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I was raised to believe there was blackfoot/seneca american indian in our genealogy. I have had no idea how Seneca from New York and Blackfoot from Montana could possible fit intell I happened on to Saponi Town on the internet. Finally!! But I need LOTS of HELP!!!!
I will start with Robert Bell b abt 1772 Virginia m Jane Anderson b 1780 PA/Virginia, married 8 May 1797 Monongalia County, W. Virginia according to internet. In their journey from Virginia they traveled through Kentucky, Tennessee, and Indiana according to census records. We have proof they settled (1832) and died in Missouri twp., Section 28, Brown County, Illinois. Their daughter is the “Bell” that our family belief goes back to. Her name Catherine Bell b Ky/Virginia ? abt 1797 married Thomas I. Beard/Baird b Ky ? in Ohio County, Kentucky 1 August 1814. He served in the War of 1812 from Kentucky. He came to Missouri twp., Section 32, Brown County, Illinois in 1832. He died about 1864. His wife, several years later. Their son: John Fleming Baird b 2 November 1829, Morgan County, Illinois; m Sarah Annis Parke on 1 May 1861 in Brown County, Illinois.; he died 4 October 1901 in Quincy, Adams County, Illinois. For two generations after this the family is in Morgan County, Illinois. Sarah Annis Parke’s father Benoni R. Parke was born 28 July 1803 in Madison County, Kentucky as was his wife Sally Ann Dalton. They are listed on the 1841 Mt. Sterling, Brown County, Illinois Census record also. Such a CLOSE FAMILY!! THEY REALLY STUCK TOGETHER THAT’S FORSURE. So where do I go from here? And where does the Tuscarora Path lie? Thanks for ANY HELP you may have! brockwaybarb
Welcome,
The Tuscarora Path is in southcentral Pennsylvania, running generally north (Kittanning valley) and south (Adams/Franklin Co’s). It connects to a network/system of paths (trails) in Penn. and points south. After 1754 it was generally refered to as “Path Valley”.
If you do a ‘google’ search on ‘tuscarora path’, there are some specific descriptions of its location and even maps of the Path system.
What help are you looking for on your genealogy?
Bill
Thanks! The help that I would appreciate would include 1. proving the marriage date 8 May 1797, Monongalia Co., W. VA, of Robert Bell and Jane Anderson 2. When /Where was their daughter Catherine Bell born. Was it in Monongalia Co., VA or could it have been in Logan County, Kentucky on the Gasper River where there is a Robert Bell listed with 200 acres on 9/21/1797 and a Thomas Beard with 400 acres on 11/2/1807 same County, same Gasper River. And if these are from a land grant how/where can I find their war records? (Catherine married a Thomas Beard) This one could have been his father or grandfather? Down the road the family always stuck together so I am inclined to look for these family group’s TOGETHER! 3. I KNOW that Catherine was Blackfoot/Seneca would either of the above places fit with that indian ancestry? 4. On my cherokee side (enrolled now) the white man from Scotland married the indian. Is that true of blackfoot/Seneca or Saponi also? Guess that is it for now thankyou again I hope this is what you were asking I am new at this please bare with me. Brockwaybarb
hello Well Several things here is very interesting, Bell is still a common last name amongst the Iroquoian people, Monongahelia looks very simalar to your spellings, also there is a MUNONGOHALLAH also Monongakaly as a virginia place name.
This name may be the origins of the name Mulhalla, etc.
Lastly you have Cherokee heritage aswell, nicely supporting the ID, as ‘Blackfoot Cherokeee”!
Welcome once again!
Brockwaybarb,
1) The 8 March 1797 marriage date for Robert Bell and Jane Anderson is online at ancestry.com’s database “Virginia Marriages 1740-1850” listing them married in Monongalia Co., Va (now WVa). Ancestry.com’s source is “Early American Marriages: Virginia to 1850” by Jordan R. Dodd, et.al., c. Precision Indexing Publishers.
(Note: The only other Bell marriage was Ann Bell m’d Henry Weaver on 12 Sep 1803 in Monongalia County and there are no other Anderson marriages listed but Jane’s.
The 1850 Brown Co., Ill census lists Jane’s birthplace as “Pa” and Catherine’s as “Va”.
2) Can’t say that the older Thomas Beard of 1797 is related to your Thomas.
