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I am not in the lineage here. That belongs to my wife and I am interested because of our children. I started on the tree a few years back but gave up rather quickly. This time I’ve got some help (my mother is the genealogist of the family).
The oral tradition was that my wifes grandmother was a native american forced to move from Tennessee to Oklahoma. Not an uncommon story. The hard parts were that she was Choctaw (possibly named Whitting) and Blackfoot. Not a likely mix. Much more likely is that she was a Cherokee and that he was one of the eastern natives that still held onto the Blackfoot name as it pertains to the site here. I’m rather glad I found the site as it has made the stories make a lot more sense.
To continue. Elizabeth was forced west. She then decided to leave Oklahoma and go back to Tennessee. While in Arkansas however she met and married a baptist minister named Franks 25 years her senior. They lived in several parts of the southern US.
Their youngest child was Charles, my wifes father. My wifes maiden name was Tine Marie Franks. My name is William E Rieffer. Our children are William Lee (Liam), Silvey Marie, and Declan Pratt…
This is a very preliminary message. I’m expecting some records shortly from a relative including full names and birthdates. Unfortunatly in scanning the messages I’ve not seen the name Thomas. If my hunch is correct the man was probably generally regarded as Cherokee as well with an oral tradition as a “Blackfoot”
I plan to post again when I can give a better picture of the relations.
Interestingly, I have a good friend only known through the internet (we write for the same website) named Carl Jarrell, a name that I did see among the messages.
Will
Hello William, so glad that yoo have found Saponi Town.
I hope that you will share what you can about your families history and that you learn as much from the site as we will from you , thank you and have a great summer, look forward to your next posting, Tom.
Thanks for the welcome. I have a lot clearer information today…
Mary Elizabeth “Lizzy” Thomas: The information as of this time 7-1-02 is that she was born of a full blooded native mother named Whited. The mother is reported to be half Choctaw and half eastern “Blackfoot” with that lineage pointing to the Carolina area. The Choctaw lineage is sketchy and Cherokee gets mentioned as well so its quite possible that the parents were basically a Cherokee pair with the father having a history to the Sissipaha or Saponi.
Her father was John Thomas. There are no other details about him at this time.
She was born on a homestead farm in/around 1898 in/around Pigeon Forge Tennessee near the South Carolina border.
She is reported to have traveled from Tennessee to Oklahoma via Houston Mississippi where she met James “Jim” Carrol (sp) Franks. Later they married possibly in Arkansas.
Jim’s Father was named John L and the lineage is to Alabama. Jim also is reported to have had two brothers John and Charles.
Lizzy had seven children all with Jim. They were…
William Millard
Melvin
Gertrude
Pauline
Ruby
Hazel
And our direct relative, Tina Marie’s father Ruben Charles, who was born April 30, 1936 in Etawah Arkansas.
There were also three half brothers to these children who were fathered by Jim prior to his marriage to Lizzy. They were…
Lonzo
Hubert
Dayton
Now I’m off to look around again for Whited or Whitted.
Will
hay, her ancestors did what mine did, but mine remained in Indian Territory. We also have a story of Cherokee (Brown, Guess/t, Looney — all those surnames) mixing with “Blackfoot” — Richey, Wayland, Wood/s, Dickson — one or more of those surnames.
We discovered recently my g-g-grandpa was near Hot Springs, Ark, in 1830s, and was named Martin Guest. There is a Martin Guess on the Choctaw rolls who might be his grandson. But he was Cherokee, not Choctaw. People did get separated from their “own” and hooked up with who ever they could sometimes. Members of the Five Civilized Tribes sometimes went to Eastern Schools and returned to what was called “the frontier”. So you might find a Mississippi Choctow living way back east. My Cherokee ancestors lived in the Chickasaw Nation.
vance hawkins
You are starting to hear this more and more. Same stories in my family but it is just so vague. I heard Cherokee and Blackfoot also.
IN REFERENCE TO WHITTED OR WHITED SURNAME HI WILL, GENEALOGY.COM HAS A WHITTED MESSAGE BOARD.
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Connie
interesting to hear a “forced” removal from 1900 to OK from tenn.
