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Lynella,
On the 1920 Pike Co Ind census for ED38 Monroe Township (Twp), Spurgeon, pg. 9B, dated 22 January, 1920, is listed:
Alsie KINDER, Blacksmith, age 27, b. in Ind.
Nora E. Kinder, his wife, age 24, b.Ind. (Nora Ethel SUTTON)
Leolta Kinder, their daughter, age 4, b.Ind.(her name misspelled?)
(Maybe she was named after Leota Iva Ferguson)
On the 1900 Pike Co census, ED35 Monroe Twp, pg. 3B, dated 19 April 1900, Alsie is living with his parents and step-brother:
Frank KINDER, farmer, 47, marr’d twice, marr’d 9 yrs this marriage, b.Ind; father b.Ind; mother b.KY.
Clara Kinder, his wife, 51, marr’d twice, marr’d 9 yrs this marriage; b.Ind; father b.KY; mother b. Georgia.
Alsie R. (F?) Kinder, son, 17, b.Ind.
Johnny Bascio (?), step-son, 15, b.Ind.
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There is a “hole” here – the Henry Sutton in 1900 Pike Co has no dau Nora or Ethel or any variation thereof. This Henry Sutton marr’d second wife Harriet E. SMITH on 19 Mar 1890 (Pike Co Marriage Book 8, pg.353), which would make Nora (b.about 1896) the dau of Harriet, not Rachael C. Evans, this Henry’s first wife – Soooo…. I’ll keep looking for Nora to verify her parent’s names.
Your information is probably correct, but I wasn’t able to verify it quickly.
On the 1880 Crawford Co Ind census, ED28 Patoka Twp, pg.360C, dated 17 June, Henry Sutton and wife Rachael C. appear with their children:
Henry SUTTON, 38, farmer, b.Oh; father b.VA; mother b.Oh.
Rachael C., 34, wife, Ind; father b.Ind; mother b.Georgia.
Mary E., 17, dau, Ind.
Phillip E., 15, son, Ind.
John H., 13, son, Ind.
Louiza, 11, dau, Ind.
Cornelia E., 8, dau, Ind.
Charles, 5, son, Ind.
Rosetta, 3, dau, Ind.
Pearly A., 1, dau, Ind.
(so if Henry is marr’d to Rachael in 1880 and Henry marr’d Harriet E. Smith in 1890, Rachael either died between 1880 and 1890, or they divorced. Henry & family moved from Crawford Co to Pike Co sometime in the same period. There is no 1890 census, so we can’t narrow it down further by looking at the 1880 and 1900 census.)
On the 1860 Crawford Co Ind census, Sterling Twp; pg.438, 4 July; Post Office: English, Ind, is Rachael C. Evans and her parents and siblings:
Rachael C. Evans, age 15, b.Ind., is the daughter of Ezra EVANS, 39, b.Ind; and Elizabeth Evans, age 37, b.Ind.
Elizabeth’s maiden name is MILLER and she marr’d Ezra Evans on Nov 27, 1841, in Crawford Co., Ind., which is 2 counties east of Pike Co., Ind.
Rachael C. Evans’s siblings in 1860 were:
Francis M. (probably “Marion”), male, 18, b.Ind.
W.R., male, 13, b.Ind.
John S., male, 9, b.Ind.
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Following Henry Sutton back:
1860 Orange Co., Ind Census, Greenfield Twp, pg.609, dated 12 September; Post Office: McDonald, Ind, is Henry and his parents:
Phillip SUTTON, 47, farmer, Real Estate value $1600; Personal Property value $300, b.Ohio.
Louisa, 50, b.Ohio.
Michel, 23, male, Ohio.
Jesse, 21, male, Ohio
HENRY, 18, male, Ohio.****
Anisley, 16, male, Ohio.
Phillip, 12, male, Ohio.
Dennie, 7, male, IND.
So, they must have moved from Ohio to Indiana between 1848 and 1853.
(In future postings, I’ll only list Real Estate and Personal Property values as “$1600, $300”. If only one dollar value is shown, it’s for Real Estate value.)
