyond that I am stumped. I know Brenda Collins Dillon believed that John was the son of Meredith Collins, but I haven’t yet figured out where she got that. At any rate he appears to be an East Tennessee Collins.
Other family names: John Collins Jr., my great great grandfather married Mary (Polly) Riffe, who is descended from Sarah Trent, daughter of Frederick Trent. I noticed lots of Trents here.
My great great grandmother Elizabeth Payne Addair’s mother was Susannah Lester, daughter of James Lester. I think I saw Lesters here too. My mother believed the Paynes came from Tennessee too, and may have travelled with the Collins.
I’m beginning to think everyone in McDowell County, WV is linked here, and that what my great great grandmother Elizabeth Payne Addair said about her husband being part Cherokee is just the tip of the iceberg.
I grew up in Middletown, Ohio, with visits to McDowell County, and now live in Ithaca, NY., coincidentally where the Tutelo lived for awhile, until General Sullivan drove them out.
This forum has already really opened my eyes. Thanks!
Barbara
Yes, many of us have gone off looking for ‘the Indian’ in the family only to realize that mixed bloods lived alongside and married other mixed bloods. Plus the obvious issue that if you have one, you have thousands, depending how far back you multiply out the generations.
Do you know of Airy Dixon? He is a leading Saponi historian of Saponi blood himself. He’s there in Ithaca.
I saw his name and picture in the articles about the Tutelo Homecoming, but didn’t know he lived here.
We missed the Homecoming – it was on Yom Kippur, and my family is Jewish. (Been doing my part to mix the blood even more.)
And actually, at that point I hadn’t figure out yet that it might have anything to do with us!
Your Riffe name is of interest to me. It’s a long story but will try to keep it short…ha ha. An Elizabeth Riffe is enuemrated on an early Warren Co., TN Census. My 2nd ggfa was George W. Risner supposed to be born in VA but can’t find any trace of him in Warren Co. as his wife and children all appear there in records. So, I did a line-by-line search of Warren Co. Cen. and found this Elizabeth Riffe (possibly Reiff) who had a son the age of my George in her household. Germans and NA’s had various customs regarding names – NA women often used their maiden name after marriage and German women had a variant of their father’s name. There were also Collins in that same area of Warren Co. of Native Ancestry. It is also fact that on white census’ an Indian husband or wife was not enumerated at all. Just chiming in because I recognized your Riffe surname.
Dear Clydene,
What I know about the Riffe family is pretty much all found in this database – whoever did it has been really thorough:
http://www.coalexchange.com/smith/mcdowella/index3.htm
There are 6 Elizabeth or Eliza Riffes listed there. I’m guessing you’re looking at a census before 1850, since the first name of the son wasn’t listed? That eliminates most of them. This one might fit, and it appears she was in Tennessee at one point:
http://www.coalexchange.com/smith/mcdowella/pafg331.htm#24750
“Peter Cline Sr [Parents] was born in 1756 in Germany. He died in 1840/1850 in Logan Co,WV. He was buried in Delorme,WV. He married Elizabeth “Lizzie” Riffe in Jul 1786 in Montgomery Co,VA.
[Notes]
Elizabeth “Lizzie” Riffe was born in 1750/1760 in VA. She died in 1840/1850 in Logan Co,WV. She was buried in Delorme,WV. She married Peter Cline Sr in Jul 1786 in Montgomery Co,VA.
[Notes]
They had the following children:
M i Jacob Cline was born in 1788.
M ii Michael Cline was born in 1790. He died in 1860.
M iii William “Alum Billy” Cline was born in 1791.
F iv Margaret “Peggy” Cline was born in 1794.
M v Peter Cline Jr. was born before 1793. He died in 1893.”
Here are the notes for Elizabeth:
“Elizabeth “Lizzie” Riffe
1. “Reference Book of Wyoming Co, WV…”, Bowman, page 441.
Peter Cline, Sr. lived on the Kentucky side of Tug River in 1794 at the
mouth of Peter Creek. In 1802 he moved to the West Virginia side of the river. The name of his wife is not known. His known sons were: Michael (married Tazzie Hinkle), Jacob (married ______ Fuller, in KY), William (married_______Weddington of KY) and Peter, Jr married a daughter of Thomas Smith, of Horsepen. Peter, Jr died on Gilbert Creek in 1893, more than one hundred years old.
