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Well, the issue of toplessness is perpexling. . .
Felicia has done something interesting using an apron type garment similar to what’s documents, over a colonial style skirt. She fringed it with feathers (something documented we did) as well as the skirt. Really great, graceful, authentic looking detail. There are some old threads on all this I should bring forward. Members here have done a lot of research on this issue.
Here’s an 11 page thread that will keep you busy for awhile. I just made it sticky.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1705
In general, search through the “Material Culture” section. You can set it at the bottom to show everything from the beginning of time, or at least the beginning of time here on the forum.
For one thing, and this is my personal opinion, you should decide by which time era you want to pattern your regalia. Pre-contact regalia would be very different than post-contact regalia. My regalia is post-contact, from I would describe as a southern Person county farm wife with native roots. It’s more 1850s/1860s cloth style. My new skirt, when I get it fixed, will use a quilt top that has been handed down for several generations. You have to get your mindset from what would have been available to use in that time period. Good Luck!!
I have a description of the regalia pictured here in the clothing thread.
OK, I have a big (?). IF I should ever, and I mean IF, show up and just wear my front apron how many of you girls out there would wear just your skirt?
Now mind you I did say “IF”.
Bob
If it were a native only gathering and I had enough shell necklaces, and others were going tradish, I would.
Some folks here have a more contemporary traditional outfit. They may mix styles of different tribes, even non-Indian backgrounds, or try to come up with new interpretations of old styles. Others refuse to mix styles and stick to older ways. Theres a revival of older dance styles now.
I like the description of what the ladies were wearing in spring of 1716. Blankets around the waist and a mantle made of 2 deer hides. I guess “mantle” means “cape”. I can see them wearing wool trade cloth in April, not July.
I was thinking of a simple blue/red wool skirt, a black or dark blue t-shirt just to stay legal, and necklaces of white shells would look good with a dark background. Then a short “mantle” or capelet of wool or leather to cover the shoulders. It would tie in front. For the heat, you could use cotton instead of wool, but I have wool coming out of my ears, and it wears well here. I tried making a cotton one several years ago, but it never worked out. I was going to decorate it with a couple dozen mallard scalps.
I’ve got a pile of old shell buttons that have been in my family since the 1800’s. I was thinking of decorating the outfit with that, but I haven’t read about any of them using buttons. I’m sure they would have used them if they had them though. A friend made some replica copper beads for me, but I think thats more 1600’s era. I read that the value of copper plunged soon after the English flooded the market with it, then the tribes went to working silver after that.
I know they went barefoot sometimes, but I’d wear mocs (center seam?) if needed. I’d also have a turkey wing fan, no shawl, and I could weave my own purse with wool yarn and hemp. I know what kind of weaving was done from impressions in clay pottery, but I’d have to be creative with the design. Anyone know of any Saponi/Virignia Indians doing basketry?
Now if only I could sew….
cherosage;33616 wrote: OK, I have a big (?). IF I should ever, and I mean IF, show up and just wear my front apron how many of you girls out there would wear just your skirt?
Now mind you I did say “IF”.
Bob
My limited experience with pow wows….there are many there that do not understand the significance of the dance or the circle…It was very powerful for me…and we could have all been in our traditional wear and “I” wouldn’t have noticed…
My comment was for simply humor. I remember one time at a Dance when I was a LOT younger a stranger, man, was dancing in his dance cloths. It didn’t take long for everyone to realize that he had nothing on under his aprons. It didn’t take long for many of the elder Ladies to make their presence known. He was surrounded and escorted from the arena, not a pleasant sight. They were not very kind about it. Aunt Polly Whitebird and Maude, Midge and Mary wore his ears out both physically and emotionally. I have never seen this man ever dance again, in fact I don’t recall ever even seeing him again.
I don’t think I would EVER go to a dance and dance without all of my outfit. You might say I dress to the Nines. I have been taught that when we dance we represent our WHOLE family.
Yep, I understood that….and chuckled to think of some of us ladies out there like that…might cause an earthquake..LOL. And as age progresses, it’s just harder to keep the gravity thing at bay….
I know what you mean, I have seen people (I won’t say dancers) removed from the circle or prevented from going in because their clothing was not appropriate. Even though I wear a cloth skirt and top, I wear a tank top and shorts underneath simply because the heat can really take a toll on you, and being able to cool off can be critical. I have seen a buckskin lady dancer that passed out due to the heat and they were unable to cool her down quickly simply because she didn’t have on any underclothing. And heaven forbid there be a regalia malfunction…..
Aho
Becky
I have read many posts on this forum but been backwards about posting myself,I guess I’ll try to get a litttle more involved.I notice most of this is about womens clothing,does anybody have an idea of what the men wore,whether it be pre or post contact.Precontact I assume it was deerskin breechclout and leggings,but for post contact-cloth breechclout and cloth leggings,but what colors did they use? And did the men wear any time of necklace or medicine bag? Also the moccasins they wore,were they decorated or plain?
Hi ahwikatani,
Here are a couple of other threads discussing clothing. The first one specifically mentions men’s clothing…
Material Culture a/k/a/ Craft’s Corner > Southeastern Siouan Colors and Regalia
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915
Material Culture a/k/a/ Craft’s Corner > Saponi….clothing in the 1800’s.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2923
Material Culture a/k/a/ Craft’s Corner > center seam moc’s
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499
Stacey
I am not trying to promote any other forum, but, you may want to try looking at Powwows.com/gathering. I know there are a lot of intelegent conversations and pictures about the diiferent dancing/clothing styles.
I for one am a Straight Dancer. I dance for our Pawhuska District of the Osage Nation in Pawhuska OK.
I have heard of this smoke dance. Does anyone know of this dance. And, does anyone dance this way. I, also, Stomp Dance. I try to lead when ever asked to help. We have Stomp Grounds around over here mostly in the OK area. We have many different occassions to gather for our Stomp Dance Ceremonies.
Yep, you can find information there as well as several other websites. Although most websites I have seen talk more about the western styles of regalia rather than what would have been worn traditionally here in the eastern area.
My husband, Dreaminghawk, has just finished a complete outfit of regalia using his own brain-tanned deerskin. The total count of hides is eight, which does not include mocs. He has adapted them to what would have been sensible for a woodland indian living on his own, traveling through the area. And he has added trade beads, deer toes, copper cones to adorn his regalia. Our people here would have used what was available in their area. That is why it is so hard to say that one type of regalia would have existed since so many were mixed bloods that moved around and adapted.
I have seen smoke dance at several pow wows. Have not seen Stomp Dance although it is done here at some pow wows. Have you visited any eastern pow wows? It is my understanding that there are quite a few differences between western and eastern. I think eastern is adapted more to the public, mainly to share the culture. You won’t find any sacred dances being shared with the public, but more of a demonstration of the different styles of dance.
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