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Hi,
I am trying to help a friend find her Saponi roots. Daneil Harris b. Oh 1834 – 1st married Phebe Wygant on 21 SEP 1855 In La Grange County IN. Children: George, Charles, Charlotte and James She passed away than next he married Jennie (Jane) Rugg on 17 DEC 1874 in LaGrange County IN. their children: Margaret,Peter,Ida Milo and John.
My friend thought they have found his record in the war fighting in the south.
Can this connect to any HARRIS line out there? He was Saponi. Thank you.
As all of us called the Saponi before we knew the correct name- he was Blackfoot. Shelia, my friends line whom I am helping, thinks she may have found he was solider in the confed. soilder. She said that would make sense if was Saponi from the south.
I have Harrises, who were mixed bloods, and may have been carrying the Blackfoot ID. They were in PA in the 1790-1820’s. They had 11 children, three of whom we know about. They were in Ohio in the 1830’s, though we don’t know where exactly. Ours ended up in WI. La Grange, WI ironically.
Perhaps your friend is a cousin. I’d really like to see whatever records she has on her people while they were in Ohio.
She does not have much info at all. I do have who he married and thier children. All I could find on him is that he was married 1st to Phebe Wygant on 21 SEP 1855 LaGrange IN and the 2nd marriage was to Jane/Jennie Rugg 17 DEC 1874 LaGrange IN. All I have on him is his birth of 1834 Ohio. If you have any more inf, that would be great.
Up until the time I helped them, they were always told that Jennie was Saponi, but I have found that to be very false, and also recognized the name connected to the tribe.
She told me that “she thought” that they found his civil war record. But I wonder just how many Daniel Harris’s there were besides her Daniel.
Who was saying Jennie was Saponi, and why?
Actually, our families weren’t incorrect in calling themselves Blackfoot. They were the isiasepahiye, or saxapahaw as in Saxapahaw, NC. Issi asepa hiye is Tutelo for blackened foot. We ‘correct’ it by saying it means Saponi, but that’s only in deference to the error the Governor introduced ca. 1720 when he insisted on calling all upper nc/va siouan the ‘Saponi.’ All our families did was translate the word to English. They’re the ones who were right, not the Governor. We’re really not descended from the Saponi Indians. We’re descendants of the Saxapahaw Indians, allies of the Saponi.
So, I can’t be sure that my grandmother was referring to the Harrises when she said we were Blackfoot. We know the Harrises were Indian by the way my gr- grandfather looked. But then we also know our Hudsons were Indian by our own family stories and those of cousins we never knew before. Those Hudsons lived at one point not far from a place being called “Blackfoot Town.” We also know our Keasey’s were Indian, likely our Smiths, too. So, was just one line the Blackfoot? Were they all? We don’t know yet.
If my Harrises were Blackfoot, then I’d say the odds of another family of Blackfoot Harrises in Ohio in the 1830’s being related are pretty fair. So, for the sake of pursuing the possibility, let’s say your friend’s Daniel was one of our Harris boys. The progenitor would then be Thomas Harris of Chambersburg, PA, ca. 1790. There are records of him having eleven children, but only Thomas, Joseph and William are known.
They seem to do a fair amount of repeating given names with children, so I’ll name some later generation’s names: John, Rosanna, William, Clara, George, Rebecca, Alvin, Mabel, Clara, Ethel, Cloe, Emma, Anna, Mary, Elmer, Jesse, Sara, Lottie, Louella Elizabeth, Emma (2), Herman, Earl, Lester, Elmer (2), Charles, Mary (2), Rosa Rebecca (2), Anna (2), Edna, Minnie, Genevieve, Joseph, Francis, Mary, Thomas (3)
Hi, Jennie’s parents were John R. Rugg 1805-1867 from PA- Jennies mother was Jan Nelson 1829-1909 from Ohio. I dont have anymore on her. The Rugg family’s next generation was Curtiss Rugg and next was samuel Rugg and Priscella Curtis Root next generation was John Rugg 1725-1799 MA and Hannah Ames 1700-1792 from MA. Next genaeration of Ruggs was from MA and after that England.
Daneil was born in OH in 1834 m on 21 SEP 1855 (LaGrnage Co. IN) to Phebe Wygant – their children were George, Charles, Charlotte and James.
Daniels 2nd marriage was to Jane/Jennie Rugg (1853-1937) on 17 DEC 1874. Their children were Margaret,Peter,Ida May, Milo and John.
