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cherosage wrote: I have a friend who told me she found some of our Howards and she learned that Allen served in the Revolution. On his paper work the Catawba were mentioned. She said she was unable to make out what was on the paper.
Hi cherosage,
I have access to some of the Revolutionary Pensions through HeritageQuest. If you don’t already have a copy of Allen Howard’s papers and want a copy, just let me know. I can download it and send it to you. It is 10 pages long and would be in PDF format.
I skimmed through it and found mention of Catawba and I believe it was talking about the Catawba River. It says:
…Col. Buton sent for Col. Phil(?) Hawkins to come and aprehend(?) in the Examination of said Prisoner – upon this investigation and by his own statement which I heard it appraud(?) that he was a native of Guilford County North Carolina – that he had left home and went to the British on the Catawba in the fall of 1780 immediately(sp?) after the defeat of Gen’l Gates…
Stacey
stacey.23 wrote: Hi, If this is the quote you are looking for, it came from the Calendar of State Papers…
Calendar of Virginia State Papers and Other Manuscripts: 1652-1781, Preserved in the Capitol at Richmond By Virginia, William Pitt Palmer, Sherwin McRae, Raleigh Edward Colston, Henry W. Flournoy
Published by R.F. Walker, 1875
Page 215
Stacey
Yea I had the source for that one….I had the source at the end of it.
http://aventfamily.org/ltr.htm
You can see the document there.
But some of the other stuff I posted I did not have sources for.
I’m actually still looking for information on the “Saponi reservation” in hillsborro, nc…..I’ve never been able to find anything on a reservation even being in Hillsboro.
But I have found this:
1750: The Saponia Indian reservation established near Hillsboro, North Carolina.
Here is another thing I’m still researching also:
John Johnson (Johnston) settled in Bertie and established a large
plantation called “Saponia” which was adjacent to the Indian Reservation. He was the brother of Samuel Johnston, Governor of the
colony of Carolina, and Brother to Hannah Johnston – who married James
Iredel who became the first chief Justice of the NC Supreme Court during
the Revolutionary War. John became a noted Bertie County Clerk of
Court. He was NOT Indian, nor did he in any way descend from Indians.
Why did Johnson start a plantation in Bertie county, nc and give it the name of Saponi?
Ga-Nc Collins wrote: I’m actually still looking for information on the “Saponi reservation” in hillsborro, nc…..I’ve never been able to find anything on a reservation even being in Hillsboro.
But I have found this:
1750: The Saponia Indian reservation established near Hillsboro, North Carolina.
I didn’t find much, but here is what I have come up with so far…
I found this exact quote was from Jack Goins webpage (http://www.jgoins.com/webtimeline.htm). At the top of the page titled TimeLine Research, it says Penny Ferguson pennyferguson@alltel.net
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:0He5oH0hv4oJ:www.lib.unc.edu/ncc/ref/na/occaneechi.html
Newspaper Articles
“Indian Village May Have Been Found.” Durham Sun (Durham, N.C.), 21 September 1983. North Carolina Collection Clipping File, 1976-1989, reel 10, p. 173. On the “lost Indian village of Occaneechi” near Hillsborough. CR917 N87
http://www.fialcowitz.com/bunch/other9.html
The Melungeons began selling their land on the Flat River in Orange County beginning about 1767 and moved to the back woods section of the New River in Virginia and North Carolina. They moved from the Pamunkey River area of Virginia to the Flat River beginning in about 1747-9. These families included Collins, Gibson, Bunch, Bolen, and possibly Moses Riddle. They were of the Baptist faith, some joined at Stony Creek by letter from another Baptist Church.
According to North Carolina records, the Saponi Indians had a settlement about 15 miles east of Hillsboro, county seat for Orange County, North Carolina … According to their settlement location, the Saponi would probably be near the Flat River. …
The following Saponi information is from a Saponi chronology compiled from an Eno-Occoneechee petition for recognition by the State of North Carolina-1750. The Saponi had a settlement near Hillsboro, North Carolina. Post Revolutionary Pleasant Grove region Saponi Indians Jeramiah Bunch, George Gibson, and Henry Bunch received land grants in 1785 along the Eno River just east of Hillsboro, North Carolina.
pp. 84-85
Stacey
Ga-Nc Collins wrote: Here is another thing I’m still researching also:
John Johnson (Johnston) settled in Bertie and established a large
plantation called “Saponia” which was adjacent to the Indian Reservation. He was the brother of Samuel Johnston, Governor of the
colony of Carolina, and Brother to Hannah Johnston – who married James
Iredel who became the first chief Justice of the NC Supreme Court during
the Revolutionary War. John became a noted Bertie County Clerk of
Court. He was NOT Indian, nor did he in any way descend from Indians.
Why did Johnson start a plantation in Bertie county, nc and give it the name of Saponi?
I am not sure why he would name his plantation Saponia, maybe because they were nearby??? I did find several places online where John Johnson/Johnston with a plantation named Saponia was mentioned, but they all lead back to a thread written by Harry Thompson.
From: “Harry L.Thompson“
Subject: [NCBERTIE] Johnson
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:32 -0500
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ncbertie/2001-02/0983367092
On Bertie County’s Rootsweb page it says:
Research from Bertie-L Mailing List
There are varying opinions represented on our Bertie Mailing List, so these comments are meant to be suggestions for further research only! Investigate and make your own determination!
and then goes on to mention the thread above.
