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It is fictitional, as is much of the Melungeon information that is out there now that proclaims it factual.
What is not understood is that my Adkins ancestors are the ones claimed to be Melungeon, by first and last name, location, etc. (so I am not just whistling Dixie here to hear a good tune), as are most of those mentioned, in most of the text found. Still they have you believe in surname connections, but say “if they fit”, however they will throw one of my ancestors in and say he was. Everyone they mention is, “isn’t”. It is a mularky. IMO
This is also the case with the Steele family I am related to as well. Many of the followers of these books who support Kennedy have it in their heads that this family was Melungeon also, which is simply not the case. The families said to be connected to the Carmelites are also part of the families in my maternal line. My research proves otherwise. About the only way they were connected was through friendship and not kinship.
What I find really absurd is the inclusion (mentioned in the previous post) of my ancestor as being Melungeon based on a land record. I am still trying to figure out how a land record proves ancestry. If land records proved ancestry then 100 years from now, someone will have some wildly concocted story about me based on where I live now, which would include that I was a Mexican African American with roots in India that came from Liverpool England, which simply is nothing short of being totally false.
Completely hilarious what others believe and try to use as documentation of a race of people. Some of which are connected directly to the guy who basically started it all a few years back with a book which has been discounted numerous times by numerous people, intentionally and unintentionally.
Ed Yancey wrote: If Columbus was a Jew that would be a surprise to known history and especially to Him. Columbus was a Christian and I interpret that he along with more than a few Christians of that period (Queen Isabella included) took a very strong position on Biblical teachings in the tradition of the Apostle Paul. If there was a mission to his exploration it was to propagate the gospel to all the world along with the discovery and yes profit that might be the result of such navigation. You must understand His beliefs would have not found favor with the then Roman Papal Church. He never received reward or noteriety because of His position many times and His position certainly did not promote the Papist doctrine of conversion which included subgigating or even killing “savages” to force them to be Christian. That position promoted the great inquisitions as well and enprisoned and killed many Pauline Christians like Columbus. I suppose there are some people out there who would believe alliens built the Empire State Building. I happen to know a lovely lady whose father was one of the architechs . The video though roughly done is quite moving and I believe the families and their history from the east moving to the west certainly testify to being among those mixed Native, european and possibly Spanish/Portuguese descendents that seem to fit quite well on this forum. Ed
Hey Ed,
I was just trying to make it through this thread for the first time and just saw your post here…I think this is interesting. Are you able to “elaborate” a little more on what the difference between those following Paul and the Pope was about or terminology to use to research such? I’ve never heard of anything like that before. Would those attitudes of the Pope be left over attitudes from the Crusades in any way?
Steve,
I’m reading through your posts and finding them fascinating and many of your family names were over in IN where I grew up and people said to be of Indian origin. I too hope you stick around.
I have no personal interest in proving or disproving the Melugeon Theory as I’ve never found one of my names on it. There is one thing, I definately did not have shovel teeth. (I lost them in an automobile accident). I know what they are because my youngest son has them and not my oldest. I got into feeling many friends teeth after learning of the phenomenon and true to it the whites and blacks didn’t have it and the Filipino, and Indians did. The people at the dental college accept it as fact also. I don’t have that large bump on my skull either. Mine is very flat. I guess based on my experience and personal samplings shovel teeth have been a marker of American Indians and Asians. Oh, the backs of my teeth were very flat in the back, not at all concave, with a tappering thickness up to my gum. Ahh! I remember them well! And my oldest son has teeth just like that. While the shovel teeth I’ve felt have no thicking toward the gumline and feel just like the bowl of a shallow spoon.
I have thought it was a commonly held belief on this site that many if not most Indians or Indians mixed with or married to whites were more often listed as white on censuses and sometimes mulatto if darker. I thought it was very rare for anyone to be listed as Indian who wasn’t living in Indian Territory or a reservation.
I don’t think a disease can be proof of ethnicity but it is a good thing to know what diseases are common to your own or suspected races to keep a look out for them when and if the symptoms arise it can be an aid to diagnosis so it’s not a bad thing to keep note of. Many diseases are much more prevalent in specific groups.
Actually, you can find shovel teeth in people from Great Britain, where I found records of it being mentioned. So it is found in the white population as well. I suppose there is exceptions here and there. But it was stated that no English have this dental feature, when in fact they do. At any rate, the MHA has a nice sized article stating that this physical trait, along with all others mentioned in the book by Kennedy, has absolutely nothing to do with proving Melungeon ancestry. But I do have shovel shaped teeth, as does my wife and kids. When I stated everyone has a bump, well everyone does, and not just the half the size of a golfball. Mine is virtually non-existant, but is there. Yet I have read where people state that they have a bump on the base of the skull, so therefore they are Melungeon, which is not the case according to the MHA (golfball or otherwise) and from the standpoint of good old Mother Nature.
