- This topic has 3 voices and 9 replies.
-
Posts
-
Hello everyone
Yes, another David Thacker Thacker….. My name is Karl Thacker, from West Des Moines, Iowa. David Thacker & Sally LeMay should be my 4th gr-grandparents.
The line is:
Unknown & Mary Branham Dalton
David Thacker & Sally LeMay
Thomas Benjamin Thacker & Nancy Ann Vaughn
Thomas Benjamin Thacker & Miranda Ellen Coffey
Thomas Elton Thacker & recently became unknown….
Wilmer C Thacker Sr & Evelyn DeCoursey
James M Thacker Sr & Nancy R Hensley
Me
I’ve turned-over the same rocks as everyone else. Chased-down the same dead-ends as everyone else. Been as happy to find Terry Snyder’s ‘The Thacker Chronicles’ as everyone else. But I do have what may be a twist of my own. It would appear I am not truly ‘a Thacker’. With current testing at 67 markers, my YDNA ties to a Swift and several Sanders. This includes two Knuckles who also tie to Sanders instead of Nuckolls/Knuckles, plus a few Girard/Gerard. The genetic distances, target members of other families/ancestors, etc. point towards this not being a recent event. I tie to no other Thackers on YDNA. My suspicions lay with David & Sally’s son Thomas as being when this took place.
If records are accurate, Thomas was born out of wedlock December 1809. While that alone is not unique, it has never made sense to me that David and Sally then did not marry until 1816. And what did they do upon marrying 7 years later? Start spitting out children. I just don’t buy it. There are notes that David served in the war of 1812, then again in the early 1820s, and perhaps that explains things, but I need to go back and review every single record and timeframe assigned to his being in the military.
I have seen a Virginia prison index list for behavior records on Henry & David Thacker in 1809. Was (my) David in prison in 1809? Is it possible for him to even be Thomas Benjamin’s father? But who is Henry Thacker? The only Henry Thacker I’ve found so far was born in 1799 to David & Eunice Thacker in Massachusetts, and obviously he would be too young. (That same couple also had a David, born in 1797)
Right now I’m focusing more on my DNA. I’ve been very fortunate to have connected with Charla Murphy, Vivian Markley, Sandi Koscak, and Justin Sanders in relation to the Sanders/Saunders part of the puzzle. All 4 have been great in helping me. I’ve also been in touch with one of my ‘matches’, a Steven Knuckles, and hopefully we can use our unique situations to help triangulate each other’s mystery event/person. I will say this- Steven has mentioned it is believed his situation occurred in mid-1800s Missouri. This somewhat corresponds with (my) Thackers moving west into Kansas and Missouri. What if David’s Thomas was really a Sanders and the Sanders blood moved West with Thomas’ Thomas? Just one of the theories. And nothing seems too wild for this line….
I need to pursue YDNA testing on other Thackers, especially other descdents of David and his Thomas. Would also love to find a claimed descendent of Robert Thacker, David’s supposed brother. However, a couple of Thacker forum pushes for sharing to GEDMatch.com and YSEARCH.org has been met with dead silence.
I should mention, my profile matches to Swift better than some Swift.
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/swift/results
I need to be going back and reviewing how my (newly received) YDNA matches to Sanders profiles. Swift allowed me to join their project, but since my name is not Sanders, that group did not want to approve me joining their project site….
Karl
Welcome to Saponitown. I can’t help with your Thackers, Sanders, Swift but I am a Dalton. How, when and where does Mary Branham Dalton fit into your tree? I may be able to add some info to that line.
Keep having fun
Ken
Hello Ken
Mary Branham Dalton should be my 5 gr-grandmother, as the mother of David Thacker. Annis Branham (Mary’s sister) and John Lemay should also be my 5 gr-grandparents as the parents of David’s wife, Sally Lemay.