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More later, posted as “Ferguson/Ricketts”
Bill
Lynella,
I misread your information…. yes, Nora E. was the dau of Charlie Sutton who was the son of Henry Sutton and Rachael C. Evans.
On the 1910 Pike Co Ind census, ED35 Monroe Twp, 21 April; pg. 5A, are:
Charley Sutton; farmer, 33, Ind, Ind, Ind
Iva; wife, 35, Ind, Ind, Ind.
Nora E.; dau, 15, Ind.
Amel R.; son, 12, Ind.
1920 Pike Co Ind census, ED39 Monroe Twp, 9 January; pg. 3B:
Charley Sutton; farmer, 46, Ind; Ohio, Ind.
Iva L.; wife, 49, Ind, Ind, Ind.
Amel R.; son, 20, Ind, Ind, Ind.
……………..
Bill
Bill,
You have been such a big help to me. You’ve made my life easier that’s for sure. You’re the best! Love & Light, Lynella.
Lynella,
Phillip Sutton, father of Henry, is on the 1840 Guernsey Co., Ohio census for Wills Township, pg.311:
Phillip Sutton’s household contained:
1 male under 5. (Michael)
1 male 30 to 39. (Phillip)
1 female 20 to 29. (Louisa/Louiza, maiden name HAMORED)
Guernsey Co was created in 1810 from Belmont and Muskingum Co’s, Ohio and there are a lot of Suttons in earlier Belmont Co.
Phillip’s family is the only Suttons in Guernsey Co.
If you want to find it on a map, the County Seat is Cambridge and this is about 2 counties away from the Ohio River in eastern Ohio.
Look for a post “Frank & David Kinder” in this section also.
Bill
Oh, Bill, thank you so much! I’ll get a map on Ohio and start looking into this stuff. I am so excited! Thanks again, Lynella.
Lynella,
The 1910 Pike Co Ind census showing Frank Kinder’s wife as “Clara” and a “Johnny Bascio (?), step-son”, as well as Alsie R. living there, is somewhat clearer.
Frank married 2nd, Clarisa Brisco, which is probably what “Johnny”s name really was. Don’t know what Clara/Clarisa’s maiden name was.
On the 1880 Pike Co Ind census for Stendal Twp, pg.240A, dated 1 June:
Henry KINDER, 46, day laborer; Ind, Hanover, Ohio.
Lurisa, 49, wife; Ind, Ky, Ky. (sic? should be “Lavisa”?
SEGEAL F., 17, son; Ind, Ind, Ky.**** (“Frank”)
Nancy A., 14, dau, Ind, Ind, KY.
Mary A., 11, dau, Ind, Ind, Ky.
James R. WOOLSEY, 19; farm laborer; Ind, Ky, Ind.
James R. DILLON, 33; farm laborer; Ind, Ky, Ind.
Henry was most likely born in KY, not Ind.
Lurisa/Lavisa, is listed as b. Ind (but prob. in KY) and the children’s mother’s place of birth is listed as Ky., so Lurisa is not their mother unless that portion of the census is incorrect and it could be. I’ll check this out a little further.
Anyway, Lurisa/Lavisa’s maiden name is CARLISLE and she married 1st, Fleming WOOLSEY (b.1826), on 5 Feb 1846 in Pike Co., Ind., and m’d 2nd, Henry KINDER.
NOW… it gets interesting. Lavisa Carlisle was the dau of Benjamin Carlisle and Sarah Tyrone (or Tryon). After Benjamin died, Sarah Tyrone Carlisle married David Kinder (Henry’s father), his 3rd wife, but they had no children, so actually, Henry and Lavisa were not blood relatives.
Henry Kinder’s father is David Kinder, b. 13 May 1799 Washington Co., Penn (Possibly in KY, but not Hanover, Germany as on the 1880 census listing for Henry’s father’s place of birth – altho David’s grandfather may have been from Germany).
1850 Warrick Co., Ind, Owen Twp, pg.348A, 4 September:
(“m” and “f” are male and female, respectively)
David KINDER, 51, m, – , farmer, $170, KY. (Ky is prob. incorrect)
Sarah KINDER, 48, f, – , Ky. (nee: Tyrone, m’d Benj. Carlisle)
Catharine M., 18, f, Ky
Mary E., 18, f, Ky.
