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First of all, thank you so much for allowing me to join the forum.
I just recently discovered that I was related to the Collins family and I’m fairly sure they are related to the Collins family who were somehow tied into the Saponi and Melungeon people.
My ancestor is Martin Collins, b. abt 1795 NC. I’m unsure of his parentage, but suspect he is the son of Martin Collins, born in the 1760s and supposedly the son of Samuel Collins. This Samuel Collins is said to be the father of Ambrouse, Vardy, George, Thomas, David, Martin, and Valentine Collins.
My particular Martin Collins married Charity Brown, daughter of Hezekiah Brown & Elizabeth Skidmore. I actually think Elizabeth Skidmore may be of Indian descent as well.
Does anyone have any information on Martin Collins, son of Samuel Collins?
Any help would be appreciated.
Mike:D
Welcome Mike,
…If you search the forum for Collins, you are assured to find oodles of info on the line. Where are your Skidmores from? My father’s step father’s side were related to Skidmores, I think WV.
Shirley
Mike,
My G-G-Grandfather was Martin Collins. He Was married to Elizabeth ???.
His daughter, Icy was married to my G-Grandfather, Alfred P. Gibson. Martin was a Baptist minister. He was listed in the 1830 Hawkins Co. Tennessee census as a Free Person of Color (FPC) His mom and dad were James and Lexy Collins. The last I found on Martin was him living with his son Arthur in Jonesville Virginia. They are considered to be some of the original Melungeons.
Cleland:)
In studying about the Coree Indians, the tribe it was thrown in with, the Machapunga, must be studied as well. Several other Indian tribes on the verge of extinction like the Hattoras and Roanoak settled with them too. There was a reservation set aside for them, which they proceeded to start selling off sections immediately. Within about 50 years the reservation was no more. The local authorities had a job training program for the young. It was not just for Indians, it was also used with orphans. A child as young as 9 would be apprenticed with a local person to learn a trade and be there until the age of 21.
The apprenticeship system could give someone jobs skills but it took away the learning of theri own culture. To me, it’s not surprising that the Indians assimilated into the local white population when the bond of culture/community became weak.
COLLINS Collings considered the same name
This was on the Coast of NC, around Hyde County.
Apprentice Reference; March Term, 1765: Hyde County Court Minutes,
1764-1791 (Part I).
March Term, 1765
“A Motion of Patrick Gordon ordered that William Gibbs be summoned to
next court to Show Cause if any he has why Cati Collings An Indian Women
now in his Service Should not be set free.”
Note: there is a break in the records until 1767 at this point, so that it
was not possible to follow the course of the action.
A couple months ago I met a young Gibson woman from Hancock County,TN. She was very beautiful. Long straight black hair, dark eyes, with light brown skin tone. A very striking feature was her deep-set eyes. Her eyes were really recessed into her face/skull. It did not detract from her beauty, but was readily noticed. A fine example of Melungeon I thought. We talked about a Collins I had met who had tried to get a movie made about Melungeons. I never asked her if she was, and she never said if she was. Later I met her companion seperately and asked if she was Melungeon. He solidly assured me that she was not a Melungeon, that she came from a fine family, had a collage education and a good job.:confused: Her friend was not Melungeon. The stigma still exists and so do the denials.
On the other hand, her companion may have been operating under a different definition of what, to him, constituted a Melungeon. When I visited Hancock Co., there was, to me, a clear socio-economic componant to the definition, not just a racial one.
That is, if you were a Gibson that lived in the Newman’s Ridge area, had little money or education, you might be a Melungeon; if you were a Gibson living in Sneedsville, with a good job and a college education, you might not be considered a Melungeon by the general community.
It’s like some friend of mine from one of the other NC Indian communities who would tell you flatly that they are full blood Indians, even tho’ they have blond hair and light skin. What they mean is that all four of their grandparents were considered to be Indian in their community. They aren’t trying to be deceptive, they are simply stating the truth as they understand it, even if it looks otherwise.
All of that is certainly not to say that White Hawk is wrong in his interpretation; He probably is correct, I’m just suggesting another angle to it.
I believe we both have the same ‘take’ on the encounter. It was physically obvious that she was Melungeon. That she was not considered Melungeon by her friend is due to as you say the, “socio-economic componant to the definition” It has been widely reported that in the not too distant past, if a person had money and is of good social status, he was not considered or treated as a Melungeon.
One literary source about Melungeons that I believe has not been mentioned on Saponitown is the work of Mildred Haun, who I think was from Cocke Co. TN. Her collection “Hawk’s Done Gone” contains a short story, “Melungeon Colored,” about a baby born to “white” parents but having the ancestral coloring. If I’m not mistaken, somebody took the baby from its mother and killed it. (I may be mistaken; I read that well over 30 years ago. And, of course, it is a work of fiction.) Anyway, it was a STRONG stigma, early in the 20th century.
My great grandmother would not sit in the same room with my gggrandmother. My ggggrandmother looked NA. The family says it was the Indian that caused the split. They moved away from her family and had nothing to do with them. I remember in school hearing of a family whose mother would not visit the family of the husband’s sister, because they were Indian. Turns out that they were related to me, but my ggrandparent’s family would not talk about them. My mother did not know that they were related either as she grew up.