Mary being called David’s mother is (to my knowledge) based solely on two deeds- One from Mary leaving land to a list she refers to as ‘my children’. This listing includes Daltons, as well as a David Thacker and Robert Thacker. I have personally never seen the deed, nor even a transcribe of it. I would love to see a copy of the original. At the very least the transcribe details.
Then, an 1833 deed involves the selling of land by “David Dalton, Malichi Dalton, James Dalton, William Dalton, Lucy Dalton, Polly Shepherd, Robert Thacker and David Thacker, land which descended to them by their mother Mary Dalton”
about half-way down page: http://trevilians.com/deeds/deed35.html
Several questions arise from these deeds…. What is the date of the deed leaving the land to the children? How does that date compare to the birthdates of David and Robert (supposedly 1795 and 1800 respectively)? How does that date, as well as the Thacker birthdates, compare to the known birthdates of the children of Mary Branham Dalton and her husband John Dalton? Besides the children, who else were listed on the original deed? I do not even recall if John and Mary divorced or if John had died prior to David and Robert’s birth.
I also want to know more about the death of Peggy/Polly/Margaret Branham. When Benjamin Branham make his will in 1794, the listing includes ‘..Annis Lemay, Mary Dolton, Peggy Sanders…’ However, when the will is proved, their husbands are listed. (Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the exact text right now) Why were the daughters mentioned by their married names when the will was written, but their husbands listed when it was proved?
Jogdelog Karl,
I ran your DNA sample against my family on Gedmatch. Saw no match to my kit M223631, but am seeing IBS matches between you, my mother, my uncle and my sister. You match my mother M103622 and uncle M026233 on 5.3cM of Chr1. You match my sister M217791 on 6.7cM of Chr17.
We have no known Thacker ancestors. Reading Thacker threads here Freeman is one name that is associated with Thacker and comes up among my DNA cousins. I suspect Vivian Markley shares common ancestors with us on my grandfather’s mother’s Marshall line.
I’m still getting more info into GenomeMate, after I have more I may be able to find others who share the above segments.
peace
-Marc
So looks like your location was Louisa Co,VA in 1830s. My lines were in Carroll and Floyd (old Grayson) at that time but Louisa a generation before…. sure there is a connection…. I’ll do some digging as time permits.
I see a lot of familiar surnames in the page of Louisa Co deeds that you posted.
MarcSnelling;38306 wrote: Jogdelog Karl,
I ran your DNA sample against my family on Gedmatch. Saw no match to my kit M223631, but am seeing IBS matches between you, my mother, my uncle and my sister. You match my mother M103622 and uncle M026233 on 5.3cM of Chr1. You match my sister M217791 on 6.7cM of Chr17.
We have no known Thacker ancestors. Reading Thacker threads here Freeman is one name that is associated with Thacker and comes up among my DNA cousins. I suspect Vivian Markley shares common ancestors with us on my grandfather’s mother’s Marshall line.
I’m still getting more info into GenomeMate, after I have more I may be able to find others who share the above segments.
peace
-Marc
Hello Marc, and thanks for the information. I’ll be perfectly honest- using DNA to search our relatives is very new to me. Until 6-7 months ago when I found out my line comes from the Melungeon, the DNA part was just a novelty to me. And further still, until 2-3 months ago when I found out my paternal line is not truly Thacker, I had not even taken it past 12 markers. In other words, I’m still trying to learn and sort out exact what I can do and how it is done. For example, I fully admit I have no idea how to use the Chromosome Browser on FTDNA to aid in my search. It’s part of the plans for this coming weekend.
I was just recently pointed to GenomeMate, and so I am learning it as well. I have been able to find a couple of interesting contacts and perspective relatives with its assistance and the GED tree comparison.
Yes, Ken, my Thacker direct ancestors at least were in Louisa until around the 1830s. You know…. this just made me think of something further on my ‘David isn’t Thomas’ father’ theory. David states throughout his life that he was born in 1795. Thomas was born in 1809. David would have been 14 at the time. While that is certainly not unheard of, it’s just one more piece of the puzzle whose edges aren’t quite smooth….