Something to consider:
There is a James “Baird” on the Ohio Co., Ky Tax Records (index) dated 9/10/1800.
On the 1810 Ohio Co census, “James Baird Senr.” is over 45 yrs old and has a younger male age 16 to 25 in his household.
On the 1820 Ohio Co census, all on page 9:
line 21 is “James Beard”, over 45.
line 27 is “Thomas Beard”, age 26 to 44. presumed wife is 16 to 25. One son and 2 daughters under 10 are listed.
line 28 is “James Beard Junr”, age 26 to 44.
3) People of Blackfoot identification were/are in Pa, WV, Va, Ky and other locations. Some Seneca were in Pa, Oh, (maybe WV), and points further west.
4) There is no known rule of love prohibiting Native men from falling in love with white women, some of whom I’ve heard, fall for the “tall, dark and handsome” 🙂
Bill
Bill, THANK YOU SO MUCH everything you gave me is exactially what I was asking for. Wow a guy that really listen’s! ha! ha!
You gave me the documentation I have been looking for. Also it help’s to see through another’s eye’s which is how I felt as I read your reply. So basically are you saying that if we can document that Thomas had history in Ohio County, Kentucky then look there for his family (parentage), not in another county? Inless the counties changed ofcourse. The cherokee is on my mother’s side the seneca/blackfoot is on my father’s side but anything is possible. Thank you again so much Bill! Brockwaybarb
Tom, So what are you telling me with all those “big” M names? Are you saying to look for Robert Bell in these places? Are you just making a comment? Are these places that blackfoot are known to have been in? What? (Remember one of us is from Venus and one is from Mars! ha! ha! Nothing personal!) My mom’s family was Cherokee and my dad’s was seneca/blackfoot and I’ve never heard reference to Blackfoot/Cherokee in our family but anything is possible. Lastly, Thank you Tom for your reply and I appreciate you informing me that “Bell” is still a common last name amongst Iroquoian people because that is what I have been waiting to hear for years! Now I want to go the next step and have you teach/tell me everything you know about that subject. How do you know that? Where did you know that from? I’m like a sponge! Thanks Tom, Brockwaybarb
Brockway Barb,
I can tell you that part of what Tom is saying is that lots of us have the story of being “Blackfoot Cherokee.” I do. Only my folks did not live in the area of the Cherokee.
Techteach
Brockwaybarb,
Ditto Tom’s line of inquiry.
Ditto Techteach’s implication.
Techteach’s implication can be extended to include the possiblility that a person identifying as a Blackfoot/Seneca may be a Tutelo adopted by the Seneca/Cayuga having migrated to W.Pa into WV/Ohio, that retained a “Blackfoot” identification, and/or that I.D. combination may have occurred in the north (Pa/NY) around the 1750s time period and then been ‘carried down’ from that period? Something to consider.
Same as Techteach’s “Sinekers”? Something to consider and then research further? ‘Dunno’.
This general supposition/near-concept, needs further looking into.
Bill
So then how do I do that? How do I look further into it Bill? Where do I go from here? Thanks, Brockwaybarb
Brockway Barb:
I don’t have an answer on finding that out. I tried sending a part of a song sung by the descendent to a linguist who specializes in language the Tutelo spoke. No luck. I have always wondered if the Cherokee part came from simply the assumption that since both the Cherokee and northern Iroquois tribes spoke Iroquois (my folks took the northern PA, OH route), they called themselves Cherokee, since they were considered a tame tribe.
You might search this forum for “Senecas of the Sandusky.” They were a group in northern OH who were believed to have been refugees of dispersed tribes, including Logan’s Mingo tribe. The Mingo were believed by some to be a mixed tribe made of Seneca adoptees (other tribes conquered by the Seneca and then adopted). Some of my folks were known to have lived among them in OH. I also found that my Blackfoot ancestor came from an area of known Mingo towns. The Mingo were considered by George Washington in his writings as Seneca.
Anyway, a couple years ago, Linda told of a person describing a road marker in WVA that identified the “Blackfoot of the Seneca.”
Techteach
Techteach- Thank you again for all your help and patience, I am starting to get it. You have given me new direction and I’m off!
Brockwaybarb
hello well Brock you are well on your way to some great reseacrh, I live in canada and have been apart of Indian country for many years now.