HENRY H., 16, m, Ky**** (Frank’s father)
Pleasant P.C., 12, m, Ky.
Sally, 11, f, Ky
Louisa, 9, f, Ky
Mary A., 8, f, Ky
Hilza, 7, f, Ky.
Francis M, 6, m, IND
Charles M., 4, m, IND
John CARLISE, 15, m, farmer, $0, KY (sic. variant of “Carlisle”)
Reden KINDER, 20, m, farmer, $0, IND (should be KY??)
(William Kinder, b.1825 Warrick or Perry Co., Ind., was also David’s son.)
David Kinder was married 3 times:
1st) Ann Richardson, on 15 June 1820 in Perry Co., Ind.
2nd) Elizabeth Fisher, on 17 Feb 1824 in Perry Co., Ind.
3rd) Sarah Carlisle (nee: Tyrone), on 17 Mar 1850 Pike Co., Ind.
(Sarah d. 2 July 1851 in Warrick Co., Ind.)
The mother of David Kinder’s children listed above, was Elizabeth Fisher, including William & Reden Kinder.
One or two problems here. Here’s a list of Sarah Tyrone Carlisle’s children with Benj. Carlisle:
Washington, b. 1823 Ky.
Lavisa, b.1830 Ky
Armilda, b.1832 Ky
John, b.1835 Ky (listed as Carlisle, above census)
Pleasant P., b. 3 Feb 1838 Ky*** (listed as a Kinder, above)
Francis M., b. 11 Aug 1844*** (listed as a Kinder, above.)
You’ll notice right away that the Pleasant P.C. and Francis M., listed as KINDERs on the 1850 census, are identical to the Carlisle family members of the same first names – no idea if they are Kinders or Carlisles.
According to D.A.R. (Daughters of the American Revolution) papers, David Kinder’s parents were Peter (son of the Rev.War Vet) Kinder Sr, b.abt. 1778 Washington Co., Penn; and (Mary) Elizabeth COWAN, b. 24 Sept 1784 Rowan Co., NC, dau of Thomas Cowan and Mary Barksley. The problem with that is they were supposed to have married about 1806 in Ky, 7 years after David Kinder was born – not impossible, some couples did marry in front of their parents and found a preacher later to “consecrate” it. However, I just have a gut feeling this information is incorrect, D.A.R. records notwithstanding (I’ve found a “few” to have been pretty “inventive”).
(use the “search” button on the upper right and search on “cowan” or “cowen” – there was an inquiry last (?) year with that surname.) This Peter Kinder is possibly the one who m’d Ruth/Rutha _?_ in 1818 Perry Co., Ind., but this may have been Peter’s son Peter Jr.
The other possible parents for David are a Peter Kinder Sr., b.bet. 1735 to 1745 Penn., d. 1827 in Montgomery Co., Ind. (this may be a Peter Jr who died Ind), who m’d Dolly SEE (b.1755 Berks Co., Pa., dau of Martin SEE and Margaret STOKES) in abt. 1770 Rockbridge Co., Va. Sorting that out should give you a headache ! Both of these Peter Kinder’s had kids named Peter and David. The first listed Peter is supposed to be the son of Johann Georg GUENTHER, b.abt. 1702 Germany – but I don’t know how that researcher tied GUENTHER to KINDER.
Look for Gentry/Reed/Hodges/Staton posting.
Bill
Well, I really have no idea what I would ever do without you. I have been on this computer since 7:00 this morning, it’s now 12:52. I searched several different sites with census records back to 1820 in Ohio. None of them had a Phillip Sutton or a Wills Township, let alone some lady or family with the last name of Hamored. Hamored???? Who the heck was she? So, I’m not worried about the headache I’m going to get looking into the Frank & Henry Kinder, because now I am completely crosseyed and insane!!!!!
I did print up a bunch of old Ohio maps!:eek:
Do you know of any fast cures for petrified butt syndrome?
The next headline will read, “Woman’s Brain Internally Combusts Due to Computer Defficite Syndrom.”