I am more and more convinced that David was not Thomas’ father.
I’m fairly new too DNA as well, been at a for a year or two, just learning as I go. I haven’t found and DNA studies for descendants in my family so have been doing it myself with willing family members.
IBD and IBS mean Identical By Descent and Identical By State. There is some grey area, but basically matches over 7cM are considered IBD. This means the matching segment is inherited by two people from a common ancestor.
IBS matches are typically in the 5-7cM range. These could still be IBD as well, perhaps to a common ancestor in a genealogical time-frame. Or it could be just IBS, meaning it is part of an old population. The theory is that certain segments of DNA persist over long periods of time because they give some sort of evolutionary advantage.
A way a segment can become common is through a population bottleneck – when a population becomes small for some reason – disease, famine or isolation – like a small group moving to new land. When this happens many more people have common segments. You would have to trace back past the bottleneck to find the common ancestor – this is IBS.
So in the context of SaponiTown if you find an IBD match you are likely have a common ancestor within 10 generations. If you have an IBS match it could also be a common ancestor in the last 10 or so generations, or the common ancestor could be further back than can be identified with genealogy.
Studying our families DNA focused me more into this group. Before taking any samples I expected to find the most relations in Indiana where my mother’s family has been for 7 generations. Yet the most matches were in NC/VA. With enough samples some clues to these genealogy mysteries might start to emerge.
There is another match to our shared segment to triangulate us against, M183205 on Gedmatch. The segment my mother and uncle share with her DNA sample is 11.9cM so clearly IBD. This would suggest to me that your match to my mother and uncle is a small IBD not IBS.
It takes some work to find these matches. It requires going into 23andMe, GedMatch, FTDNA, and Ancestry webpages, opening all your matches and cut and pasting them into Genome Mate. For this search I added 1000 Gedmatch records to my mother’s database. Once you’ve imported data into Genome Mate it shows a graphic of matches on each chromosome and it’s easy to see groupings.
I will contact the other public DNA match to see if she has a tree we can compare against. From looking at ours I’m wondering if the connection is Cunningham. Your Emaline Cunningham 1821-1875 and my Anna Cunningham 1822-1913.
First, Hello Marc. I didn’t see/realize you had replied. Definitely something to look at, especially the Cunningham comment in light of the next part of my post…..
My Swift YDNA mystery has been somewhat solved. Well, the ‘When’ has… Just need to sort out the ‘Who’….
Through cM levels and name/profile matches on Ancestry DNA, as well as comparison of files on GEDMatch, it has become obvious there is a distinct break between offspring of my grandfather, Wilmer C Thacker, b 1911, and offspring of two of his sisters. Quite simply- those from my grandfather’s lines do not link to the Vinton County, Ohio and Louisa County, VA, Thackers or related names, while those of my grandfather’s sisters DO link to Ohio, Virginia, etc. In fact, they are linking to Gibson, etc.
My grandparents, Thomas Elton Thacker and Miranda Ellen (aka Ella) Coffey (Thacker) divorced within a short time after Wilmer’s birth. Perhaps this is related… Anyway, the lines are distinct. This is where my paternal line’s YDNA begins its link to Swift. Now I need to figure out the ‘Who’….. I’m rather disappointed that this would imply my tie to the Melungeon… Saponi…. Monacan…. comes to an end. Though I do still have a bit of Native American and Sub-Saharan African in my blood.
Thank you to everyone who provided feedback. Even I am not able to benefit from your information, the next person to come along certainly may.
And I’m still searching on several lines that stretch back to the 1600-1700s Colonies, so feel free to run comparison on my profiles below.
One note of new information from above: David Thacker, abt 1790-1795, was NOT THE FATHER of Thomas Benjamin Thacker, 1809. Civil War pension investigation deposition statements by both family and friends say they were half-brothers. Terry Snyder has information posted to her Thacker Chronicles blog.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