The Cherokee addition to much of our oral history is very interesting, one item I had found is that the Creek People called everyone north of them “Cherokees” Chilokis, the Choctaws in louisiana called everyone else (even southern Choctaws) Atakapa or “man eaters”, so maybe the northern tribes above the virginias called all southerners Cherokees, just a guess, something to consider though.
I often hear the last name Bell amongst the Brantford Ontario Six Nations.
Best Wishes Tom
howdy Brockwaybarb,
In your original post you said —
In their journey from Virginia they traveled through Kentucky, Tennessee, and Indiana according to census records.
reply —
Did a census record put your people in Indiana? Which county/ies and what time frame? Which surnames?
The Cherokee language is said to be only distantly related to Iriquois. Linguists have said the 2 separated probably about 3,000 years ago. I know many believe the separation was more recent, so . . .
Can you trace any ancestor back to where the Cherokee lived — SE Tn, NE Al, NW Ga, SW NC? From the mid 1770s to the mid 1790s some Cherokee migrated N to the Scioto River in Ohio, but history records that they returned to the Cherokee Nation at that time. From the mid 1790s to 1811 some Cherokee migrated to SE Missouri. They all went to Arkansas after that until 1828, and after that to Oklahoma. All those in Mo went to Ar, and most of those in Ar to Ok after that. Many websites that proclaim otherwise are wrong, and are nonsense. Most of those left behind married Caucasians and chose to leave the Nation.
If your “Blackfoot” ancestors were Saponi/Piedmont Siouan they probably came from NC or Va.
I had never heard of the term “Eastern Blackfoot”, “Melungeon”, or “Saponi” — until I started researching the internet. But I was told one side of my family was Cherokee (Brown/Black/Guess) and another side was “Indian-mixed” (Richey/Wayland/Wood/Dickson/Hamilton/Stuart/Gibson) but I didn’t know what tribe/tribes. But I have found out several surnames go back towards Melungeons and other Piedmont Siouan. I had no idea the research would all fall back to this location (SW Va mostly) or to these people.
Don’t expect answers right away, don’t be afraid to realize you might be wrong and start over, and follow the evidence whether it leads you where you expect it to go or not.
Good to meet you, and good luck.
Vance
This thread connects with my family. Blackfoot oral history on my grandmothers side. A tradition of men named Seneca on my grandfathers side. Kind of like Brockwaybarb. My grandfathers paternal side originates from the same mid 1700s PA area. All of the other lines go back to NC/VA or the same PA area if they can be traced back that far. If they can’t they end in SW Ohio or Western PA. Genealogy is limited especially for female ancestry.
Early on in learning I thought there was a possibility Blackfoot might include Cherokee because of a name on the Cherokee Rolls. But it was a rejection, likely because they were Catawba judging by Haithcock research. My grandmothers parents and my grandfathers mother all lead back to Saponi, Tutelo or Catawba territory. Some Catawba were adopted into the Cherokee, I wonder if that is one origin of Blackfoot Cherokee ID.
DNA has been the best clue I’ve found so far. So many DNA cousins lead me back to other family threads here that are not names I knew through genealogy. Shared DNA with TechTeach and Vivian Markley whose stories are so much like my families is further proof. From genealogy I was able to see common ancestors with people like Linda and see links to Buck a Haudenosaunee/Six Nations family name up here in Ontario, like Tom mentions.
The Indian-mixed ID Vance mentions is one that I am trying to better understand. Studying the trading paths and settlements of 1700s PA is the best clue I have found so far. There were a number of mixed bloods, tribes and remnants coming together and splitting off during this time. There is no oral history on my grandfathers side, yet their actions spoke.
Like BrockwayBarb many of my grandfathers families were close. When I go back and look at all the Nations and Tribes of Turtle Island that I connect to an Indian-mixed ID makes more sene. Language-wise Tutelo Saponi and Catawba are Siouan, Seneca and the Cayuga who adopted the Tutelo are Iroquoian. Where I live is Algonquian speakers.
The more language groups an area has the more culturally advanced it is. More people seem to be realizing this fact and working harder to preserve languages like Cayuga or revive languages like Tutelo. If you like at the densest area of language groups in the world it is Africa.
Going back far enough we are all connected. Its been said that a squirrel could travel from the mouth of the St Lawrence to the mouth of the Mississippi without touching the ground 500 years ago. 1700 years ago the Romans said the same basic thing about the Germans.
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