Have you tried contacting Harry Thompson or trying to get early land records? Maybe, one of them might hold clues. Could John Johnson’s wife have had ties to the Saponi? Could something/clue be in his will? According to an online tree it was probated 2-1790.
Here are some dates to keep in mind for Bertie County…
1664-1668 Albemarle County
1668-1722 Chowan County
1722 – Bertie County formed from Chowan
1729 – Tyrrell taken out of eastern Bertie
1741 – Edgecombe taken out of southwestern Bertie
1741 – Northampton taken out of northwestern Bertie
1759 – Hertford taken from northern Bertie *This line changed again in 1877 and once again in 1907.
(Taken from http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncbertie/)
Stacey
Ga-Nc Collins wrote: John Johnson (Johnston) settled in Bertie and established a large plantation called “Saponia” which was adjacent to the Indian Reservation.
I know that reservation in Bertie County wasn’t what you were asking for, but just to kind of “tie” things together, could it have been referring to Indian Woods? A quick search on Saponitown found 87 matches for “Indian Woods” with at least 8 of them having matches with “Indian Woods” and Johnson.
http://www.saponitown.com/timeline.htm
1709 some of the Occaneechi, Saponi and Tutelo moved to Saponitown near Winsdor NC (Indian Woods). (Video ) Called Sapona on P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke
http://www.saponitown.com/Saponi.htm
According to Swanton, They evidently crossed the Roanoke River before the Tuscarora War of 1711, establishing themselves a short distance east of it and 15 miles west of the present Windsor, Bertie County, N. C.
Mapquest can’t find Indian Woods, but Google Maps does. You can see Indian Woods Rd. connects Cahaba to Quitsna to Grabtown. And, it looks to be 10-15 miles west of Windsor, per the description from Swanton above.
Stacey
Here is what I have in my time line for Windsor.
1701-1709:
After John Lawson’s visit to Sapona Village around Febuary 1701, the Saponi and Tutelo left their villages behind.
The Siouan tribes had been getting attacked from the North and South Iroqious tribes.
These 2 tribes moved Eastward and the Saponi creek near Nashville NC probally shows the path they took. Occaneechi and the other allied tribes followed. They was all moving toward the settler’s settlements so Saponi village was no longer safe.
They crossed the Roanoak river before the Tuskarora war of 1711.
Their new Village was called Sapona townn. The Location was slightly East of roanoak river and about 15 miles westward from Windsor in Bertie county NC.
I think Indian Woods may be what was being talked about.
This is all great Saponi info….is there a way we can compile it all with references in one spot? I am not technically inclined…let alone organized, but would help whoever would want to take it on…:)
Shirley
I’ve got a pdf file with a huge time line of the saponi.
I’ve even went on photoshop and marked the various locations the Saponi was found on a map of Va and NC.
Ga-Nc Collins wrote: I’ve got a pdf file with a huge time line of the saponi.
I’ve even went on photoshop and marked the various locations the Saponi was found on a map of Va and NC.
Joseph,
You should talk to Linda and see…if you are willing…to put a link to this info on the main page??
I found this site when I located a cousin, who said Martin Gibson was Saponi…but I needed a lot of help, which I found here and had to sift though oodles of threads to find what I needed to authenticate it…It would be awesome to have it all in “one ” place:)
Blessings,
Shirley
stacey.23 wrote: Hi cherosage,
I have access to some of the Revolutionary Pensions through HeritageQuest. If you don’t already have a copy of Allen Howard’s papers and want a copy, just let me know. I can download it and send it to you. It is 10 pages long and would be in PDF format.
I skimmed through it and found mention of Catawba and I believe it was talking about the Catawba River. It says:
Stacey
Hey there Stacy. I would greatly welcome any info you may have about this family. I know that Sue, saj, would like to have some of this info as well as I since she is from Allens line. Allen was an older brother to my Henry Groves Howard. The were full brothers. I don’t know what this PDF Format means but I would like to try it. dwoolery@aol.com
Sue do you have any of this info in your library?
Thanks, Bob
http://www.geocities.com/manahoac_saponi/
There is the map I map…..I need to go and put a mark on Amelia county also.
Here is the time line I have.
http://www.geocities.com/manahoac_saponi/Timeline.Html
cherosage wrote: Hey there Stacy. I would greatly welcome any info you may have about this family. I know that Sue, saj, would like to have some of this info as well as I since she is from Allens line. Allen was an older brother to my Henry Groves Howard. The were full brothers. I don’t know what this PDF Format means but I would like to try it. dwoolery@aol.com
Sue do you have any of this info in your library?
Thanks, Bob
Hi Bob,
I just sent Allen Howard’s file to you. Let me know if you have any problems receiving it.
Stacey
Thanks, Stacey. I received it and it was great. The hand writing was hard for me to decipher in many places. There is no reference about his race. The Henry Groves Howard is the line I am down from. I’m not sure what Sue has on this but I am glad to know this info. I have many ancestors from this area and they all moved west. Many came west around the same era settleing in the Central MO area.
Again Thanks for this e-mail.
Bob
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