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sammarroq wrote: Where is Fox’s Neck in Orange County? My Martin Gibson was from Fox’s Neck…
Shirley
Hi Shirley,
I found a description that says Fox’s Neck was Col. Spotswood’s land near Germanna on north side of the Rapidan River. I found a map too, but the page I was on timed out on me and the computer locked up and I had to do a re-start. I will go back through and see if I can find that link again and post it if I do.
The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography by Virginia Historical Society. 1895.
Page 189
…William Bohannon came and made oath “that about twenty six Saponey Indians, who inhabited Col. Spotswood’s land in Fox’s Neck (near Germanna on north side of the Rapidan River) go about and do a great deal of mischief by setting fire to the woods…
Stacey
(from Larry Smith’s database for Wyoming and McDowell Co, WV http://www.coalexchange.com/smith/mcdowella/pafg369.htm#27493)
“Martin Gibson was born before 1785. He died about 1831 in Perry Co,KY. He married Eleanor Davis.
[Notes]
Eleanor Davis was born about 1782 in KY. She married Martin Gibson.
[Notes]
They had the following children:
M i Martin Gibson
M ii Enoch Gibson Sr
M iii Joel Gibson
M iv Andrew Gibson was born in 1820 in Perry Co,KY. [Notes]
F v Nancy Ann Gibson
M vi Henry Gibson
F vii Eleanor “Nelly” Gibson
F viii Matilda Gibson
F ix Sarah “Sally” Gibson”
His son Enoch’s son John Gibson married Elizabeth (Betsy) Riffe – who was my gggrandmother’s sister. Three Riffes married Collinses – Lewis Riffe married Margaret Collins, Mary (Polly) Riffe married John Collins, Jr. (my gggrandparents) and Susannah (Sookie) Riffe married Benjamin Collins. These are children of John Collins Sr., and Lydia Tanner/Toner – the same John Collins Brenda Collins Dillon was tracing from Grainger Co., Tennessee. It’s not clear at all where that Collins family was between 1827 and 1850. Or before 1821.
Hmmmm.
Barbara Adair Bauer wrote: (from Larry Smith’s database for Wyoming and McDowell Co, WV http://www.coalexchange.com/smith/mcdowella/pafg369.htm#27493)
“Martin Gibson was born before 1785. He died about 1831 in Perry Co,KY. He married Eleanor Davis.
[Notes]
Eleanor Davis was born about 1782 in KY. She married Martin Gibson.
[Notes]
They had the following children:
M i Martin Gibson
M ii Enoch Gibson Sr
M iii Joel Gibson
M iv Andrew Gibson was born in 1820 in Perry Co,KY. [Notes]
F v Nancy Ann Gibson
M vi Henry Gibson
F vii Eleanor “Nelly” Gibson
F viii Matilda Gibson
F ix Sarah “Sally” Gibson”
His son Enoch’s son John Gibson married Elizabeth (Betsy) Riffe – who was my gggrandmother’s sister. Three Riffes married Collinses – Lewis Riffe married Margaret Collins, Mary (Polly) Riffe married John Collins, Jr. (my gggrandparents) and Susannah (Sookie) Riffe married Benjamin Collins. These are children of John Collins Sr., and Lydia Tanner/Toner – the same John Collins Brenda Collins Dillon was tracing from Grainger Co., Tennessee. It’s not clear at all where that Collins family was between 1827 and 1850. Or before 1821.
Hmmmm.
Yes, that is him, he also had a son George (mine)…I know Martin is his father as I found the funeral records in Grundy and they list both Martin and Netty as parents. George was b. 1813 Perry, KY d. 1886 Buchanan, VA. m. Mary “Polly” Daniel. George, Martin Jr. and others can later be found in Tazewell, VA…later to become Buchanan.
Martin is also listed in Richard Allen Carlson’s dissertation, “Who’s Your People?” Where he is part of Valentine “Tiney” Collins Clan, they are referred to as Saponi.
Some of the Collins continued into Nicholas, WV…there are still a few in the Richwood area, where my father’s family has lived since leaving VA.
stacey.23 wrote: Hi Shirley,
I found a description that says Fox’s Neck was Col. Spotswood’s land near Germanna on north side of the Rapidan River. I found a map too, but the page I was on timed out on me and the computer locked up and I had to do a re-start. I will go back through and see if I can find that link again and post it if I do.