Techteach
Forest, White Hawk, and Pappy Dick,
I find your comments about Melungeon very interesting. Those older folks who were identified as being Melungeon, i.e. Martin Collins(a Baptist minister) Vardy Collins, Charles Gibson (a Revolutionary War Veteran) were listed in the Hawkins Co. Tennessee census as FPC, Free People of Color. FPC is a part of what identifies a Melungeon. Known descendants of Martin Collins are well educated and have held very important positions in government, Clerk and Master of the Courts ,City Commissioner, school teacher and Registered Nurse just to name a few. These folks have Phd, Master’s Degree and Bachlor’s Degree and identify themselves as Melungeon. Melungeon is not a race but includes a number of races, White, Native American and Black.
I would agree with what you’ve said there cthorpky. My only observations would be that (1) Melungeons are not a homogenous group, and so depending on where you are talking about and the specific family, they may have widely varying degrees of Indian, white or African ancestry. I would guess that some areas various families have little if any actual African or Indian ancestry. (2) Again, depending on where you are talking about, I would agree that today there are many folks who are acknowledging their Melungeon heritage that are well educated and well placed in society. A generation or two ago that might have been different, since to be Melungeon was, at one time almost by definition meant you were poor and on the fringe of society. (Not that there were not individual exceptions)
The existance of gatherings such as First Union and the Unions that followed shows tha many people today are interested in claiming a heritage as Melungeon. I imagine that most of their grandparents would have been pretty irate if the wrong person called them by that term, however.
You are absolutely right about Melungeon not being a race, in my opinion. Defining what DOES constitute a Melungeon however, I think has varied considerably over the years and from place to place. Same goes for what defines an Indian, for that matter. I’d agree with you that being able to trace your family line back to someone identified as a FPC at some point in E. Tenn/Western Va. is a pretty strong componant of that Melungeon definition. It’s clear to me from some of the court cases that there was no universal agreement in many places over who belonged in the group, and I believe that in many places, individual Melungeons were able to achieve moderate social status in their own communities through either hard work, family conections, or force of personality.
I would also say, as an observation unrelated to the last post, that the term Melungeon today has been given such a broad definition by some writers as to make it almost meaningless. When you begin trying to include groups like the Lumbee in the Melungeon catagory, I think you are stretching it a bit too far.
I’d be interested to hear Pat’s thoughts, if she’s around.
As you guys can see from my picture, I do not look like the current accepted appearance of a Melungeon. But my lineage from both my father’s Collins’s & mother’s Mullins’s can be traced back to core Melungeon groups. Including Griffin Collins. I have attended 2 Melungeon Unions and done research in VA, TN & KY and talked to numerous people/relatives about Melungeon’s. Have visited Sneedville and Newman’s Ridge, spent a whole day with Mrs. Johnnie Rhea ( a descendant of Uriah Gibson ) and Newman’s Ridges local records and research keeper and to be honest, I believe I am a Melungeon ( whatever the definition means) but I can’t prove that! I do know that talking to my older relatives, who were mostly raised and still live in Wise Co., VA and Letcher Co.,KY the word Melungeon was unheard of until Brent Kennedy’s revelation. Also our oral family history always stated Cherokee Indian on my Collins’s side and Blackfoot Indian on my Mullins’s side. I have siblings and relatives that certainly look NA, some almost look Africa American, but then alot of them look Irish/Scottish.
My father’s generations ( he was 16 years older than my mother, born in 1915 ) grew up without any predjudical treatment that any will admit to, however his Mother was a Schoolcraft/Hayes, German and Irish, so the lighter looks were there, although my father was black haired with grey eyes, he was very fair skinned. Now, my mother’s childhood was totally different ( she was Mullins on both sides) and she was treated differently. That Mullins’s line has all of the topical Melungeon features. My mother had dark auburn hair, grey eyes and olive skinned. I can trace it back to Ambrose Mullins of Bold Camp, VA , also a core Melungeon settlement.
I guess what I am trying to say is I don’t know what I am really, would love to prove it somewhat, but it wouldn’t change ME! I would still have shovel teeth, bump and also a mongollin spot, but with very light skin, blond hair and blue eyes. I went several years ago to the Blackfeet Indian reservation in MT, spend 5 days in the wilderness with a Blackfeet guide, horseback rode and even did a sweatlodge. My guide told me she thought I had Cherokee bone structure in my face and eyes, I can’t see it myself.
But, regardless of proving what I am, I would be proud of WHATEVER my lineage is, because it defines ME. NA, Melungeon, Portuguese, African or any other mixture ……………as the Melungeon motto states ” One People, All Colors”. We are all related.
This is sort of a response to White Hawk in post #5.
Once upon a time my wife and a friend of ours who was from East TN went to Sneedville to see the outdoor drama, “Walk Toward the Sunset: the Melungeon Story.” Today, while (of course) looking for something else, I ran across the program from the play. Also found a copy of the Hancock County Post for July 2, 1970 — I guess that’s when they went — with an article about Melungeons, including a picture that I’ll try to post here.
The caption of the photo (which is a little larger, but I couldn’t post that many bytes) says, “One of the prettiest Melungeons in Sneedville is Beatrice Collins, daughter of Minnie Collins.”
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