Love & Light, Lynella. P.S. I’m gonna’ take a break and make some phone calls. Check Ya’ Later!
Bill,
Some of the stuff I’ve just looked over matches up with yours so this is good. As soon as I’m done highlighting our matches in yellow, I’ll get back to you on those. 😀 NOW.
So, are you saying that it shows that my Grandpa Alsie’s mom was NOT Louisa Elvira Genrty, but REALLY WAS Clarisa Briscoe?
I’m geneologicly challenged here! (confused)
In my notes I got from Donna, I find that David Kinder is the son of Peter Kinder and Mary Elizabeth Cown. (notice another spelling?) It says, David Kinder died, 1882, in McCoupin County, Illinois. ILLINOIS???
Donna sent me an article it’s just a photocopy. It doesn’t say where it came from. It shows some photos. one has Arnolds in it.
but it says, “…..in 1900, they came from Perry County Indiana, but not directly, for they lived for a short time in central, Il. Daniel Sandage had worked in the coal mines there. Both “Dan” and “Meg” were from pioneer families in Perry Co. The ancestors of both of them came from the Carolina’s in 1812. Her great Grandfather, a revolutionary soldier, served under General Nathaniel Green guarding Charleston Harbor. He was born in Orange Co., North Carolina and went to the war at 16 years of age in Captain Lytle’s Regiment from Wilkes Co. He died in 1850 an is burried in the Bolin Cemetary near Cannelton. His name was Thomas Bolin. His son James Bolin and his wife Rebecca Kinder Bolin are burried there also. Rebecca’s sister Charity married Moses Sandage. They were Dan’s grandparents, so Dan and Meg were cousins through their Grandmothers. Kinder was Guender. If you pronounce the G as a hard sound as it is in Dutch, it is the near sound to K. Pronounce the second vowel and you have Kinder. Peter Kinder was their father. He served in the revolution under george Rogers Clark. Peter’s grandfather came from Rotterdam in Holland. He settled in New York. His son Phillip lived in Pennsylvania as they moved west.”
So this is originally an article about Dan & Meg Sandage. But they are related? I don’t know, I’m confused!!!!:eek: Love & Light, Lynella.
So are these Sandages other people in the family that I have to find out about? Or– do they not count? Man, how do you do this?????
Well, I’ll search for Cowan/Cowen/Cown for a bit before I start Dinner. Thank you Bill. Lynella.
On that 1910 census, Frank Kinder and Clara Brisco had been married for only 9 years and Alsie was already 17 yrs old – Clara was not his mother.
I’m unable to prove that Peter Kinder and Elizabeth Cown/Cowan were David’s parents, altho they may be. The Guenther/Guender/Kinder’s only boarded a ship in Rotterdam, Holland, to get to the colonies, like many people from the interior. They were probably German from Hanover, not Dutch.
Yes, it looks like Dan and Meg Sandage were cousins, not unusual. BOLIN ? hmmm, that’s interesting.
Philip (only one “L”) Sutton, is on the 1840 Guernsey Co Ohio census, page 311. This is image # 15 on ancestry.com’s 1840 Guernsey Co Ohio “census records on-line”.
Bill
Yeah! After I had given my brain a rest for a few hours last night, I was able to see very clearly that Alsie’s mom is Gentry, not Brisco.
How do you do this so well and not loose your sight and your mind? I find you fenominal. (I probably spelled that wrong)
Yeah, what about that Bolin?
Thank you very much kind sir. I’ll see if I can get back on that Guernsey Co census today and not mess things up! Thanx again Bill. Love & Light, Lynella.
Use the “search” button for BOLIN, BOLLIN, BOLLING, BOWLING, BOLEN, BOLLEN, etc.
The posting of info for your SHELTON, GENTRY lines (and an early relationship to your REEDs) is taking longer than expected due to your SHELTON & GENTRY lines being related to mine as well as to several of my cousins.
Bill
Lynella,
If you are searching for some good REED research go to the search engine for this forum and type in “Govind Sanyal Research” I communicated with this person for some time and still see him online occasionally. He works with a Professor Airy Dixon who is an old friend of Linda’s. He gave me permission to post his research and there was a lot there on the Reeds.
Brenda
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