The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography by Virginia Historical Society. 1895.
Page 189
Stacey
I really appreciate your posts:) You have done a lot of research. I will see if I can find a map that shows Fox’s Neck.
I wonder if John Collins and Lydia Tanner were part of Tiney Collins group. These are the Collins who ended up in the part of Tazewell County that became McDowell County. The Collins descendants who live there now don’t know of any Saponi links – or any other NA connection – at least the ones I’ve communicated with.
I didn’t know Fox’s neck but Germanna is on the south side of the Rapidan where Virginia route 3 crosses the river between Fredericksburg and Culpeper. Governor Spotswood founded a German colony there, hence the name, and the old Germanna Ford is now a bridge with Germanna Community College nearby.
Orange County is indeed the north side of the river there.
I don’t know if it means anything but looking at the area on Google Earth I see a crossroads a short distance to the southwest labeled “Indian Town.”
Michael Dunn
Barbara Adair Bauer wrote: I wonder if John Collins and Lydia Tanner were part of Tiney Collins group. These are the Collins who ended up in the part of Tazewell County that became McDowell County. The Collins descendants who live there now don’t know of any Saponi links – or any other NA connection – at least the ones I’ve communicated with.
There is a chance they are…check migration patterns and associated surnames, this really helped me:) My Gibson’s skimmed the Piedmont of NC/VA west into KY (Perry, Pike, Floyd), VA (Tazewell/Buchanan) and eventually settled in Nicholas, WV.
I will take a look and see if I come up with anything.
michaeldunn wrote: I didn’t know Fox’s neck but Germanna is on the south side of the Rapidan where Virginia route 3 crosses the river between Fredericksburg and Culpeper. Governor Spotswood founded a German colony there, hence the name, and the old Germanna Ford is now a bridge with Germanna Community College nearby.
Orange County is indeed the north side of the river there.
I don’t know if it means anything but looking at the area on Google Earth I see a crossroads a short distance to the southwest labeled “Indian Town.”
Michael Dunn
Thanks, this is very interesting Michael, I will check it out:)
Shirley
I think this is maybe the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography article Stacey found:
I didn’t see the map, though. This part is interesting:
“These Germans driven from their burning homes in the Palatine by the French camped for a while near London, and then sent over to Tappahannock, Virginia, were settled at Germanna, in Orange, by Gov. Spotswood, to work his iron mines; the English task masters were too harsh on them, and again they sought freedom by fleeing to the wilds of the upper Rapidan, entirely beyond all English settlement or succor in case of atack, for this however it seems they were well prepared, for we find that when their pastor “Stover” died in 1738, one of the items in his schedule of property was two barrels of gun powder.”
My family wasn’t too clear on our John Collins’s background, but they were quite clear that Lydia Tanner was “a Dutch woman.” They weren’t born until around 1800, though. Big gap.
Another reference to Fox’s Neck:
http://www.vcdh.virginia.edu/encounter/projects/monacans/Documentary_Evidence/evidence.html
About this time Indians are known to have been living on the banks of the Rapidan, some miles below Orange Court House, as is revealed in an order made by the County Court in 1730. This is in part: “William Bohannon came into court and made oath that about twenty-six Sapony Indians that inhabit Colonel Spotswood’s land in Fox’s neck go about and do a great deal of mischief by firing the woods, more especially on the 17th day of April last whereby several farrows of pigs were burnt in their beds, and that he verily believes that one of the Indians shot at him the same day….”5 Fox’s Neck, mentioned in the order of the court, is a narrow spur of land, nearly a mile in length and bordered by the left bank of the Rapidan, immediately up the stream from Germanna bridge, the site of the settlement of Germanna. The Indians may have been some who had formerly lived at Fort Christanna. The fort was abandoned by the Colony in 1718, but the “Sapponey Indian Town” nearby was recognized as late as 1728 as belonging to the Saponi and allied tribes, and white settlers were not permitted to acquire the land. It is not know when the Indians were finally dispersed, but it is believed that not all left at the same time; they probably drifted away in small groups to seek new homes elsewhere. Not long after this a party of Indians visited the burial mound, “the Indian Grave,” on the low ground of the Rivanna and, as related by Jefferson, “staid about it some time, with expressions which were construed to be those of sorrow.”
There’s a thread here from 2003 discussing this same Fox’s Neck/Germanna area – mentions Gibsons.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=fox%27s+neck
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