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Hello,
Just wondering if when the Indians at Fort Christanna left and moved into North Carolina did they still or ever intermarry with each other. For example, would the Occaneechi have married in with the Haliwa-Saponi or what about the Eno or Tutuelo. Did they just marry within the same group or did they marry other ethnic groups for new blood.
Also, how can you tell who belongs to what group now if at one point they where all consisdered Saponi. Has anyone done a migration pattern of surnames yet relating to each tribe that left Fort Christanna.
I am now researching Pleseant Grove township> I think it’s in Orange County, NC. I got a tip that there where some Parker’s there. I haven’t found anything yet though.
Thanks,
ADillard
ADillard,
thanks for posting.
There must have been all kinds of intermarriages. White-Saponi, Catawba-Eno, Tuscarora-Oconeechee, et cetera.
As for when Fort Christianna was abandoned, I don’t know, but there are others here who do. SOmeone will read this and respond. 🙂
I’ve heard opther people mention the Parker surname here. If you go to the upper right hand corner of this website you will see “search”. If you click on it and search for the word “Parker” you might find other people who were looking for Parker’s, and what they discovered. Good luck.
vance
Hello,
Do you know if all of the tribes at Fort Christanna left at the same time or did they dispearse at different times. Also, I often see the Saponi, Eno, and Tutuelo grouped together and the Occaneechi seperate from them. If they are a seperate group what makes them different.
Hey! This is a really good set of questions. I’m interested to know what you find that is definitive. Vance is right, there certainly was a lot of intermarriage going on, in all directions I’m sure. Do use the search button. I know I’ve seen a lot of Saponi/Tutelo with other subtribes. I think, I’m not saying it’s certain, just what I think, that in instances when someone mentions Saponi affiliated with other tribes at some historical point, it could generically include the Occaneechee Saponi. This is just what I suppose though, don’t take it as full truth!;) And I apologize greatly if I spelled that wrong. It’s my bed time! Love & Light, Lynella.
I don’t know when any of them dispersed. I have a feeling that by the 1780s or 90s perhaps the last generation that actually knew a lot of the old ways and traditions were aging, they had convertd to Christianity, their children were active in various churches, their tribe had disbanded pretty much, and their kids were living as Whites, for the most part.
If they ever brought up the topic of their Indian heritage, their white neighbors frowned on it, they heard their white neighbors call the Indians ignorant savages. The saw those same white neighbors use terms such as “friendly Indians” and “Wild Indians” more often than any tribal affiliation. I recall my dad telling family stories where his grandparents used the term “Wild Indians” to distinguish the Chickasaw from the Kiowa and Comanche here in SW Ok.
I’ll bet that those children of the Old Timers who were Saponi and other Virginia tribes — those who wer passing away by the year 1800 were calling the Shawnee and Creek “Wild Indians” in their day, cause they wanted to make sure their White allies saw them differently. And their Christian children even didn’t tell their kids their tribe, so later generations just called themselves “Blackfoot” or “Cherokee” or they were called other names by others such as “Melungeon” or “Brass Ancles” or “Black Dutch”.
I bet the Christian religion had something to do with the loss of tribal identity. I remember when I was younger mentioning I was part Indian and I remember pastors always minimizin gthat saying “there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ” I took that as a hint to shut up and I did. I’ll bet our great grandparents were also being told that I was told in their local churches long ago.
vance
Vance,
🙂 Personally, I feel certain that the Christianization of Native Americans had a lot to do with them becoming less traditional in their own belief systems. Social mores tend to place single people to full groups of people into a box and stigamatize them into changing to meet the expectations of the advancing society as a whole.:( I myself feel that it is more imortant than ever, for this reason, to embrace increasingly greater amounts of our traditional values and beliefs in order to bring back some semblance of what and who we were as a collective unit of proud people.;) Love & Light, Lynella.
P.S, Thank you kindly for all your information and input. You are so valuable to us!
Just wondering if when the Indians at Fort Christanna left and moved into North Carolina did they still or ever intermarry with each other. For example, would the Occaneechi have married in with the Haliwa-Saponi or what about the Eno or Tutuelo. Did they just marry within the same group or did they marry other ethnic groups for new blood.