I believe there’s a type of DNA test that will show if someone’s your cousin. Maybe someday we could afford to do that.
Here’s a pix of one of our earlier Harrisses, Francis Marion Harris:
And this is his sister, Mary Jane Harris. My mom remembers her sitting on the front porch with her hair in braids, smoking a pipe, which made her look so Indian to her. That would have been in the Thirties. These pix are from around the turn of the century.
I will have to see what pictures she has to share- if any of her Harris family. She is a busy mom, and a dear sweet friend, with a busy family and college and work.
Thank you for sharing those pictures. I will see what more info, if any I can get on her.
Kamama
”I believe there’s a type of DNA test that will show if someone’s your cousin.”
Yes,there is!
I’m a client of 23 and Me DNA testing service. Not only did they do paternal,maternal,and Ancestry Painting@ (continental ancestries) but they also have Relative Finder@.
Relative Finder@ matches one to others in the database. They can estimate the range (ex: 3-7 cousin) and the most likely possibility (ex: 4th cousin) for each match.
Unfortunately,RF doesn’t tell which “side” of the family a DNA cousin is on.
Yours truly has approximately 270 cousins on 23 and Me. Haven’t found paperwork on them yet,but
they are related to me and are of diverse ethnicities
Hey Roca, good to see you. Thanks for that info. How much do those tests cost? Do you have family names, etc. in common with these people to back up what the DNA tests show?
Linda;36621 wrote: Hey Roca, good to see you. Thanks for that info. How much do those tests cost? Do you have family names, etc. in common with these people to back up what the DNA tests show?
It cost me about $500 some dollars for the full battery. (November 2010) They’re running a $99 special right now. (23 and Me)
Most of my DNA cousins are a little distant (estimated 3rd and beyond),so the surnames might not match up. But,that doesn’t mean we’re not related;the DNA says so.
I have a lot of gaps in my family tree. I know 7 of 8 g grandparents but only 12 of 16 gg grandparents. Maybe the DNA testing will give some hints.
I sure hope it works better for you than it did for me. I do not regret taking the autosomal test on Familytree even though I have only been able to identify one definite cousin. Surname matches have helped verify my ancestry.com tree. I think that when one has several matching ancestors, the results are skewed to closer relationships than really are. I think with some work, several matches and I could find the connections, but I find many people take the test but don’t follow up. That is very frustrating to me, especially if that person matches closely. Several of my closest matches are people looking for lost ancestry, i.e. they were adopted, so they have no family tree to match. Also, I am showing multiple matches to a surname that is rumored to have been Indian. Very intriguing as my Blackfoot ancestor has no identified parents.
Off to see if new matches happened this week.
Techteach
Hey Cindy, good to see you, and see you’re still at it. Have you tried it in an instance where you wondered if someone were a cousin along a particular line? If, let’s say, this Daniel Harris were one of Thomas Harris’s kids, would that test be reliable in telling us we were cousins, would it be reliable if it told us we weren’t?
Hi,
I did the 23andme test also, and have over 700 cousin matches, the vast majority 5th cousins or more remote.
This test doesn’t rule out relationships – if you match someone you can be sure you are related in some way, but if you don’t match, you may still be related. Here’s what 23andme says:
Because there is randomness when DNA is transmitted from parent to child, the more distant a cousin pair the less likely they are to share any stretch of DNA that was passed down through the generations. Note that even though there is a relatively low chance of detecting more distant cousins, Relative Finder will likely find a good number of them given the large number of distant cousins that exist.
We estimate the likelihood of detecting a known cousin to be:
Relationship / Probability of detecting
1st cousin or closer ~100%
2nd cousin >99%
3rd cousin ~90%
4th cousin ~45%
5th cousin ~15%
6th cousin and beyond <5%
So far I’ve been able to confirm relationships with three people, the closest a 6th cousin, the most remote a 10th cousin. One thing is that New England cousins are much easier to track down than Virginia/WV/Kentucky ones. I have only one smallish branch of New England ancestry, but in that area genealogy is so well documented that once you get back to the early 1800s it’s a piece of cake to go all the way back to the early 1600s. Whereas in southwest Virginia…. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you…. Partly I’m sure this is just the difference between records on people who live in towns and people who live out on the frontier.
Roca, what’s your name on 23andme? Maybe we’re cousins. I’m listed as Barbara Bauer.
More than half the people I match are anonymous, and don’t respond to messages. I have a supposed third cousin, but she has not answered my message. Many people on 23andme are just there for medical information, and are not interested in genealogy.
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