2. “Wyoming County Heritage”, WGS, Page 11. Peter Cline, Sr, the original settler of Peter Creek in Pike Co, KY, from which it took its name was a German immigrant. He entered this country as a young man at the port of Philadelphia, PA on 7 Oct 1787. He fought in the Revolutionary War with the VA Continental Line with a unit in Dunmore
County. He migrated to western NC, with one son born there, then on to TN and back to VA. he had 5 sons and a daughter: Jacob, born in 1788 in VA; Michael, born in 1790 in NC; William, born in VA in 1791; Peter, Jr, and finally Margaret, born in 1794 in VA.
3. FamilySearch.com, LDS Web Site, Michael Cline search, 31 Dec 2001; submitted by Sandra Lassen, 1499 Lakeside Drive, West Jefferson, NC 28694. Peter Cline, Sr; born in 1756 in Germany, Palatinate Region; died in 1840’s in Logan Co, VA, now Mingo Co, WV; son of Nicholas Cline; married Elizabeth Riffe in Jul 1786 in Montgomery Co, VA.
Elizabeth “Lizzie” Riffe; born in 1750’s in VA; died in 1840’s in Logan Co, VA, now Mingo Co, WV, buried at Delorme or Edgarton, WV.”
I don’t know how she fits in to my Riffes, although she must, somewhere. They are all intermarried with Gibsons, Collins, and Hatfields in southern WV. Mine descend from Gabriel Riffe, Sr., born 1764 in PA. Don’t know if they all do.
There is a book about the Riffes (actually 2 volumes, now):
Reiff to Riffe, Family in America Vol. I and Vol.II
by Fred J. Riffe, Vol. II c. 2002
Ancestors & Descendants of Minnonite Reiff Brothers Hans, John Jacop & Abraham, Reiff,Reif,Rieff,Reif,Rife,Riffe
author’s address: Fred J. Riffe, Box 504324, Marathon, Fl 33050
Email fjriffe at aol dot com (this was in 2004)
I’m working up to ordering it – the author would most likely tell you the location of a library near you that has it, if you can reach him.
Hope this helps!
Barbara
Hello Barbara,
We have Collins and Trent in common. We’re from (and most still live in) Virginia and northern NC. Just saying howdy.
Hello, Beeleaf,
Which branches of the Trents and Collinses do you link to?
I’m starting to think it’s not a family tree, it’s a family web!
Barbara
Hi Barbara,
The Trent line came to me recently from a Daniel cousin & I have not looked at them much. Will have to dig out what has been collected.
Collins line is from Patrick Co. VA and Stokes CO NC–Edward “Ned” Collins (brother of Elisha whose will is often posted and pondered) via his daughter Joanna, who married a Bouldin. My Bouldin and Bowling lines are part of the same bunch, all with Native ties. Edward and Elisha’s father is said to be William Collins, who may have come from Albemarle Co VA or Orange CO NC, or both.
Several children of Elisha (and Ned, too, I think) did wander away to TN, MO, and one ended up in TX.
William Collins’ father or uncle may have been Thomas, but not sure which one.
An 1803 record in the Patrick Co. Order Book mentions Thomas Collings has died and administration of his estate is granted to William Collings. This is most likely the same Thomas Collins on R. Haithcock’s 1782-1785 Pittsylvania Co list of Occaneechi-Saponi and other HOH. (There are 2 Thomas Collins on that list, though, so am not sure which is which. ) It would be the same William Collins on Haithcock’s 1810 list for Patrick Co, since there was only one in PCVA at the time. William’s relation to Thomas is not given.
Also on these lists are Daniel Collins and Elijah Collins. My Bowlings are on there, too. Wondering if these could be part of the Bolin and Collins who wandered to Pittsylvania Co from Orange CO NC with Riddle…
Beeleaf, you are more than a hundred years further back than I can go with the Collins. I’m still trying to figure out which of the Collins in east Tennessee is the one our family descends from. Brenda Collins Dillon thought it was Meridith (who was in VA), but I’m not sure why. Other people say Griffin, based on the marriage bond, I guess. Tracing a John Collins is not obvious – if only our family had gone in for names like Ebenezer!
I called the Hawkins Co. archives last week to try to find out more about the John and Maffrey Tanner court case (since my John Collins married Lydia Tanner in 1821 ) – Jack Goins himself called back (my jaw dropped). He said the court case would not be helpful, and that I should probably come down and spend some time in the Rogersville Library, which sounds delightful. Road trip!
Realistically, though, it sounds like this is not a group of people about whom a lot of documentary evidence is going to turn up. But the search will be enjoyable.