My sense of it is that there were so few people left on the Christanna reserve that trying to keep marriages even within the broad group was difficult. I don’t see how anyone today can say that they descend exclusively from any of the individual tribes within the confederation of tribes. There certainly is no historic documentation that would indicate this, except presumably for the Tutelo at Six Nations, who later were so diminished they were adopted as Cayuga. Although, even with them, I wonder if the name “Tutelo” wasn’t a catch all, by then, for an amalgam of Piedmont Siouan.
The word “Haliwa” is modern. It truncates the words “Halifax” and “Warren,” the counties where this group of descendants live. I know that there are recurring tales from the Mecklenburg County, VA Indians of trips into Halifax to visit relatives or snag partners. I’ve also seen enough dovetaling of surnames between all of the various isolate communities in the upper south to know that they were interrelated.
It’s the same story with the Lumbee, only even moreso. I believe survivors from just about all the old tribes made their way there. Nowadays you hear of various factions trying to assert a predominant heritage. One group claims Cheraw descent, who are documented as settling there. Cheraw, or Saura, are Piedmont Siouan.
In reality, all Indian descended people in the upper south are either white/Indian, black/Indian or black/white/Indian. There are virtually no purebloods. In my personal experience, the only people I’ve seen in VA or NC who looked pure blooded Indian turned out to be half central or south American Indian.
Linda,
🙂 Awsome! Thank you for adding to this. You really know how to get stuff to make good sense. I’m glad you came along. You have a way of deminishing my frustrations. I greatly appreciate it! 😉
Originally posted by Linda
In my personal experience, the only people I’ve seen in VA or NC who looked pure blooded Indian turned out to be half central or south American Indian.
Think again Linda.
At Qualla Boundries, the Cherokee Indian Reservation in NC, there are still pureblood Cherokees. You should know that firsthand.
Hey, I forgot you had a forum and came across it in a search engine.
In reality, all Indian descended people in the upper south are either white/Indian, black/Indian or black/white/Indian. There are virtually no purebloods. In my personal experience, the only people I’ve seen in VA or NC who looked pure blooded Indian turned out to be half central or south American Indian.
Thanks Bill. I took Linda’s comment about purebloods to include all Indians in NC. Being that they’re in western part of the state people forget that the Eastern Band of Cherokee are in North Carolina, too. Linda went up there with me a few years back and saw firsthand that there are many Cherokee’s that are purebloods. Other than that exception, Linda is correct about the rest.
Hello,
I just want to thank everyone for their posts. It’s really helpful in trying to sort out all the family tree stuff. It’ seems like I could have two lines. One with the Occaneechi and the Haliwa-Saponi tribe but it’s not for sure. My cousin in NC told me she works with a lady whose last name is Jeffries and that the Parker’s and that the Parker’s form Orange County are related to them but she didn’t explain how. So I have more to search.
ADillard
Barry,
🙂 Thank you so much for that. See, having you pop in is like a morale booster! Your insight is much needed. Lynella.
Crystal,
I truly appreciate everything you just said. None of it sounded like any kind of attack to me, and everyone as individials will have something to add. I thank you for the way you describe the “melting pot.” I think that will answere some of many people’s questions. I know you just made things clearer in my head. You know, when everyone puts in a piece here and a piece there on different locations of this entire site. Some bits of info get jummbled up and for some of us confusing. Sometimes if I don’t see the whole pie right in front of me at once, my brain just does not grasp the entire set up of the situation. I think what you’ve just said is very clearly put and it has truly helped me. I thank you for that. I have some questions, I don’t think this would be the place to ask, but I think they are questions that both you and Barry and perhaps a few others might be able to clear up for me. They are in reguards to pinning down what specific tribe one would be related to. I don’t doubt my Blackfoot, but I can’t see through the murk of the geneology to pin down where I belong. Can I possibly touch base with you both on this matter? I think if Kerry and I didn’t have a couple of folks in our lineage who seem to have no proof of existance it would really help. But, these are like Impenatrable vaults of info I can’t come up with (these folks in my lines.)
ADillard, I have to thank you again for your post on this matter. I think you’ve gotten some genuinely honest to goodness information here from Crystal and Barry that you can pretty much bank on!;) I think They’ve both been quite helpful, don’t you? Love & Light, Lynella.
With that, I’m off to see if my brother has put anything in my Blackfoot Church Thread!
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