Why do you believe it was forced? and if so why not just head south 45 miles to Cherokee from pigeon forge?
what documentation do you have on the choctaw and or blackfoot ID? is it written somwhere? or orally passed? have you looked on beyond east tenn cou nties, if not, try neighboring counties in nc and va for thomas sir name.
there are thomas’ on the eastern cherokee rolls at different dates in the mid to late 1800s
Hello , for more information on forced removals or what they refered to as persauded removals look into Louisianas history of The Choctaws and the Atakaps, sad to say but removals were still happening up until the 1930’s! Tom
absolutely!reliable sources remember cherokees,and blackfoot,being removed by night from the osarks in missouri and dumped in oklahoma well into the mid 1950’s!!!
My family moved west of the Mississippi from NC and TN around 1840. Not sure why, but it Im sure its not good. No one in my family will tell me why they moved or if they were moved. All I know is being indian is a touchy subject for some and pride at the same time, if that makes sense. My grandpa was the only indian in his class and made my grandmother give my dad up for adoption because he thought he looked to white to be his son. Strange story but just putting in my 2 cents.
Chad
hmmm . . .
i didn’t realize the word “forced” removal was used. I’m skeptical — can yall provide documentation? My ancestors were in “Chickasaw Nation” and “Choctaw Nation” from 1870s & some still live here in what is Oklahoma today, including me.
The only forced removal was in 1820s & 1830s for the 5 tribes called “Civilized” triibes. I was born in the 1950s in Oklahoma and I heard a lot, but I never heard of a “forced” removal as late as the 1950s.
If you know of such things, can you provide dates, news articles, publications, et cetera? thanks!
vance hawkins
Hello All, Vance you should contact the BIA and see what they have to say about these events, Iam sure that in most cases they will say ” well We don’t know anything about that”!
Who is going to admit to forcing people out of bed in the middle of the night at gun point!?
No Kidding the last remaining members on some tribal land remain there only because they were away when the white hoods rode in!
All the best Tom.
well they didnt have video camera’s in those days,probabaly still don’t have many in the osarks.i got my info from my cheif who’s family this happened to,70%ofthe tribe is over 55 many remember.but believe as you will maybe the holocaust never happened right?
whew . . .
Well friend, video cameras are not required — just records, land deeds, et cetera if folks were forced off their lands those records exist. Ask your Chief for those records.
Many people have asked for and received such records — Angie Debo made a career about exposing the trashy way American Indians here in Oklahoma were treated, and I know and believe the American Holocaust DID happen & my family history is a record of it — and we have those records — through dilligent hard work, it is like havin teeth pulled findin those records, and we don’t have any money so it’s takin a long time — many years in fact.
I don’t remember Angie Debo talkin about anything happenin in the 1950s, and that late I am sure records would have been kept. The way I have learned the TRUTH about my family is to check everything — all the “rumors” with FACTS I could document, and I have documentation back to the late 18th century. That’s the type of documentation I’m askin about. I heard a lotta rumors, some of it was con men who’d tell me “we have records” your ancestors were descended from Pocahantas! I had some folks on the internet tell me that!!! But I then asked them for a personal copy of that proof and they shut up. So I gotta assume they were liars. I want my “real” family history, not a close fascimile. I doubt people were evected in the 1950s, friend. Plenty of land foreclusures have happened, folks evected because they quit makin payments. Both my grandparents lost farms in the 1930s “Dust Bowl” here in Oklahoma and were homeless for a while wonderin’ around. That was cause they had no money, not because of their race.
If you are mixed Black/Indian I can believe you — the KKK could have been that terrible and records in the Deep South might be erased because some of those folks were pure evil from what I’ve read, and seen DOCUMENTED (key word “documented”).
My ancestors too lived in the Ozarks, surnames Brown, Looney, Guess, Richey, Wood, Dickson & others. I have a talent for makin the enrolled and the unenrolled mad at me. We are not enrolled or enrollable, so when I talk to the enrolled I emntion all the unenrolled and they can get upset. Then I go to the unenrolled and ask folks to show documentation and get folks in a huff too — I can’t win!
I am on your side, but we need documented facts to prove how our ancestors’ve been treated. Don’t get all in a huff over what I said, instead get to work! Documentation exists. Go to the County Clerk and look up the names, dates, and property locations. County officials will help you. Find it!
vance
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