About the Trents all I know is what I reads on the internets. I did enjoy telling the family there might be a Branch branch in the family tree. My brother said now I needed to look for the branch named “Family.” And my sister replied that her brother-in-law’s surname is, in fact, Femily.
Hey Barbara and all,
This could be of interest. It’s from Patrick CO, VA Vitals-Selected Marriage Returns, 1813
Marriage book, pg 262
Henry Oakley intermarried with Sarah Trent on the 26th day of July 1813
Peter Frans
This was transcribed by Mary C. Smith from a photocopy provided by the Patrick County Circuit Court, Stuart VA
Their daughter was born in Tennessee. Possible that other family went there, too.
I have a question: on this type of record, would intermarried be referring to marrying someone from a different religion, different ethnic background, same family? Or all the above. ;~)
Hi, Beeleaf!
You’ve had me wandering in Trent territory since yesterday —-
Looked up intermarried in the OED (the one where you need a magnifying glass and a strong light to read it) and, yeah, it says it can mean all of the above:
1. just marry
2. marry a different tribe, caste, nation or society
3. marry each other (like inbreed)
So who knows what they meant in Patrick Co. in 1813? I wonder if the other records from that year, or that minister, have the same phrase.
Have you looked at the Trent forum on Genforums? There’s WAY too much there. They have the Sarah Trent who married Henry Oakley as a daughter of Field Trent (c. 1770-1837) and Sarah King (c. 1777-1882(?)-dates a bit iffy, but hey… Native American connections seem to come up several places in that forum.
Are your Trents related to your Bryants? Cause someone there seems to think my Frederick Trent is the illegitimate son of Nancy P. Trent, who was daughter of William E. Trent Jr. and Sarah “Susannah” Bryant. I really don’t know diddley squat about these folks, but it’s fun to speculate. Another descendant of Fred’s says the family is gypsy.
Hey Barbara,
Good point. It may have just been another way of saying married that year. Before and after then they seem to have just said married. Still looking for more info.
Yes, have looked around those forums. Looks like Trent is another one of those suspenseful surnames.
An Alexander in almost every family.
Field T. and Sarah King are my line. Sarah was the daughter of Zachariah, who appears to be the same fellow mentioned in Jack Goins’ stuff. Executor of Thomas Gibson’s will, neighbor of John Goins, etc.
Field’s father Alexander was supposed to have married an Indian woman, but possibly two other women also…all who may have been named Elizabeth? Whee.
Daughter from this line married a Daniel, which enabled me to meet another relative on this forum. ;~)
We may never know anything, but it’s cool to keep bumping into one another in the circle of confusion.
I did see a Trent-Bryant connection on a tree someone posted. Going to put that in a separate reply for clarity.
aforementioned family tree is posted here:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=ht1642&id=I585
(am not seeing any sources of info, but did notice the Branch branch early on. grin)
Pertinent snippet:
20. William Trent (William Trent3, Henry Trent2, Henry Trent1) was born Abt 1715 in , Henrico, Virginia, United States, and died Abt 1797 in , Hawkins, Tennessee, United States. He married Sarah Bryant Abt 1758. She died Abt 1815. Children of William Trent and Sarah Bryant are: + 44 i. Bryant Trent was born 1763 in , , Virginia, United States, and died 1836 in , Green, Kentucky, United States. 45 ii. John Trent was born Abt 1765 in , Tazewell, Virginia, United States, and died 1824 in , Tazewell, Virginia, United States. 46 iii. Alexander Trent was born 1766 in , , Virginia, United States, and died 1845 in , Barren, Kentucky, United States. He married Nancy 13 Mar 1824 in , Mercer, Kentucky, United States. She was born Bet 1774 and 1784, and died Bet 1820 and 1830 in , Barren, Kentucky, United States. + 47 iv. Williamson Trent was born Abt 1772 in , , Virginia, United States, and died 24 Mar 1845 in Manito, Mason, Illinois, United States. 48 v. Fredrick Trent was born Bef 1774, and died Aft 1827 in , Tazewell, Virginia, United States. He married Lydia. 49 vi. Molly Trent was born 1775 in , , Virginia, United States. She married William Blankenship Aft 1807, son of Isham Blankenship and Sarah Wilkinson. He was born Abt 1761, and died 1844. 50 vii. Nancy Trent was born Aft 1780 in , , Virginia, United States, and died 1834 in , Barren, Kentucky, United States.
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