Indiana is one area left to be researched, but I do find some of my ancestors’ descendants living there from time to time. Right now I am researching the Wayne County WV families, and thusly the families in White and Franklin County Illinois. I am also finding family ties in Grainger County Tennessee and Chowan County North Carolina. All these places are “Redlight” areas of Shawnee activity, with most of eastern Kentucky thrown in as well.
But again, quite a few of my family wound up in various areas in Indiana, and a few of my 1st and 2nd cousins reside in Indiana today, in the northern and southern portions of the state.
I’m from Newton Co. IN. the 2nd county down from Lake Michigan in the northwest corner of the state. Osburn and Hale caught my attention. I had a Curtis teacher with black hair. And there where Watts. That’s another thing, so many people there have black hair and brown eyes and it will be people w/ the surnames listed as Indian here all of the time. In NE there are alot! of people with red and blond hair and rarely black unless they are definately Indian. There are lots of Czechs and Germans here to explain that which leaves me wondering about all of the black hair in IN.
Can you give more info on where to find the info on shovel teeth in G Britain. I’m curious about the time period, location and prevelency…kind of wondering if it could still be associated with American Indians or Asians in Europe.
Perhaps you mentioned it and I’ve missed it, but what is the MHA Thanks…Dianne
Shovel shaped incisors is farily well across the board in most dental sites online, even in Great Britain. It is said the shovel shape is found primarily in Asian and American Indian, and to a lesser degree in European ancestry, but nothing to support the claim, nor to explain why almost every dental discriptive and diagram shows the incisors to be rounded in the front and scoop-like in the back. Simple Google research with the words incisors, shovel shaped incisors, teeth, etc. will pull up loads of information with a few from actual dentist offices in Great Britain which shows the incisors as rounded and scoop shaped. Generic descriptives online will just have a couple lines with “chisel shaped” in it. But one would think that if the Britsh have this as a descriptive of the incisors, being shovel shaped, that this is across the board.
In discussion with my current dentist, he states he has never heard of the term “Shovel Teeth” and upon my discription of the term he just laughed and said (not a direct quote, but the gist of what he said from memory) “Everyone these days seems to want to be a minority. There is nothing to that at all, all teeth are shaped that way in one degree or another depending on wear and how the teeth actually sit in the mouth ( how they sit in the mouth, correctly or incorrectly).”
One can also look at the models in dentist offices as well, which most often show the curvature or the incisors.
A few dentists I have been to in the distant past have had models of defects in human teeth (overbite, underbite, etc.) which may vary the shape of the teeth in the models, but I do not know for certain as that occured years ago during my “braces” period in my pre-teen years. So if one is to look, be certain of what model you are looking at.
No dentist or doctor I have talked to (I know plenty of both, being from a family that primarily works in the medical field. Such as my wife who is an RN for example and my family along with plenty of friends work in the medical field as well as dentistry), has any idea on all this Melungeon Physical Trait stuff, which in itself is informative of the misguided view that the the MHA has stated has no bearing on one being Melungeon.
The MHA is The Melungeon Heritage Association and can be found online, along with the statement from them mentioned on the site as well.
Well, you know there are a whole lot more Indians out here than in the mid-west, of the registered variety anyway. I’m currently having work done at the Dental College and one of the Students I saw had been in Chadron last summer serving the Indian community and definately knew of and talked about it with me. I go again Monday…probably get a root canal:( I’ll ask if they have models of actual teeth around. That should divert my attention.
Root canals are no fun. I had 2 root canals done on me in the past. Lost one (molar), and finally got the other crowned last year.
Research states that shovel teeth are found in Homosapian man, yet makes no distinction between one ethnic group or another, all discriptions and photos of teeth show curvature to the incisors, so it will be interesting to hear what you are told about it as well. I can only go by what I have researched and was told by the local dentists here in my area. If what is said about shovel teeth only being found in Native American and Asian groups, with lesser amounts in Europeans, it still would show that shovel teeth does exist in Britain. The next time I see my neighbors from England, I will ask them about it. They’ll probably think I am nuts, but if theirs are curved then it will show something supporting shovel teeth being in Britain as well. Just something I wouldn’t normally ask of them. Ha Ha
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